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Progesterone resistance?

by Jenna
(NM)

Hello!
I have been taking 300mg of progesterone cream (progesterall) daily for a year now. Most of my symptoms have greatly improved, though I still experience estrogen dominance from time to time. In any case, I am writing because yesterday I got a call from the Progesterall people asking me if I was re-selling their product since I order so much of it. They couldn't believe I was using that quantity just for myself. (And this is the John Lee company!) I was hoping they'd offer me a discount for buying so much, but they didn't.

Anyway, the guy said that because I'm using such a large quantity, it's possible for the receptor sites to become resistant to the progesterone and that I would need more and more just to maintain. He advised I start to scale back immediately so this doesn't happen. Is this something I need to worry about??? After everything I've been through with this hormone nightmare, I don't want to think my progesterone receptors are becoming resistant. I know you've said you've been using it daily for 15 years and it's still working for you. I'm just looking for reassurance.

Thank you!

Comments for Progesterone resistance?

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Dec 04, 2012
 Is it possible we are approaching the menopause?
by: Karenina

Hi Jenna,

I was doing well with 350 - 400mg a day in the last year and in the last month my breast pain has returned and the odd facial hair is appearing again and I,too, am concerned as to why this is happening again even though I have not changed the amount of progesterone cream. The only thing I can think of...is whether I am now approaching the menopause whereas I have been pre-menopausal till now. Is that possible for you? I am going to have a hormonal blood test today to see how things are for me. I really don't think it has anything to do with becoming resistant to the progesterone cream as you say Wray has been using it for several years now. I would be interested to see what Wray's thoughts are on this one.
Take care. Karenina
Dec 04, 2012
 Progesterone resistance?
by: Wray

Hi Jenna That must be costing you a fortune! You must be going through about 9 tubes a month. And they would be concerned as they believe we need no more than 20-40mg/day, every one else follows Dr Lee's recommendations too. Luckily I was fortunate enough to meet Dr Dalton, and read all her research papers and books. She found low levels just didn't work, scorned the studies done using them, as they all of course failed. In her experience she found far higher levels were needed to correct an imbalance, so used amounts ranging from 400mg to 2400mg/day, see here. From her encouragement, and from helping others I've found amounts do need to be high, very high in some cases. Unfortunately amounts of 20-40mg/day do not raise levels to that found in the luteal phase. I doubt 80mg/day would. I go into all the myths surrounding progesterone on our page Progesterone Misconceptions. I suggest you try what he says and see for yourself if your receptors are resistant, you'll soon find they aren't! I've found I need about 170mg/day or 5ml (1tsp) of our cream, but when stressed I add more. I have not found I need to keep increasing it, if I did I'd probably be using about 10 tubes a day now, or 20,000mg progesterone! I don't normally do this, as I'm happy to answer queries from users of other brands, but I'm concerned about your costs. Please have a look at this page here. I think you'll be surprised at the difference between what you are spending now and what it could be. We also give discounts. A lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone, please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. You might like to read these comments here from women who have had to use high amounts of vitamin D to get rid persistent symptoms. In spite of high amounts of progesterone. Take care Wray
Dec 04, 2012
 Is it possible we are approaching the menopause?
by: Wray

