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Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding

by Allyson
(Short Hills, NJ)

Hello all.

I have had great success using Progesterone Cream in the past but ran into a recent problem and am looking for suggestions to resolve it.

I had a Novasure procedure two years ago and due to a septate uterus, still got periods but they were very light.

Once I learned more about estrogen dominance I realized I could likely have dealt with my problem with progesterone, but, that is water under the dam!

Anyway, am currently in perimenopause with lots of anovulatory cycles, but until last summer, the dose of progesterone was keeping my period stable and keeping my other symptoms at bay.

In October I accidentally bought a tube of phytoestrogen cream and I used it, in the amounts of my progesterone cream!! For two months! 1/2 teaspoon twice a day! Which is a lot of phytoestrogen cream!!

My symptoms were getting worse, and so I kept slightly increasing my dose, thinking it was progesterone cream. In December I had experienced a heavy longer than usual flow and went to check the progesterone dose on my tube.... and that is when I saw it was phytoestrogen!!! I could not believe I had been so careless!!

No wonder I was getting worse and worse. I was not only getting no supplemental progesterone but totally overstimulating my estrogen!! To top it off, I gave in to chocolate and caffeine cravings and increasingly ate and drank it like a crazy person.

Anyway, once I realized this stupid mistake, I switched back to progesterone cream, cut out the chocolate and caffeine, and thought I might need a "loading dose" of Prog. so I went to 100 and then 200 and then 240 a day. In January, on day 12 I got a "pre-menstrual headache" and on day 13 I started bleeding. It was moderate to heavy but has lightened up with the progesterone I am using but has not yet stopped. I am a little leery of going on a higher dose.

I have added some NAC and Magnesium.

I can actually feel my imbalance kicking in every few hours, so I have been spreading my dose out a little every several hours or when I feel symptoms. I can feel when the balance is shifting and keep trying to nip it in the bud.

It is so inconvenient to get up to 300 or 400 a day but I realize I might have to for a while to correct this!

I know progesterone is my solution and am just so peeved that I was on a good balance and then did this to myself!!

My experience really shows how much and how quickly estrogen dominance can take over your life if you are not attentive!!!

Any comments or suggestions are welcome!

Comments for Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding

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Jan 25, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: RJ

I am currently using 500mg a day. I'm two weeks on a cycle and two weeks off. Starts out light for three days then goes heavy for three then it really lightens up as though I'm stopping only to go gangbusters again with heavy. Usually I spot too. When I am not flowing I go back down to 200mg a day. I have been using the cream every day, since I believe, March of last year. There is nothing normal about my bleeding any more...I'm not going to call it a cycle any longer because it isn't...it's just a constant, unscheduled, harassing bleed...do I need a pad today or not and it is so very annoying, but something I have to live with...and my family too LOL! My cycles were like clockwork...to the time of day and then one day BAM it all flew out the window. Putting it on hourly did help me when I first started using the cream and the flowing was so bad and there are still some months I have to go back to that method. But it still seems to want to flow for about two weeks...hourly might shorten it to nine or ten days. The imbalance you feel, I too feel. Even at 500mg a day I still have hot flashes...it's crazy. Last night I had to tell my son to move away from me because he was causing me to be so overheated...and the nausea...yuck, yuck. If I could afford it I wouldn't hesitate to increase the dosage even higher to stop the symptoms. I take 2,000mg of NAC and Taurine (powdered form)a day along with some 15 other supplements too. Don't be leery to increase because it may be your solution. But know that what may work for you this week on dosage may not work for you next week. You must be flexible to get through P-M and using the cream. Best of luck to you! Hello to you Wray...hope all is well on your end! God Bless!
Jan 26, 2013
 Follow Up
by: Allyson

After doing more reading here I have changed my strategy.

Since I already know I am having estrogen dominance,
I decided to plunge right in at a much higher dose and deal with any symptoms up front rather than up the dose gradually and deal with them over and over.

I bumped up to 480 (based on multiple teaspoons of the brand cream I have, 80 gr per teaspoon). .

Since I feel symptoms and start bleeding again mid-afternoon I am spreading it out three times a day. This comes to two teaspoons of the brand I have three times a day.

If I feel symptom creep then I will try to spread it out with 200 at night and then spread the rest into three doses every six hours.

