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What if my period is not a true period and stopping progesterone causes a miscarrage?

by Mrs A
(UK)

Hi Wray,

I have a pressing question for which I would very much appreciate any insight. I previously suffered from stage 7 adrenal fatigue, which didn't help my progesterone production. After a few months of treatment with natural adrenal glandulars I felt better but there were some symptoms that didn't go away such as post ovulatory inflammation and migraines, which faded away when I got my period. My cycles are pretty regular.

I started on natural progesterone a few months ago and those inflammatory symptoms almost went away completely at 15mg per day (I don't think I took enough progesterone).

The thing is I am trying to conceive baby number 2 and this is our first month of trying. Post ovulation this month I have been getting lots of pregnancy symptoms such as nausea and pain, bloating, etc. I upped my progesterone to around 25mg per day yesterday, from 15mg, and the symptoms stopped overnight. I'm currently 8 days past ovulation and I have a 14 day luteal phase.

I am worried because I might start my period when it is due in a week and think that I didn't get pregnant when in fact I am pregnant, and if I stop the progesterone like I usually do when I get my period, I could cause a potential miscarriage. Should I continue the progesterone through my period in case I do get a positive pregnancy test result a few days after my period/bleeding, even if it means messing up my cycle that month? I'm so confused!

Thank you for your insight!

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Feb 03, 2012
 What if my period is not a true period and stopping progesterone causes a miscarrage?
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A You are right, don't stop the progesterone. If you're not pregnant, your period will come. The amount of progesterone you're using is so low it won't affect it. You need to use between 400-600mg/day to stop bleeding. Your symptoms are those experienced in early Pregnancy. They are also the same symptoms experienced when first starting progesterone or when increasing it. In every case it's the initial stimulatory effect progesterone has on oestrogen, but does pass if enough is used. For more info see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. I'm pleased the progesterone helped, but amazed so low an amount did. I normally recommend 100-200mg/day, as I've found too low an amount worsens symptoms. Progesterone does help migraines, see here, here, here, here, here and here. It also helps adrenal stress too. These first secrete progesterone, which they then convert into cortisol. If stressed they tend to rob other sources, notably the ovaries, which upsets the reproductive cycle. In fact stress can stop ovulation, it can also cause miscarriages too. You live in the UK, please have a vitamin D test done. It's such a critical nutrient, needed for ovulation, conception, a successful pregnancy, and most important for the health of the foetus, see here, here, here, here, here and here. Continued below.
Feb 03, 2012
 What if my period is not a true period and stopping progesterone causes a miscarrage? Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A And a further one here. These are excellent videos to watch too, see here and here. A lack is also involved in miscarriages, see here, here and here. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Another nutrient you could consider is taurine, also vital for the health of the foetus, see here, here and here. Take care Wray
Feb 03, 2012
 Thank you Wray!
by: Anonymous

Thank you so very much Wray for taking the time to respond to my question. You are so kind and your knowledge and help is priceless.

I don't have that much progesterone at home to make up the amount you have suggested but I do have some cream in the post and will up the dosage as soon as it arrives.

I am taking 6,000IUs of Vitamin D per day (since the last couple of weeks)and feel so much better for it. I could up it to 10,000IU as I understand some people with autoimmune conditions (like I have) have conversion issues and there is hardly any sunlight here in the UK at the moment. I will take your advice and get my levels checked asap.

I will thoroughly comb through all of those links you posted here for me, thank you so much!

After having a good read of some of your web pages (I intend to go through the whole site) I saw how little I am taking compared to your recommended dosage. I read your response to a question regarding the Dr.Lee v Dr. Dalton dosage recommendations after I had sent you my question. I am also surprised to have had such relief from such a small dose. I was unable to chew solid food or walk post ovulation due to fatigue in my muscles. Now I am riding a bike with my 13kg son in a 14kg trailer attached to the bike with groceries in the trailer trunk too! The improvement happened in just the second cycle of progesterone drops. I'm sure that the combination with the glandulars in the mix helped some and created good alchemy!

I am switching to the cream as soon as it arrives in the post. I didn't know about Natpro when I ordered (I bought Serenity's original formula), but after learning about Natpro and also seeing that you get more progestrone for your buck, I will try Natpro once my Serenity runs out.