Hi Karenina It's so difficult to say if you're nearing the end of Peri-menopause. Menopause itself occurs on average at age 51. But P-M can begin anywhere from 5 to 10 years before. The best way to find out is to ask your mother when she went in, as daughters tend to follow their mother's timing. My menopause occurred when I was 51, I didn't know to ask my mother back then! I do recall my mother having strange 'episodes' which I now know was her end of P-M. I found the last 3 years very hectic! I didn't discover progesterone until I was about 48, as you know it took a good 6 months for me to come out the other end! But I was using such low amounts, the typical recommended 20-40mg/day. And then I read all of Dr Dalton's books, and met her too, which is why I now suggest much higher levels. I spent a whole day in the British Library in London photocopying all her research papers, no internet papers back then, it was 1998! And don't forget you are going in to winter now, dark days drop not only vitamin D levels, but progesterone too. Maybe you could check your vitamin D too, as that does have a bearing on progesterone. All my facial hair dropped off once I'd used progesterone for a few months, thank heavens. I was so concerned I had it all waxed off, never again! I broke out in spots, which were very sore too. I don't have any now, just the odd rogue hair which I always had. The tweezers fix them. I must add here, after our last 'chat', I found an old bottle of Lugols and applied it, confident I'd be fine. Well it faded within hours! So I bought a new bottle thinking the old might be worn out, but still fading very quickly. I've now started taking 3 drops a day, and my patch still fades! I must be so low in it. The only explanation is I used to eat quite a lot of seaweed, nori rolls and miso soup, and haven't for a long time. As that's much nicer than the drops I think I'll be adding it back to my food. So thanks for bringing up the iodine again, it's so easy to forget all the things we need! Take care Wray
Dec 05, 2012
 Increase in Estrogen dominance
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, thanks for your input but I was just trying to reassure her that it is impossible to become resistant to progesterone cream. Yes in the last month I have been experiencing some estrogen symptoms again, the first to start is always the breast pain which was getting worse daily. I am still taking 15,000IU of Vitamin D3 every day...you may be right that I may have to increase the amount as we have had rain all through the seasons this year.

From November to March I get a very dry cough every year which goes on until I am almost sick...something to do with the dry heat affecting my asthma? So I have doubled the amount of Barley grass powder and Vitamin C Acai powder in the last week which seems to be helping a little with the dry cough. We shall see...

I hear you have been using Iodine...I have had to stop using it again as it was making my breast pain worse. It may be that it is better taken as part of a meal which you say seems to help. Anyway, I am waiting for the hormonal blood test results. You may be right that it could be due to the winter season? I remember I had to take 500mg around Christmas time last year when the estrogen levels were very high.

My mother died when I was 28 years old but fortunately she did mention that she started her menopause when she was 47/48 and I will be 49 in January next year. It is possible that I may be entering the menopause? The facial hairs are very few, but when they show up more it is another sign of an increase in the levels of estrogen dominance for me...I felt for you when I read what you had to go through!

I no longer panic now thanks to all your wonderful help, advice and support...I am now aware of what I have to do when estrogen dominance presents itself but I always check using hormonal blood tests results first before I take the next step. It may well be that I will have to increase the use of progesterone cream for while, together with an increase level of Vitamin D daily.

Take care of yourself and big hugs from me. Love Karenina
Dec 05, 2012
 Increase in Estrogen dominance
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Ah of course!! I had heard, via the BBC news website about all the rain, floods in Wales too! And I believe you're in for a tough winter too, oh to be in England, but not in winter, or summer when it rains! So sorry to hear your breasts are getting sore again, it's such a struggle to stay on top of things. Although I am puzzled the iodine was making them worse, when it normally makes them better. I haven't yet added the nori or wakame which I use in the miso soup, but must do so. As I'm tired of taking the drops! The dry heat would affect the lungs, is there any chance of putting bowls of water around the house, or getting an humidifier? Although another puzzle for me is the amount of vitamin D and progesterone you're using should be helping that. But maybe it is to do with the dryness, rather than inflammation or a bug. Very interesting you found last winter you had to increase the progesterone, no one has written in saying this. Interestingly thyroid meds normally have to be increased in winter, which all points to a low vitamin D level. It's needed by the thyroid to function well, there have been studies done on this. I would say you are very nearly at menopause, if your mother entered it then. So sorry to hear she died when you were so young. Ah yes the waxing! Thank heavens I found progesterone in time, a friend had hers lasered off at great expense. Bless you for always saying such kind things! Take care, hugs and loves Wray
Dec 06, 2012
 Re: Progesterone resistance
by: Jenna

Thank you both so much for your comments. I do feel reassured now and I thank you for your advice.

In terms of switching brands, I had very much wanted to switch to Natpro a few months ago for several reasons, cost being a big one. But when I had asked about it, I was told that I would experience estrogen dominance symptoms while making the switch. This scared me off of doing it. Now I think it might be worth it, however. Do the symptoms tend to last very long when making a switch? Is it better to switch gradually (ie, use a little of both brands for a while) or take the band-aid approach?

Thanks again!

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