If this works I will stick with it for a few months and then start redcuing very gradually as described on other pages.

And if it does not work then I will up it again in teaspoon (80gr) increments until I get results.

PS. I have had all the medical tests done. No medical issues, dr said perimenopuse

I am also twking NAC and D.

Again. Wish me luck and if anyone has any comments please feel free to post!!
Jan 27, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: Wray

Hi Allyson Not that it's of any comfort to you, but I do hope many women read your story. It just goes to show how oestrogen, even in phytoestrogen form, can affect us. And how affective progesterone is, no placebo affect there! It happened to me too. I'd just had a blood test done, and my progesterone was rock bottom. So the doctor I'd gone to suggested progesterone cream. I started using it, and after about 2 weeks I began getting Hot Flushes. Never having had them previously I had quite a shock. I made enquiries and found the cream was a phytoestrogen cream too. Although it had no label to say what it was on the tube, the leaflet handed out with it said 'How to use progesterone cream'. I was furious. Once I did start progesterone the hot flushes thankfully went. The reason you gave in to chocolate etc was the excess oestrogen, it destabilises blood glucose, whereas progesterone doesn't, see here. I'm delighted you're taking the NAC, taurine is helpful too, as it's low in dysfunctional bleeding, see here. And I do hope you're taking vitamin D too, as that's needed by every cell to function normally. We do have a page on Menstruation with more info. I'm so pleased you're using the progesterone as it should be used, as and when needed. There's no hard and fast rule. In fact I did a page on the many Progesterone Misconceptions there are. If you're taking at least 2000mg/day NAC, plus take the taurine and vitamin D too, you might find the 240mg/day progesterone is enough. Although I have found 400mg/day is generally needed if bleeding is continual. When you say it's inconvenient to get up to 300 or 400mg/day, I'm not sure what you mean. Unless you're using a very low strength cream and have to use a great deal of it? Take care Wray
Jan 27, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: Wray

Hi RJ All's well bless you! And thanks for coming in with support and encouragement for Allyson, it's needed! I'm so sorry you're still struggling with the bleeding though. Please consider increasing the NAC. And are you taking about 2000mg/day taurine, it does have to be a high dose. And are you taking enough vitamin D, and how are your levels now? I can't remember what we discussed! All these should have helped by now. It's just a temporary help, but have you ever done the questionnaire on our site? Once you do there is a 30% discount on any number of tubes you want. Although we do have the same discount if buying 20 tubes, have you thought of sharing with a friend who uses progesterone? I really wish I could be of more help, but women who bleed in spite of high doses of nutrients have me baffled! Have I ever given you Annie's page to read, I'm sure I must have, but in case not see here. She did find some other things helped her, besides those I suggest. Interesting you have nausea, you've probably told me,, my memory again! But it's caused by substance P. Strange name but they don't seem to know much about it. What is known is that it's a nociceptive neuropeptide. It's involved in pain and nausea. These are two rather obtuse papers on nausea, see here and here. A lack of magnesium increases substance P, see here and here. Are you taking any? Substance P inhibits progesterone, see here. But if enough is used, progesterone suppresses substance P, see here. "Accumulating evidence indicates that the neuropeptide substance P is predominantly involved in neurogenic inflammation and pain perception...... Intriguingly, decreased pain sensitivity is found to be associated with high plasma progesterone levels. We hypothesize that progesterone may attenuate nociception and associated inflammatory response." A continually bleeding uterus is inflamed, it might the you do need more progesterone. But please try increasing the NAC, taurine and vitamin D first, as they are cheaper! And don't forget the magnesium too. Blessings to you, take care Wray
Jan 27, 2013
 Follow up responses and a question
by: Anonymous

Thanks Wray and the others for all your responses!

I am already taking NAC and D and I will add some Taurine too.

I am sorry I was not the only one to make this stupid mistake with the cream (mistaking phytoestrogen for progesterone!)

Before this stupidity on my part, I was doing perfectly fine on 160-200 per day.

And I think that since my problem was largely brought on by estrogen exposure (rather than by my own fluctuating levels), I may be able to get back down to that.

I am finding that spreading it out during the day is proving to be very helpful so I will keep that up for now.