Thank you again Wray and lots of love to you!!!
Feb 04, 2012
 Thank you Wray!
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A I'm so pleased the info was of help. I'm not suggesting you increase to the amount I recommend, if the amount you are using is helping. Only that I was surprised it did! If you do increase it, please be aware of Oestrogen Dominance, as this can occur when increasing. I'm delighted you're taking that much vitamin D, and it's remarkable how much better one feels for it. It's dismaying how few know about it, the UK has such low levels of sunlight. But particularly Scotland, with 50% cloud cover during the year, see here. I wasn't aware you had an autoimmune condition, I thought it was severe adrenal fatigue. But it's interesting you should mention this, as all autoimmune diseases have low vitamin D levels. Which makes me suspect they are not 'autoimmune' at all, but due to a lack of vitamin D. It affects 2600 genes, often the damage is done while in utero, resulting in what is now known as 'the foetal origin of adult disease'. For instance MS, which is classified as one, turns out to be caused by a vitamin D deficiency according to the latest study. Scotland has the highest rate of MS in the world, it makes one think! Incidentally, progesterone is effective for MS too. I'm also delighted the myopathy has gone, I had that too. After the birth of my daughter, very badly, and during Peri-menopause too. A lack of progesterone and vitamin D causes it! See here and here and here. Unfortunately this last doesn't even have an abstract, I had to buy the paper so can't give you the link. But I have copied a portion from it which I'm giving you, I'm sure strictly illegal! See….."We report about a 41-year old woman who was suffering from a general muscle weakness since her early childhood....From July 1998 until July 1999 the patient was treated with progesterone suppositorium 0.4 g once a day from the 14th to the 25th day of the menstrual cycle. In July 1999 her gait had improved significantly and she could get up from a chair more easily, even her ability to walk up and down stairs had improved....Progesterone dosage was increased from 400 mg to 600 mg. In January 2001 the patient reported enthusiastically about the improvement she had gained from progesterone-therapy. The patient reported a clear increase in strength in all affected muscle groups resulting in dramatic functional improvement." Continued below.
Feb 04, 2012
 Thank you Wray! Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A Then in 2006 the first trials on TBI were published, showing IV progesterone as the only substance which effected recovery. But a further study found by adding vitamin D it increased the benefits of progesterone. I feel so strongly about this, that I wish the authorities would consider giving IV progesterone and vitamin D to all people with compromised immune systems. Thank you for considering Natpro, and yes it is cheaper than most. Please let me know how you get on with it. In fact you might like to get hold of a friend of mine in London, who stocks both Natpro and vitamin D, she feels as strongly as I do about the combo. She can be contacted here. Take care and hugs to you too! Wray
Feb 04, 2012
 Autoimmune / Diabetes...
by: Mrs. A

Thank you Wray for clarifying the dosage for me, I must have had a moment of brain fog! I read over your comment and understood you finally. I am interested in increasing the dose to a higher level than the small amounts I am taking as I feel a significant leap of improvement from every 5mg extra I take!

As I am so sensitive to progesterone at such small increments, it could be that my symptoms are oestrogen dominance from the stimulatory effect rather than pregnancy symptoms. I'm interested in dosing up past that threshold! It's all very hard to tell at this point and I have a few more days before I can take a pregnancy test. I did notice my temps are dipping on my chart and I am feeling more low grade depression with the temp dips. Before trying to conceive this month I was getting very depressed post ovulation, as in I was obsessing over the fact I will suddenly die and leave my child behind! I don't know why but I got like this EVERY time post ovulation and cry for days. This month I haven't had a single episode of this and I feel great. I don't know if it is because I'm making more progesterone because I could be pregnant or if it is because of the very small amount I increased in the progesterone drops. I can't see how a few mg extra will do so much good.

I will increase my vitamin D even more, I think I will take more in the region of 10,000 IU. I'm half way through the one hour video of Dr. Bruce Hollis. It is so interesting!!

Also the connection you made with vitamin D and autoimmune disorders; I'm so with you on that. The more I dig into this the more evident it seems that vitamin D is the root of this. I have 'suspected' Hashimoto's (not confirmed through lab work, just by symptoms, by a functional medicine practitioner. My antibodies were so depleted that they wouldn't show up in the lab work), I have had rheumatic swelling and pain since I was a child, plus a lupus-looking butterfly rash on my face, hair loss, wide spread inflammation...basically all of these symptoms don't come at once, they kind of rotate, so I know I am auto immune in several expressions. I am also severely sensitive to gluten, which became evident after my son was born (he is the same). I wonder if a life long diet on gluten whacked my adrenals out? My UK practitioner has never seen someone with worse adrenals than me and he's a respected specialist in the field for decades!

