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Why is oestrogen moving up using Natpro??

by Laura
(MD)

I hope Joy can help with these numbers. I've been using Natpro religiously every day since March 2017. Here are my serum hormone lab comparisons from February 2017 and most recently from August using 400 (4 pumps in AM and 4 pumps in PM):

February:
Progesterone 1.1 ng/mL
Estradiol 67.9 pg/mL
Estrone 82 pg/mL
DHEA-Sulfate 134.3 ug/dL
Testosterone, serum 18 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(direct) 1.2 ug/dL

August:
Progesterone 4.8 ng/mL
Estradiol 115.3 pg/mL
Estrone 114 pg/mL
DHEA-Sulfate 172.4 ug/dL
Testosterone, serum 28 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(direct) .50 ug/dL

My progesterone is going up (slowly) but it seems everything else is too. Shouldn't everything else be moving downwards instead of upwards? My D3 was 79 in February, its now at 129. Magnesium stays at 5.2 mg/dL both February and August.

Any advise on what I may need to change would be so helpful or do I just need to give it more time?

Comments for Why is oestrogen moving up using Natpro??

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Aug 23, 2017
 Why is oestrogen moving up using Natpro??
by: Joy

Hi Laura

Not knowing your history or why you are using 400mg Natpro per day makes it difficult for me to reply in detail. What I can tell you is that your are progressing rather well. These results are very promising. How are you actually feeling?

Your progesterone:estradiol (E2) ratio is very encouraging. In February it was 16:1 and August it jumped to 42:1. It should be around 600:1 to feel really well as you probably know.

It is not the result of each hormone that is important, but rather the ratio between the two. Also were these tests taken at the same time of the month? This makes a difference as hormones fluctuate during the month.

Your D3 is at a good level, mine is around the same. You do not say how much D3 you are taking every day, but I suggest that you use 5,000iu's to maintain this level. The moment you miss a dose, levels will start to decrease. What about Vitamin K2 (MK-7)? Are you taking it? It is a very important co-factor when taking D3, as is magnesium.

Keep doing what you are doing to get your ratio up even further. If you are not taking K2, please do.

Keep going.
Aug 24, 2017
 Why is oestrogen moving up using Natpro??
by: Laura

Thank you Joy for responding.

I suffered with major hormonal imbalance and thyroid issues for years until I found this site.

Today, even though I am on a small amount of thyroid (T3) medication I do not believe that was the major problem. I believe it was low progesterone and with everything else that did to my body, it threw my thyroid off.

My symptoms were hair loss to the point I lost over half of it, fatigue, headaches, acid reflux and digestive issues (I had to go gluten free), blurry vision, itchy, crawling skin, allergies, constant watery eyes, major bloating in belly area although I'm rather skinny, basically all the telltale signs Wray always spoke about!

I've read this site from top to bottom and have relieved just about all my symptoms with Natpro. I feel very good although I sometimes still have hair loss issues. It's crazy, the slightest change in my progesterone regimen (like if I dab a little too much or even a little less), I notice a couple eyelashes fall out the next day or a few more hairs will fall from my head.

I do take Inositol and that has also helped. I started on 200mg of Natpro and my symptoms didn't budge much for a while so I double it and that's why I'm on 400mg today. I have been taking D3 5000iu for a couple of years. I take about 300mg of magnesium before bed and I also use the spray mag. occasionally. I have tried a combination D3 with K2 and it hurts my stomach A LOT even with food so I haven't taken any more of the K2. Any suggestions on a gentle K2?

I am encouraged by your reply in that my progesterone is moving up. I guess I just thought it would have moved up much more and knocked down those estrogen levels but I know everyone is different and I'll look more at the ratio next time.

I will continue as I am going but do you think it would be beneficial for me to add another pump AM and PM or will my level continue to move up with time?

Thank you for your advice and encouragement!! It keeps me going when I read the advice given all over this site!
Aug 24, 2017
 Why estrogen moving ...
by: Anonymous

I was very intrigued by your comments Laura. You presented your questions so clearly and calmly, and Joy's response was wonderful to read. She understands what those ratios mean, I don't, so it was helpful to read her response to your questions.

In addition to your progesterone protocol, may I suggest that you read about iodine for your thyroid. Dr. David Brownstein's books on the subject of thyroid and iodine are very helpful. I personally take 5% Lugol's for the thyroid and take a thyroid hormone supplement non prescription called Thyro Gold. I have found this to be very help. And of course, I take progesterone cream, over 300mg.

This website that Wray Whyte began is invaluable to thousands of women. I am very grateful for it. From what you have written Laura, that seems to be your belief as well. As Joy says, you are doing well.

I wish you continued good health and healing!
Aug 25, 2017
 Estrogen moving up.....
by: Laura

Thank you, Anonymous for your lovely response. I am very grateful for the feedback and advice.

I did not mention my thyroid numbers or my iodine numbers only because I was more interested in the estrogen moving up. With that said, I would like to mention that I do take iodine. My result back in February of this year was 30.7. This month, it is 94. Slightly above the top range but my doctor says not to change what I am doing. She has no concern that it is slightly high. I take 2 drops of 5% Lugols every morning with my compounded T3 slow release thyroid meds.

Thankfully, I have a wonderful doctor that listens to any suggestion I give her and is willing to work with me in my journey to stay healthy.

Again, thanks for your encouragement and suggestions and I wish you a long and healthy journey.
Aug 27, 2017
 estrogen moving..
by: Anonymous

That sounds great Laura, your taking the Lugol's! I think iodine is crucial for all sorts. Not only is the thyroid supported but the breasts, ovaries and our myriad cells.