My cream is 20 grams/1/4 teaspoon, so it is a decent strength, but as a working woman sometimes it is a little inconvenient to stop in the middle of the workday to rub in two teaspoons of it.

Two days on the 480 and no bleeding so far... feeling so much better. Sleeping better, no night sweats and no cold hands and feet... what a relief. If that holds for a week then I will start going down 16 or 20 per day for a few days and see what happens. My goal is to get back to where I was before! I realize some E D may kick in after the initial progesterone rush but I am prepared for that.

You know one reads about "irregular periods" and "prolonged bleeding" as symptoms of perimenopause and it doesn't sound all that bad.

But when you are going through it, your life can be turned upside down!

I read somewhere that the first skipped period is the beginning of the last stage of perimenopause and that it can last on average for several years! So thank goodness for progesterone and for sites like this one!!

And YES the most important message here for other women, Watch the xenoestrogens and phytoestrogens especially at this time of life!!! I am checking every single label of everything I use and am surprised how much soy, etc. creeps in... and right now I just cannot afford the exposure.

Thanks to all for the moral support and suggestions

And thanks to Wray for this great site and your attention to each comment and question. You are a doll.
Jan 27, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: RJ

Glad things are well Wray....I see you updated your picture too on your story page....you really look good for your age ;) 2,000mg of NAC, but I will admit, not faithfully you know how it upsets my stomach, but it will be now. 2,000mg of taurine every day and 5,000mg of D and glutamine too, along with 100mcg of K2, 100 mg of Krill Oil, Boron, magnesium complex, 1 tblsp of Flaxseed oil, glycine, selenium, b-complex...golly the list goes on and on. I did go back on Annie's page and found that she had updated in August that I hadn't read, which was helpful. I find the higher dose works for a while, but when I use it I also feel pulling cramps low in the pelvis area and after about an hour the feeling goes away. My thoughts were the lining was too thick and the cream is forcing it out, as I also find the bleeding likes to increase right after I use the cream too and then after about an hour or so it dwindles down. I cannot say the flow is heavy at all, a bit for two days and then it's just slight bleeding throughout the whole day, until night time when it goes away that I don't need to wear a pad at night...used to have large clots, but knock on wood, those are small and few and far between. Who knows. I'll be 47 in two days and all I can hope for is that menopause won't be worse than this. You know how I worry about that stupid "cancer" word. One good thing about it, I can at least count on the 16th of each month that I am going to really start flowing. Spotting two or three days before that and today is the 27th and Aunt Flow is still visiting. You know I always thought it was the excessive weight I have, I currently tip the scales at 280, but Annie is thin and she had it worse than me. So, I'm not so sure that it's a weight issue as I have always been told. But, I have been trying to lose it (I consider myself very active and believe it or not I can do Dr. Mercola's sit and rise test where you sit on the ground and get up with no assistance from any other body parts lol...score 10 for me!)which is almost impossible, but can be done if I avoid pasta and bread...which I love, sugars I can do without, but a fresh loaf of bread out of the oven...heaven and sauce and meatballs...I am italian....which I will be having in a couple days ;). I will be ordering more cream, the friends I have bought with do not need to reorder again as they are fortunate enough to not need high amounts...thus I have run out of friends lol. I have figured I need about six tubes a month to clear that 500mg a day. So, God will hear a prayer from me for help in affording this. I will increase the NAC, yuck for my stomach and I think I'll go up to 10,000 in D a day for a bit and no I have never had a test done. It can't be high or I wouldn't be having all these bleeding problems. God bless you and here's to menopause lol!
Jan 28, 2013
 Follow Up
by: Wray

Hi Allyson Well you are doing what both RJ and I have suggested. Pleased you're taking the NAC and vitamin D, I do hope enough. Let us know how you get on. Take care Wray
Jan 28, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: Wray