Continued...
Feb 04, 2012
 Autoimmune / Diabetes...
by: Mrs. A

Continued...

After my son was born I was diagnosed with diabetes but upon further investigation they couldn't tell if I was actually diabetic, although I failed the blood sugar test. They couldn't figure out why I came to my test that morning extremely hypoglycemic and then shot to diabetic levels after they gave me the glucose. (I can hear your thoughts on the low progesterone as you read this!) They ran various tests. I tried to tell my endo that I become disabled two weeks of the month but he refused to accept there was a hormonal link (what gives?!?!?) and insisted I had a pancreatic tumor, which scans did not reveal.

After I started seeing a practitioner in the UK who specialises in the adrenals and thyroid, my blood sugars stabilised after taking the glandulars, so I pretty much don't get high blood sugars any more and so avoided needing insulin, which my endo wanted to give me. Then finally the progesterone supplementation was the last piece of the puzzle as far as getting my life back to normal again.

I actually thought I had MS due to the numbness I was getting and the terrible tremors I had, but those symptoms have all gone.

I'm trying to reduce my adrenal supps but my body freaked out yesterday as I reduced them too fast (hot and cold sweats and shaking, feeling disorientated/addisonian crisis coming on). I did test at the cusp of stage 7 adrenal fatigue so those supps are a major piece of the puzzle for me. I've had a few adrenal crashes in the past that put me in bed for months. I'm currently 38 years old.

I'm sorry you also had the muscle weakness after you gave birth! I honestly thought I was the only one. I wish I knew more then that I know of now.

Thank you SO much for the further info and for the copy and paste of some of that paper (very, very interesting and enlightening!). You are an amazing woman and truly a Wray (of light!). Thank you for your precious time.

Kindest Regards and Big Hugs...

Mrs A
Feb 05, 2012
 Autoimmune / Diabetes...
by: Wray

Mrs A You could well be right about the effects of oestrogen dominance on each increment of progesterone. It's interesting you say you get so depressed after ovulation, with much crying. You probably know about the rise and fall of the hormones each month, but we do have a Graph you could look at. Oestrogen peaks just before ovulation, it then dips, then rises again mid-luteal phase. Although we are taught progesterone is only secreted once ovulation occurs, this is not true. It also begins rising ±50 hours before ovulation. This is the result of a surge of production from the brain. In fact some believe it's progesterone which causes the LH surge, which in turn causes ovulation. And it's this surge which causes the dip in oestrogen levels. We have to alter our graph! You might be interested in some papers on this, see here, here, here and here. It could be you are either producing excess oestrogen in the follicular phase, or this brain surge is not taking place, or after ovulation, the rise in progesterone is slow. Any one of these could cause the depression. It's evident from your reaction this month, that the supplemental progesterone is preventing this. Incidentally, you mention 'drops', which I take are oil based? Do you rub these on or are they taken orally? Oral progesterone is the least effective Delivery system. Most of it gets destroyed by the gut and liver. Although the buccal cavity does absorb it well, some is inevitably lost down the throat. Rubbing it on the skin might be a better option, although a study found lipophilic delivery systems not as efficient as emulsions, see here. The "range of 3040 h" is incorrect, in the full paper it reads….. 30-40 h. I was startled by the figure in the abstract, as it works out to 126 days! Why I'm mentioning this is you have ordered a cream, which could cause oestrogen dominance when starting it. In other words the amount of progesterone you're receiving via the drops, does not get absorbed as well as that from a cream. Even the creams themselves vary in absorption rates, some of the thicker ones resulting in less progesterone circulating. So please be aware of this. Continued below.
Feb 05, 2012
 Autoimmune / Diabetes... Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A You might also be interested in Saliva Tests a naturopath runs for us. She does a before and after test, and from this we've found the progesterone is absorbed well. So pleased you found the Hollis video good, although it's rather alarming about the lack of vitamin D in breast milk. Very interesting about the 'autoimmune' symptoms recurring, it could all possibly be due to a vitamin D deficiency. Hashi's is certainly affected by it, see here, here and here. Don't talk to me about the GTT test! I had one done once 36 years ago, as I was interested in hypoglycaemia at the time. I started shivering so violently after the glucose, that they had to give me a blanket, even that didn't help. Evidently I had reactive hypoglycaemia, but my reaction was not noted, and the test came back negative for diabetes. I wasn't interested in that! Hypoglycaemia was not even considered in those days. Please give me the name of the glandulars you use, as so many have adrenal stress, but I've not got a good brand to suggest, they obviously work! I too wish I'd known more about progesterone after I'd had Justine, as I also went into PND for four years. I was 33 when I had her, and all too soon it seemed Peri-menopause hit me, and more depression! I also had it during puberty too, but luckily was not given anti-depressants or counselling as is the case now, I had to weather it. I started Justine on the progesterone when she was 14, as I didn't want her to suffer any. She's still using it and is now 30. Myopathy is so overlooked, I didn't realise you had that too, it's never mentioned in ante natal classes. In fact none of the possible symptoms that can occur after birth were mentioned. Bless you for the kind words, and hugs to you too! Take care Wray
Feb 06, 2012
 Got the cream!
by: Mrs. A