It's wonderful that you have found a doctor who will listen to you listening to your body! More and more I think practitioners are coming to the conclusion that what they learned in med schools just may not be all there is to know. I too would not go to anyone who isn't holistic minded.

It sounds like you are doing wonderfully! I wish you all the best on your journey to regaining balance. The body can heal! I believe this, even with the sometimes seemingly impossible challenges we face. It's okay to feel this. It's okay to just want to cry and let it all out. Accept the challenges even when they seem impossible to face. Breathe into them and say "okay". For some mysterious reason, something takes us another step forward. That is how I found this website.

Believe!
Aug 28, 2017
 Why is oestrogen moving up using Natpro??
by: Joy

Hi Laura

Thanks for clearing up a few things. Most of your adverse symptoms were due to excess estrogen. I call it the "estrogen monster" because that is exactly what it is! Crawling sensation could be peripheral neuropathy, have you by any chance been tested for this? Progesterone can help with this if this is the case. Diabetics also experience this. Have you been tested for Insulin Resistance? Progesterone is neuroprotective, increasing myelinisation. It's also a potent analgesic, so too is it's metabolite allopregnanolone. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17543391

I am so pleased that most of your symptoms have cleared. What I find rather fascinating is that the very next day you notice your eye lashes falling out, that is mega quick and quite a reaction. Especially when you say that this happens with a 'little dab too much or too little'. You must be ultra sensitive. I have never heard of that before. I can understand this happening over a longer period of time. Perhaps the thyroid has something to do with that.

I do not agree with the combination D3 and K2 at all, I am not surprised that it hurts your tummy. If 5,000iu's of D3 is being taken, how much K2 is being taken? One only needs 100mcg of K2, I so wish that they wouldn't bring out combos! K2 is vital, the magnesium page that I gave you explains it's role, it must not contain any soy! Do try to see if you can take it again but I suggest the ones mentioned on the page. In order for the D3 protocol to work effectively, K2 and magnesium must be taken.

I am pleased to read that you are addressing your thyroid. I believe we all need to take iodine drops whether we have thyroid issues or not as we are all deficient in it. Have you viewed Dr David Brownstein's video. It is excellent, perhaps it will be of some use to you. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afZg2jzHuCs. I also take 2 drops of Lugol's 5% and I do not have a problem with my thyroid, I take it as a precautionary measure as I know just how deficient we can get without it and how important it is for all of us, men and women. As anonymous said, iodine is crucial.

Take care.



Aug 28, 2017
 Why is oestrogen moving up using Natpro??
by: Laura

Joy,

Thank you for responding. The knowledge you have is amazing and so very helpful to me. The combo D3/K2 I have been taking is made by Zhou Nutrition. It has D3 5,000IU and K2(MK-7) 90mcg. It is free of gluten, soy, milk, eggs, fish, shellfish, tree nuts, peanuts and wheat. When I finish this bottle, I will buy my D3 and K2 separately. I started up taking it again but this time in the middle of my meal instead of afterwards and it does not bother my stomach as much.

My doctor has ordered a pelvic ultrasound just as a precaution because I am in menopause and since I do not take estrogen and I should not be producing any, she was a little surprised that my estrogen has moved up. I know a lot of factors play a role in this so I am really not concerned. I will have the ultrasound done just to make sure all is fine.

I am called a "sensitive flower" by my doctor. My hormone receptors seem ultra sensitive and I have no idea why that is. I did an experiment a few days ago. I have a bottle of Prometrium 100mg pills in it from last year that another dr had prescribed that I never used and I cut one open and applied to the vaginal area at night with the 400 daily Natpro for three days in a row. My eyelashes did not fall. I would never take these pills orally as I know the problems they have. From this experiment, it is clear to me now that I must just need more progesterone and I will order and apply more Natpro in my next order.

I really don't think my thyroid is the issue with my hair. I am on a compounded thyroid medication along with the iodine and we have experimented with a higher dose of T3 (because of my hair/eyelash issue) and I cannot tolerate it. Also, my thyroid numbers seem optimal at each 6 month check but after seeing the response from Anonymous above, maybe I need to add T4 (I notice Anonymous takes Thyro Gold) and since I only take T3 -- maybe I need that T4 balance.

Wow. I learn so much here....take care!
Dec 12, 2017
 Why is oestrogen and dhea also moving up with Natpro
by: Laura

Hi, I would like to follow up on my original post above.

I am now in the stages of slowly reducing Natpro. I eventually dosed up to 600/day to combat bloating and hot flashes and hopefully bring my progesterone level up. As you can see from above labs, at the time, I was at 400/day of Natpro and my oestrogen and dhea were also moving up along with the progesterone number and it was concerning to me.

I then started to get redness in my scalp at the higher amounts of progesterone that would not go away (almost like streaks of red all over my scalp) and also started losing hair at my temples and on top (like male patterned baldness) when before I would only ever experience diffuse (all-over hair loss) at times. I now have considerably less hair.

I am concerned that the rising in the other hormones, especially dhea has caused me to now have this male pattern baldness-type hair loss and that the high amounts of progesterone is what is causing the rise in the other hormones. Can this be possible? I am at 175 Natpro per day now and want to go down to 100.

I know you say progesterone/estrogen should be 600:1. Is this saliva results or blood serum? If I am at a serum 42:1, how in the world will I ever get up to 600:1 using 100 per day and especially now that I am reluctant to raise dose when other hormones are raising with progesterone? I certainly don't want to lose more hair.

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