Hi RJ Well at least you haven't lost your humour through all the nonsense! The NAC can cause nausea. It does dissolve readily in skin cream, I've used it before in an attempt to make one. It's so healing for the skin too, but the smell of sulphur is too strong, I decided no one would want to buy it! Another problem is you can't get enough in to really raise levels internally. Even a 10% cream only gives 100mg/ml of cream. Alternatively you could try just dissolving it in water and applying that to your skin. 5ml of cysteine will dissolve in 25ml water. 5ml will give you about 3300mg cysteine. So 5ml of the mixture will give you about 660mg cysteine, try that and see if it helps you. Over and above the 2000mg/day you take. I've just tried rubbing it all over my arms, I now exude a slight sulphur smell! Hope no one calls around! Incidentally one prominent doctor in the States called cysteine the best kept anti-cancer secret, see here, here, here, here and here. So stop being worried about it! Are you taking enough glutamine, as that does help stabilise blood glucose and stop cravings. So too does tyrosine, but you are already taking so much! I hope the sit and rise test allows you to use legs, or are you levitating?! And please have a vitamin D test done, it could be you're not taking enough. Lack of vitamin D causes weight gain. Thanks for the comments about the picture, my brother thought it needed updating, I was 52 in the last picture, 13 years ago now! Take care Wray
Jan 28, 2013
 Follow up responses and a question
by: Wray

Hi Allyson Thanks for the kind words! At least you have kept your sense of humour like RJ has, we need it! The cream you use, i.e. 20mg/1/4tsp is not a high strength, and probably costs you a fortune too, knowing the costs of most of the creams. Plus you'd have to use a large amount of cream to get what you need. You must be using about 6tsp per day! Having been through Peri-menopause the last stages are the worst, not only are symptoms worse, but you never know when bleeding is going to occur! I was often taken by surprise by heavy flooding. I've now been a label reader for years, as I'm allergic to sulphur dioxide, and have found that is in everything that needs preserving, even vinegar, a natural preservative. The world has gone mad! Let us know how you get on. Take care Wray
Jan 28, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding - See more at: https://www.progesteronetherapy.com/perimenopuase-estrogen-dominance-need-to-stop-continual-bleeding
by: RJ

Wray, I do that sit and rise test by sitting on the floor indian style and rising...yes I will admit my bottom end is making a bit more difficult with all the weight it has...but I still can do it without any assistance or rolling back and forth as Mercola has to do to get up...men aren't very limber lol. Gosh with that much NAC, I'll lose weight without trying cause my stomach will be in such an uproar. And the stink is going to keep me from putting it on my skin...I'll just deal with the runs. I take 5,000 mg of glutamine a day, powdered form in my morning coffee, which is all I have a day too. I will say that increasing the NAC last night to about 2,200 almost stopped the bleeding...but I'm not getting my hopes up. Take care of yourself and God Bless you!
Jan 29, 2013
 Re: Perimenopause - Estrogen Dominance - Need to Stop the Bleeding
by: Allyson

I have been lucky, my only unbearable symptom is the continual (and previously heavy) bleeding.

My other ones are mostly some night sweats, joint pain, , odd certain rushes of anxiety, cold hands and feet, and foggy brain.

But those other symptoms were very easily helped with the 80-100mg I was taking before my mistaken phytoestrogen overdose!!

It is the bleeding which is the one that is the most troublesome and the hardest to manage.

On a few days of the high dose, spread out during the day, mine is reduced substantially and sometimes gone at times. So I know I am headed in the right direction.

I am going to start spreading my dose out more because the little bleeding starts again shortly before I am due to reapply... and also after I eat (even if not a large meal). I seem to need to keep the levels higher more consistently so I can eventually flip over to a more progesterone dominant situation. I am still craving chocolate mightily but resisting the urge!!!

Regarding cream strength I am on the list to be notified when NatPro becomes available! When you are on a high does every extra gram in the dose makes a difference!

Another product I simply could not be doing without during this Perimenopause phase is the SoftCup. It is similar to a diaphragm in use and placement (no contraceptive purpose, but just a convenient menstrual cup).

Because it hold the flow instead of absorbs it, I can actually see how much it is.

Also it does the constant drying and chafing component of a tampon or pad by its constant presence. Thus I can wear it all the time so if there is sudden bleeding I am protected from embarrassment.

They come in disposable and reusable versions.

And best of all if the bleeding is not too heavy, you can wear it while engaging in relations. When your bleeding is continuous, that can be an important consideration as well.

Jan 29, 2013
 Perimenopause - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop the bleeding - Obnoxious doctor
by: Allyson

Along the way I forgot to post this about the obnoxious doctor which might be of interest.