Greetings Wray! I have suspected something going on progesterone-wise shortly before ovulation because I always get a hint of symptoms around a day or so before ovulation. This info is very interesting. I suspect, from taking temperatures and noting down symptoms, that my progesterone levels start to fritter away around 1 week after ovulation but I haven't charted long enough to rely on that. I also get the depression at around that time along with the inflammatory symptoms. My periods used to be 4 days long. Now they are 3. I am wondering if I am entering or have entered premenopause? My periods are now 3 days of flow and not 4. Before I had my son, I lived in NYC and I was drinking gallons of soy chai lattes, soy this and soy that, fakes meats, etc. My cycles got shorter and I eventually started having bleeding every 14 days for a while. It all stopped overnight when I moved to Istanbul and was eating a high protein diet with no soy at all! Actually when I moved to NYC (before the soy fad) my cycles got shorter immediately. It also happens when I return for a visit. I'm wondering about doing a saliva test to see where I am at with the hormones. I've had my eye on the Genova Diagnotics test for a while now. I suspect that my estrogen may be low and I'm wondering what your thoughts are about how sensitive I am to small amounts of progesterone. Could it be that I have low estrogen so that the ratio between the two hormones are greatly affected by small amounts of progesterone?

I was taking progesterone drops orally. I think hey were oil based, not sure. It was by Apex Energetics from the USA. I finished the last drops on the train on the way to meet Julienne yesterday!!! She is soooooo sweet! Such an amazing soul, I adore her! I freaked out yesterday morning because I realised that I didn't have enough progesterone (it's a very dark glass bottle and hard to tell). I was worried about harming my potential pregnancy by not having a supply of progesterone to hand and bringing on a sudden cold turkey drop in levels. I bought myself 4 tubes of Natpro from Julienne and I will return the Serenity when it arrives. The Natpro cream is lovely, you must be extremely proud of your creation!

I did the vitamin D test tonight, I'll post it tomorrow. I'm looking forward to seeing the results and I will be militant about my levels from now on and the same goes for my son. I currently started him on 2,000IUs. I loved the look of the vitamin D that Julienne showed me but my son can't handle F.O.S in any probiotics. He can't do inulin. It's hard to find him a probiotic because of this, plus he needs one not cultured on dairy. The only one I found is Natren but the children's one is dairy based and the adult ones don't have the strains I was after for him (can't remember them off hand and must check my notes). Continued...
Feb 06, 2012
 Got the cream! (continued...)
by: Mrs. A

(Continued...) There is one by custom probiotics in the States that have a formula which they created for autistic children which ticks all of the boxes in terms of ingredients, has no prebiotics (I think) and is D-Lactate free. It's expensive but should last ages, and I can take it too as I've run out. Just don't have the cash at the moment but will save up. My boy can't do homemade fermented veggies or kefir either. He reacts to them.

Your GTT story sounds like mine! I was shaking so hard they could hardly draw the bloods! Thankfully the glandulars took care of the hypos. I use a brand called Nutri Ltd. I take a combo of their thyroid glandular, adrenal glandular and adrenal glandular extra which has some pituitary glandular and extra B vits. I get sick on too many B vits (I come down with the flu), so I only take the one NAE and top up with the regular adrenal tablets.

Justine is lucky to have such an informed mom like you! I must have suffered hormonal imbalances all my life, that's for sure.

I am taking around 187mg of progesterone. Is it safe to slowly decrease to the symptom threshold during pregnancy (if I am indeed pregnant, still yet to confirm!)?

Sorry this is so long and thank you dear Wray!!!
Feb 07, 2012
 Got the cream!
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A So pleased you met Jules, she is a delight! She skyped me briefly before going to meet you, to tell me she was. You do react quickly to the progesterone, which makes me suspect your oestrogen is either high, or the ratio of the two is way out. Only a saliva test can tell that, Genova are good, which is why we use them. If you lived off soy for a time, it could well be high. I'm not sure how long you were eating it, I tried a veggie diet for about 4 years. And lived off soy foods too, didn't do me much good! Soy is oestrogenic, as you undoubtedly know, there's one study describing a man with gynecomastia. They couldn't find what was wrong with him, until they thought to check his diet. He was consuming 4 litres of soy milk per day! You have travelled greatly, how lovely. Thanks for the kind words about the cream, we have tried to make it as light and natural as possible. But do let me know if you react at all. So delighted you've done the vitamin D test, I asked Jules to always keep one or two tests for her clients. It makes such a difference. And please ignore the 'adequate' level they give, far too low. Even the FDA puts it at 75nmol/L and not the 50nmol/L the NHS does. This wouldn't even cure rickets, which has now made a huge come back in the UK. Such a pity about the inulin, I've not heard that before. It was one of the reasons I chose it, I thought no one would react! Amazing he also can't eat the fermented foods, as they too are meant to be so good. Let's hope the vitamin D helps him. And thanks so much for the name of the glandulars, if you don't react badly to them, I doubt anyone else will. It is safe to decrease if you do it slowly, I still find I need about 170mg/day, my emotions get very wobbly if I reduce further! Please don't apologise about the length, the more info I have the better. Take care Wray
Feb 07, 2012
 Pregnancy Dosage Confusion for Natpro
by: Mrs. A

Dearest Wray, I read the pregnancy page and many posts here. Lots of women have asked about dosage during pregnancy but I still couldn't find the answers I was looking for. I found out yesterday that I am indeed pregnant! I'm absolutely thrilled. I'm confused regarding dosage for myself. I understand that progesterone cream is to be used as and when needed and not dosed, but I also understand when you say that dosage is very important during pregnancy and that a drop in progesterone is a common cause of miscarriage. I read on one comment you wrote that you must not reduce progesterone more than 16mg per reduction during pregnancy. Could you explain further what you mean about 'per reduction'? Are you referring to daily? Also on the pregnancy page, I didn't grasp the tapering advice. Did you mean that the dose could be tapered over a month or 2 'after' pregnancy or during, or both?

I have never suffered a miscarriage as yet and I although I am 38 and only 13 days pregnant (God willing it will be fine) I have conceived on the first try as I did my first. Also my luteal phase is 14 days. However I do know that I have an OD issue because of my monthly luteal phase inflammation. During my first pregnancy I dehydrated from vomiting regularly for 2 trimesters. I went from skinny to fat. The last trimester has one big braxton hicks fest. I was contracting painfully all of the time. I never bled or spotted the whole pregnancy BUT the birth! I bled A LOT! I still can't figure it out but my body was fiercely contracting to push baby out before being fully dilated and once dilated, I had to use brute force to get baby out because my body stopped contracting, just weak ripples. I burst thousands of blood vessels on my face pushing (natural home birth with no meds). It looked like somebody sprayed my face with purple ink! I was also swollen in the last trimester. I couldn't see my ankles. I had protein in my urine. I think I was on my way to preeclampsia??