When I started this problem my doctor offered me the standard synthetic mix.

I said I would rather go the natural bio-identical route which seemed healthier.

Then he said he would give me Prometrium 200 mg 2X day, I said, isn't it best absorbed in the skin and don't I need more. Won't I only get 10% of that.

He said - and he is a respected specialist in a major US city - sure, the bio-identical is always better, and yes, the cream is better, but you will need gallons of it to make a dent, it will cost you a fortune. I could give you a cream prescription but you won't stick with it and in a few week's you will be asking for the standard prescription anyway. If you want to go that route, then we have to monitor your levels, you have to stay on top of it, you're on your own."

I was very much dumbfounded. I said, well, a cream prescription would probably save me hundreds of dollars throughout this process and he would not give it to me because "it ends up being too inconvenient" and that the traditional route is "just the way to go".

Needless to say, in the middle of this, I am now on the market for a new specialist while keeping this dumbo on the back burner in case I need him for an emergency.

Sadly in my area those who are on the bioidentical bandwagon are fiercely expensive and do not accept any insurance - just not something I can possibly do right now.

How obnoxious that a doctor would acknowledge the bio-identical is better, that cream is better than oral, that I would need a high dose for now.... and still won't write a prescription for it!!!

It is reassuring that to hear cream and a high dose confirmed... but frustrating to be left in the lurch as doctors just line up like sardines in the pharmaceutical industry bandwagon!

So we as women are left to figure it out on our own just at a difficult time when we could use the support.

FWIW
Jan 29, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: RJ

Allyson, I'll go one step further and tell you my doctor's nurse assistant (the doctor was too busy to see me) told me cancer and that is what led me to Wray's site. They are all quacks. They push pills upon pills upon pills. It's legalized population control. If the pill doesn't work, then too bad, we've done all we can, so now you will die. Doctors are, sadly, run by the almighty dollar. Our own FDA is approving genetically made foods, for we the consumer, to ingest. Giving no thought whatsoever to our bodies and how it will reject it sending us further into an estrogen dominant state. Yet a few weeks ago our government put out a statement that we need to have more children because there will be a substantial tax revenue decrease and the population will not be enough to sustain the economic burdens we have. I have all the symptoms you too have and I have tried the cup and it doesn't stay in nor will a tampon. I birthed three 11 pounds children...has a tendency to stretch things way out. The foggy brain comes in a good second to the bleeding aggravation. There are days I know I look like a deer who has just found a pair of headlights. It just can't process and most the times I just walk away cause I know I'll sound like a babbling idiot. And it is not just in your area of the natural doctors being very pricy and accepting no insurance, it is in ours also...St. Louis. Again it boils down to the insurance companies will not accept them as MD's because they represent the natural way to healing and taking care of our bodies and the drug companies cannot patent natural made substances, such as the progesterone in Wray's cream. So the almighty dollar. We as a society are on our own. If you want to live healthy you go to the local farmer's market and then the big grocer chains will figure out society has had enough. Buy a few acres, we have 65 and grow your own foods, can and freeze them. Same with the milk, cows are cheap when a calf, raise it and it'll provide all the milk you need for a long time. But we are just a minority. Most folks are happy going about their business, spending hundreds on dine out and the new drugs, fads and fragrances. Yet with all the supplements and healthy eating my family does the bleed continues. As Wray has said, once P-M starts, we cannot stop the bleeding and make it go back to a cycle, we can only treat all the side effects that it creates for us. Take care and God Bless!
Jan 30, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: Wray

Hi RJ I must try it! Well I managed to get most of the NAC and water on, but while sitting in the bath last night, there was this rising sulphur smell! Not sure I'll do it again in a hurry. Delighted the slight increase almost stopped the bleeding, please persist, as you can't go on like that. The taurine should help too, and that doesn't cause the tummy to be upset, well it doesn't with mine, and I take it every day. Helps calm me! Take care Wray
Jan 30, 2013
 Perimenopause - Estrogen Dominance - Need to Stop the Bleeding
by: Wray

Hi Allyson My sentiments too, although there are some wonderful doctors. I even heard of one who still does house calls! But it's good to know he knows the creams are better than oral. Interesting to hear all those symptoms were helped by the 80-100mg/day. I do tend to err on the high side, but only because I know it works, it's easy enough to reduce the amount when symptoms have gone. It's also good to know the progesterone does work too. I've just answered another woman who ran out for two weeks, and all her symptoms came back. She's now struggling to get back to where she was. Unfortunately the drop in progesterone does allow both testosterone and oestrogen to rise again. The ovaries are still making these, even if ovulation is not taking place. In fact the menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, see here. It takes much more progesterone to get it under control and back to feeling normal. Using it more frequently is always a good idea, levels drop after about 13 hours. Too long for many symptoms, particularly Hot Flushes. I find this fascinating "because the little bleeding starts ......and also after I eat (even if not a large meal)". Many things cause progesterone to drop, all sugars and large meals (evidently small ones too!), see here, insulin, see here. Not to mention dark days, presumably because vitamin D has dropped. A lack of this reduces the benefits of progesterone, see here, here and here. Continued below
Jan 30, 2013
 Perimenopause - Estrogen Dominance - Need to Stop the Bleeding Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Allyson Chocolate is a problem, more so than sweet foods, I think it has to be the feel good factor. You could try taking glutamine, the brain can use this is place of glucose, so stops the drop in blood glucose. And of course progesterone helps, oestrogen destabilises blood glucose, see here. I'm so sorry about the stock out, I think it causes me more anguish than the user! The lab decided to take a 3 week break over Christmas/New Year, so we had to calculate how much they should make for us, to tide us over till they opened again. Unfortunately we didn't quite make it. I'm so pleased you reminded me about the SoftCup. I know the UK one called a Mooncup. My daughter and her friends all use them, brilliant things. I must remember to tell people about them, I wish they'd been around for me, would have saved many an embarrassing moment! Take care Wray
Jan 30, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: Wray

Hi RJ Wonderful words!!! How lovely you have 65 acres, I used to farm herbs, would love to go back to it. And yes once in P-M there's nothing much we can do about our cycles, but I do hope one day the bleeding will lessen and stop for you. Take care Wray
Jan 31, 2013
 Additional info and additional question
by: Allyson

I meant 80-100 twice a day... so it was really 160-200, and I was doing it for several years. And, I did have a Novasure procedure which greatly reduced my bleeding to begin with.

I am experimenting with spacing out my dose. The high dose stopped my bleeding but I know I am not out of the woods yet because I still feel symptom creep and get a little spotting at times when I can feel my progesterone declining - in the morning when I first get up if I don't start dosing immediately. I find I need to buck it back up right when I get up, and also after a meal.

I know it says it starts to decline after 13 hours but I feel it declining considerably faster than that right now - more like 6 or 7 at the most, especially in the morning, so I am just following my body and trying to avoid the slumps.

My body seems to be extremely sensitive right now.

We are also in winter here so the dark days do not help. I also notice that if I am not vigilant with my supplements I start to feel symptom creep.

On the day when my bleeding stopped, I was very diligent about applying it hourly and the dose was 500mg. That nite I got very bad cramps and after that the bleeding stopped. I wonder if anyone else has experienced cramping right before the bleeding stopped?

I realize that I have a long way to go before I reestablish my good progesterone balance and that in Perimenopause it is like chasing a moving target!!
Feb 01, 2013
 Additional info and additional question
by: Wray

Hi Allyson Thanks for this feedback, all very interesting. You are right about levels declining quickly, they can do, certainly if symptoms are bad, and progesterone is low. It does require constant topping up, one reason I suggest some use it hourly if that's the case. As you've found there's no hard and fast rule, each to their own. The problem I find lies in the way we take a drug. So the same gets applied to progesterone, one 'dose' will do for all, it doesn't work like that. You are far more sensitive to your bodies' needs than most of us! Dark days do not help, so please make sure your vitamin D level is kept high too. Besides it's cheaper than progesterone! I've not heard another speak about bad cramps prior to the bleeding stopping, it will be interesting if someone responds to this. A moving target is an apt description of peri-menopause! Keep in touch please. Take care Wray
Feb 01, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: RJ