Although the fertility side seems to be functioning, I KNOW I have an OD issue. I thought it would be smart to take 200mg every day and see how I am symptomatically after the 4th month has passed, taper down to 100mg if symptoms are at bay (but not much less than that) and if symptoms do come back, dose up to where I get relief and stay at that level til the birth, tapering off after the birth (again watching out for symptoms/PND). I didn't think about whether I could actually financially afford to support my progesterone protocol throughout the pregnancy (not sure I can afford 1 tube every 10 days but I'll figure something out). I also should have thought about the possibility of bringing OD on to myself and risking a MC because I dosed myself up to 200mg of NP too quickly. Thing is I did this to relieve the inflammation on my back and legs and each time I applied a 1/4 teaspoon, I felt better in minutes. Would so appreciate your thoughts Wray! I'm confused!!! Thank you SO much!!! Hugs and Love, xXx
Feb 08, 2012
 Pregnancy Dosage Confusion for Natpro
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A I'm so delighted to hear this! I do say on the page to use 100-200mg/day prior to falling pregnant, and to continue with this for at least 2 months. I am in the process of re-doing the page, as I have so much more info. My fear is making the page too long and complicated! I can be obtuse in some of my statements! Too many reduce the progesterone far too quickly, and suffer from it, hence the 16mg/day. This is 1/2ml of cream, I've found even 1ml can be too fast. And per reduction, I sometimes add 'remain on the reduction for a few days until stable', but have left it out on other pages, sorry! Per day would be too fast, even on that small amount. I see I really need to do a re-write! This is the sort of info from you that I need for the page to make sense to readers. Tapering should be done whenever someone wants to reduce progesterone, whether pregnant or not. In the case of pregnancy, I now believe it should be used until about the 3-4 month stage, as miscarriages can still occur after the critical 8 week period. Although the placenta begins production of progesterone round about the 8th week, production can be very low. And if at the same time ovarian production is dropping, there's insufficient to support the foetus. Hyperemesis once started, needs 330mg/day or more to stop it, but as you're already using progesterone this shouldn't occur. But please watch for it and if it does, increase the amount until symptoms pass. Well I thought I had a tough time having Justine, but not what you went through! Progesterone does keep the uterus 'quiet', so it appears your level was dropping. And it sounds highly likely you were on your way to preeclampsia, in fact probably had it. I'm surprised they didn't do something. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but lack of vitamin D is the most likely cause! See here, here, here, here here and here. Continued below.
Feb 08, 2012
 Pregnancy Dosage Confusion for Natpro Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A Progesterone also plays a big role too, plus some other factors like low selenium, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here,
here, here, here and here. Your 200mg/day protocol sounds good, particularly in view of the Braxton hicks/preeclampsia issue. Plus keep up with the vitamin D. Cost is a factor, but knowing your body so well you might find you can reduce slowly once you reach the 3rd month. Using the combo progesterone/vitamin D it could well be you don't need as much progesterone, I would hope so. Take care Wray
Feb 08, 2012
 My 200mg per day protcol
by: Mrs. A

Greetings Wray! Thank you so much for your reply. I saw on your pregnancy page that you said to start the progesterone at 100-200mg prior to pregnancy but I misunderstood and thought that was recommended specifically for correcting a luteal phase defect (my LP is 14 days so I didn't think it applied to me). I'm so excited to see your updated pregnancy page!! I'm sure all of the new info you have will be much appreciated by all of us! I understand what you mean about complicating the page as too much info can make some of us go blank, I know that I get brain fog at times. It's great that you have a break down at the bottom of the page so that people can recap and summarise the main points after digesting all of the info. If you would like a guinea pig to experiment on, you are more than welcome to send me a copy via email and I can read it and see if I understand it easily or get confused anywhere, or have any unanswered questions that may be relevant to others.

Yes, I'm sure you are spot on about the preeclampsia. I actually thought I had it at the time. I was having disturbed vision and serious chest pains too but the doctors were positive I didn't have it although they gave me a chest xray which I was sad to do because of the radiation exposure (but felt I had no choice as the chest pain was severe and I couldn't breath properly). So that blows their 'active uterus' theory!

I'm sure my D levels were awful as you said. I did have a test done last year and it was 33, so it couldn't have been much better with the pregnancy.

Thanks for your links and info, I'll go through those today. I'll let you know how I get along. My temp took a dive of 4 tenths this morning and I feel terrible today (period would be due tomorrow if not pregnant). Hoping all is okay.