Wray, I do get the cramping right before I stop. I believe we discussed this when I first started contacting you and we determined that we couldn't determine what was causing it. It is as though something in the pelvic area is in a vice. I also notice when I stop bleeding that I cannot hold the urine and have leakage until two or three days after bleeding has ceased and then all is normal until the bleeding comes again. You have a site that you sent someone about a doctor who gives alternatives to hysterectomies and on his site he discusses what a fibroid does during our bleed and I have speculated that possibly it is the pain of the fibroid finally shutting off that bleed for the remainder of the month. How's that sulfur smell going over there with you LOL....man that stuff is just awful Wray...just awful. But by golly it is working. I do believe it's cleaning out my intestinal system but good. God Bless!
Feb 02, 2013
 Perimenopuase - Estrogen Dominance - Need to stop continual bleeding
by: Wray

Hi RJ Well I had forgotten! And the site you mention is Dr West's site on hysts. I must read that again, as so many get fibroids with heavy bleeding too. I feel I should give the site to all of them. Oh RJ I couldn't do it another day! I don't mind the smell of the sulphur when drinking it, I put it in my water bottle with glutamine every day. I actually miss it if I drink plain water, love the sour taste. But to go around smelling of the stuff all day?! And then relaxing in my bath, I thought I was at some hot springs! Besides my skin felt sort of strange, almost sticky but that's not the right word. Magnesium does the same, I don't know how so many use that so called magnesium 'oil', which isn't oil at all, but water. As that does the same thing. But I'm glad it's giving you a good clean out! Bless you too, take care Wray
Feb 02, 2013
 Perimenopause - Stop continual bleeding follow up
by: Allyson

Well, I definitely do not have any fibroids (attested by all the recent testing, I have no fibroids, no cysts, no signs of endo or adeno as could be measured, no hyperplasia, etc.) but I did get that feeling of constricted muscle when the bleeding stopped.

It felt muscular to me, like the uterus shutting off or something.

I was doing great for nearly a week and today tried to stretch out my "topping off" doses by spreading them out a little further.

Cocky mistake on my part.

Sure enough, 15 minutes before the time I was due to top off - a sudden hot flash and bleeding!

And again, when I took my full dose, I felt that shutting off feeling again very clearly! It is rather strange!

The good news is that about one hour before, I identified that little anxiety feeling and I said to myself, I bet that is my estrogen spiking or my progesterone fading - so hopefully the next time I can recognize that feeling sooner and know to top if off promptly.

If that even makes sense!

So obviously I need to stick with my higher dose and topping off schedule for a while longer til I restore my P as the dominant hormone!

I am clearly not anywhere near there yet! The minute my P drops, I have the bleeding again

How much time does one think one should be stable with one dose/schedule before attempting to cut back or stretch out a bit?

Clearly a week is not enough!!!

A month? Two months?

Or during peri is it a hopeless cause and just plan on slathering on 400-600gm a day for months or years?

All comments welcome.
Feb 03, 2013
 Perimenopause - Stop continual bleeding follow up
by: Wray

Hi Allyson I'm pleased you don't have fibroids etc. I have no explanation for the 'constricted muscle'. I'm not sure what you mean by your 'topping off' dose. Do you mean you are trying to reduce the amount? If so I've found it essential to stay on the amount that helps for at least 2-3 months before attempting to reduce it. In some women it takes far longer, 6 months to a year or more. It depends on so many factors. High Stress will necessitate using high amounts for months. You might like to read this page here. Andrea has been using 400mg/day for over a year now due to her very stressful life. Peri-M is a difficult time, very difficult. Fluctuating hormones are so difficult to deal with. Progesterone does help to smooth it out, it's finding out the right amount to use which can take time. To be followed by a reduction in symptoms. It took me months, as I was only using the low amounts typically recommended. I knew nothing about the higher amounts until I met Dr Dalton months later. I don't think I would have continued with it, but for the fact it had stopped my hot flushes. Not wanting these back I continued with it, and gradually noticed things I'd put down to 'ageing' were actually going. Until finally, about 6 months later, I realised all my 'ageing' problems had gone. I then became fascinated by what it could do, hence this website. Take care Wray
Feb 09, 2013
 Topping off
by: allyon

Thanks for the response!

By topping off I meant instead of applying 20 gm every hour, to apply 40 every two hours.

That works for me in the afternoon and evening but not in the morning because 8 hours is my limit and so when I wake up it is like I need to bolster my level to jump start the day. 20 gm hourly will not tide me over in the morning. But by 2 pm it seems like I have a good balance going and a 40 gm every twomhours is fine.

Right now I am doing best with 180 at night supplemented by 20 if I get up in the moddle of the night and 80 as soon as I get up.

Then 20 every hour thru the day. By about 2 pm I can start doing 40 every two hours instead as mentioned.

It is a lot but once my dr agreed it is safe in high amounts I am not concerned and I feel excellent. Other thqn a little light spotting I feel terrific.

I am not going to upset the applecart for now and think about reducing itl I fell good for at least two or three months.

After one month i might try to substitute more 40 every two hours or 60 every 3 or 80 every 4 and see what happens.

There is no way I can currently go 12 hours right now. Even getting thru eight hours at night pushes my limit!!! I feel best if I wake up after six hours and "top off my progesterone" with 20. It seems to keep me feeling more stable.

So for now I have something that works and am sticking with it!
Feb 09, 2013
 One other comment
by: Alyson

I also notice that different brands seem to absorb differently. Some seem to work more quickly than others.

As i learn how i react to each brand I can better time my doses!
Feb 12, 2013
 Topping off
by: Wray

Hi Allyson Thanks for explaining about the topping off. I'm delighted you've found a protocol which works for you. Each one of us is different, some make do on twice a day, but I find I still use it 3-4 times a day. I'm also delighted you have a doctor who says it's safe! It has an unparalleled safety record, in the over 60 years it's been used, there is not one report of any adverse affect. Besides this study by Emory University showed ultra high amounts showed no signs of toxicity, only benefits. Such a pity it's not better known. I'm so pleased you've experimented with different brands. The thicker the cream, the less the progesterone is absorbed. Oils and gels are not as good a carrier as creams either, see our page on Progesterone Misconceptions. Have you tried the Natpro yet? I would like your opinion of that too. We do know it's absorbed well from Saliva Tests we run. Take care Wray
Feb 12, 2013
 Brands
by: Allyson

Well it works now but I'm learning that does not mean It will tomorrow.

I would love to try NatPro but still have not been notified about availability!

I kind of have to work with what I have!

If I could eventually get to 3-4 applications per day I would be thrilled.

Right now I am just thrilled to be somewhat stable!
Feb 14, 2013
 Brands
by: Wray

Hi Allyson I think you've hit the nail on the head. There are so many things which disrupt the flow of progesterone, causing levels to drop, the amount does have to be adjusted suit. These are some of them......

lack of or drop in vitamin D.... are you taking it, or missed a dose, or spent lots of time indoors?
high oestrogen.... aromatase, which converts testosterone into oestrogen, is working over time, or SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) is low, this binds oestrogen making it inactive
high testosterone.... SHBG is low, this binds testosterone making it inactive. Sugars drop SHBG, they also drop progesterone levels
high LH.... the pituitary is working over time trying to make an egg develop, secrete testosterone and oestrogen, and then ovulate
high FSH....the pituitary is working over time trying to make an egg develop, secrete testosterone and oestrogen, and then ovulate
high stress...... this converts most of the available progesterone into cortisol
high adrenaline (comes from stress or excitement, and a drop in blood glucose)..... this stops progesterone entering the cells
sugars of any kind.... they drop progesterone, plus dropping blood glucose, plus dropping SHBG
large meals..... because of the increased metabolic clearance of progesterone
alcohol.... this reduces progesterone levels and increases the androgens, ie testosterone
insulin.... increase caused by eating large meals, sugars, or meals containing sugar or starchy carbs
high level of phytoestrogens in the diet.... ie grains and legumes, soy milk, tofu etc these all act as oestrogen
oestrogenic herbs.... often given to women to help with symptoms

I've been on the site and found stock is in now, there must be a back log of emails waiting to be sent out. I've also made enquiries and heard there's now aplenty of stock in, so here's hoping there won't be another stock out! Last year we were hit by an internet fraud, we lost over a 1000 tubes, a few were returned, so we were short of about 800 tubes. Plus the lab who makes the cream took a far longer break over Christmas than they normally do. All this caused many stock outs over the past few weeks. Delighted to hear you're getting more stable, it is trial and error, and persistence too! Take care Wray

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