With Love!
xXx
Feb 08, 2012
 My 200mg per day protcol
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A As I said to you at some point, I can be obtuse in my statements! And it's good you ask these questions, as I do need know how others view what I put. My father used to say I talk in shorthand, I'm sure some of my answers are! And bless you for offering to review the page for me. I've just done one on hot flushes and sent it to some friends, Jules was one, and they all came back saying….huh? It is hugely complex, I put in as much as I could find, another one I had to do a recap on at the end to try to make sense of. How to balance the pages between too little or too much info, that's my dilemma. Very interesting you had chest pain and couldn't breathe, progesterone is essential for normal lung function. It opens the airways, increases lung volume, it's given to pre-term infants for respiratory distress syndrome, and helpful for asthma, see here and here. Here are some more on respiration, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Continued below.
Feb 08, 2012
 My 200mg per day protocol Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A Your symptoms all point to low progesterone levels, and vitamin D, must never forget that! Which incidentally is also good for asthma, see here, here, here and here. Oh dear I tend to go on rather! Were you stressed today? Slightly more than normal? This could account for the drop in progesterone. It could also be the fact your period is due tomorrow. Don't hesitate to use more. Take care, love and hugs! Wray
Feb 09, 2012
 Upping the dose during the first 4 months of pregnancy
by: Mrs. A

Dear Wray, it is an honor and pleasure to hear you 'go on'!! I can only have nothing but gratitude!

May I ask a question? I am sure you have answered this even within my post and it's staring me in the face - sorry!!

I have been getting the odd inflammatory symptom which I think is from the excitement of being pregnant along with the fears, etc (yet I'm feeling the best I have in ages). I have been applying throughout the day in smaller doses and if I get an OD symptom I have just applied the next dose earlier. However, like you suggest, I want to be liberal about using more in these situations.

I know that you said I can taper down during pregnancy or non pregnancy. My question is, if I get low prog symptoms during the first 3-4 months and I need to up the dose from my current 200mg, do I need to maintain that new higher level and refrain from any tapering down until after the 4th month has passed?

Thanks so much Wray!
Feb 09, 2012
 P.S
by: Mrs. A

I forgot to say thank you so much for the links/info and for your reply!!! I so appreciate it xXx
Feb 10, 2012
 Upping the dose during the first 4 months of pregnancy
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A Oh good, as I can get carried away! And the answer wasn't staring you in the face. Yes do increase till symptoms pass, then if you feel stable and want to reduce back down to the 200mg/day do so. But as you know only very slowly. This tiny drop in progesterone is not going to destabilise anything. And remember to stay on the reduced amount for a few days, before reducing again. It's always a balance between more than needed, and therefore costly, and too little. Do hope these next few days pass well. Take care Wray
Feb 11, 2012
 Vitamin D Test Results
by: Mrs. A

Hi Wray, thank you so very much for your reply. I feel much more relaxed now that I know what I'm doing regarding my progesterone therapy during the first four months. I will do more reading on your site (pregnancy & prog) as I am eager to digest all of the information I can get my hands on!

I got my test results back from Birmingham Hospital today - thanks again for the advice to get that done. I was happy to see that my levels were up but I will get them even higher (say 100?):

Total Vitamin D: 86.8 nmol/L
25-hydroxyvitamin D3: 82.0 nmol/L
25-hydroxyvitamin D2: 4.8 nmol/L

I ordered your vitamin D with F.O.S from Jules yesterday (I'll trial it with my son as he may be over his F.O.S sensitivity). It's the 10,000IU bag. I'll start on that when it arrives.

Wray, are there any studies that you know of linking sleep deprivation with a drop in progesterone levels? I'm wondering because I get a crampy uterus, bloating, depression and inflammation when I am very tired.

Lots of love and hugs!!! xXx
Feb 11, 2012
 Vitamin D Test Results
by: Wray

Hi Mrs A They are quick, so pleased you had it done now. BH have their hands tied by the NHS, which have the 'adequate' level so low it won't even prevent rickets, ie 50nmol/L. Even the FDA have theirs at 75nmol/L, which is still too low according to most specialists. The conservatives say it should be a minimum of 125nmol/L up to 200nmo/L, the less conservative say no less than 175nmol/L to 250nmol/L. So I feel it would be better if you aimed for the 175-250nmol/L range. Mine is now 229.5nmol/L. Would be interested to hear if you or your son react to the FOS. Interesting you ask about sleep deprivation, I believe so. I'll give you all the papers I have and see if you arrive at the same conclusion, see here, here, here and here. Adenosine is also involved in the sleep/wake cycle, and progesterone stimulates adenosine, see here and here. here, and progesterone here. Dopamine is also involved, progesterone does raise levels slightly, see here. Finally glutathione is also involved, see here. Progesterone also raises glutathione levels! Love and hugs to you too! Take care Wray

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