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Hair loss - Dim causing hair to shed

by Nicole

After a long time on progesterone with not much luck and only hair loss (receding front and back) I decided to try dim alongside calcium d glucarate as I could not afford to increase the Natpro.

2 days in and my hair is shedding. I was really hoping this to be my magic bullet alongside 300mg of progesterone (and strict diet with no sugar etc and all the recommended supplements on here).

Should I discontinue the dim? I've taken CDG alone before without any hair shed.

I am at a loss and cannot cope with any more hair loss. I simply do not know what to try next for my hormonal problems.

Was praying the dim would help.

Comments for Hair loss - Dim causing hair to shed

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Apr 22, 2017
 Hair loss
by: Lisa

I had an episode of many combinations of things causing me to lose about half of my hair.

I tried everything, including biotin. It took a couple of years, but it finally came back.

In December, I started taking 1,000 mg of inositol per day. I cannot believe how my hair growth and fullness just took off! It's fuller and longer than it's been in years!

I would check with your Doctor before taking any supplements, but it's just an antioxidant. I highly recommend it!
Apr 22, 2017
 Hair loss- causing hair to shed
by: Kaye

Hi, just read your comment.

You didn't mention any testing on your thyroid? Have you had that checked?

You might want to check out Dr. Rachael Kellermans info. I just finished reading an article about him and his clinic in NY.

Might check it out.

Hair loss is big symptom of dysfunctional thyroid.

K
Apr 23, 2017
 Hair Loss - Dim causing hair to shed
by: Joy

Hi Nicole

You don't mention your age or your Vitamin D3 level.

A number of things can cause hair loss, please read the page on it. Stress, thyroid, too much vitamin A and hormones not being balanced, can all cause it. Usually 100-200mg per day is needed, more if symptoms are severe, you used 300mg which is a good amount. It should be used every day if in Peri-Menopause or Menopause.

DIM does not help to reduce estrogen as we are all lead to believe, but CDG certainly does. I would stop with the DIM. Have you had your thyroid level tested and do you know what your Vitamin D3 level is? A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone and is connected to every single cell function in our bodies. Please do not forget that Magnesium is needed as an important co-factor. If magnesium, vitamin D3 and progesterone are used correctly you should notice a big difference, but please get your thyroid level tested if you have not done so already.

Please read the following pages:

How to use Progesterone Cream

Estrogen Dominance

Peri-Menopause

Menopause

Stress

Vitamin D3

Magnesium

Hair Loss
Apr 24, 2017
 Hi it is me
by: Nicole

Hi Joy it is nice to speak to you again, thank you so much for responding. I am the same person who emailed you last year.

I have been on Natpro for 2 years and my hair has severely receded front and back in that time.

I began the Ray Peat way of eating but it did little for me and I'm truly at a loss and could no longer stay positive so have ended up asking for help once again. I feel I can no longer continue like this.

I had some blood results last year. Vit D was 138 nmol. TSH 1.7 mu and Free T4 12.3 pmol. My progesterone was 13 nmol (a week before my period though I remember starting period a bit sooner than expected) and Estradiol 532 pmol. My FSH 4.1 and LH 4.4

My ferritin seemed a little low at 34 ug but I don't believe that his affects receding hair pattern, plus iron supplements (ferrous fumarate) have not helped.

I take all the supplements Wray recommends. The high amounts of NAC, Inositol, magnesium, b vits, some vitamin c plus selenium and zinc. I avoid A, I have done since I took Accutane 8 years ago other than short periods of taking a multivitamin which was in the years before, then during pregnancy.

I cannot seem to raise my progesterone and instead I continue to stimulate estrogen and have lost inches of hair in total, plus all over thinning. I recently began iodine though I have used this in the past and had not noticed any changes to hair other than it making it very dry which I believe is a detox effect
(iodine detoxes bromide?)

I have been on high doses of Natpro 600mg with nothing but receding hair as a reward. I can no longer afford higher amounts so I have been on 300mg for quite some time now since last summer.

I have changed to Wray's advice on eating and am not consuming sugar or gluten, I have a high amount of protein which includes gelatine plus I take coconut oil.

I cannot stress that I cannot afford private testing, I am at the mercy of my NHS gp who does not like to do these kinds of tests no matter how much I cry in the office. It's an anti depressant or go home.

I am having to sell things on eBay to make enough every month for the Natpro and supplements.

I have a 2 year old daughter and so far I am ruining her childhood because of all my problems which I feel guilty for. So I'm trying desperately, desperately hard to make myself better.

Right now I'd settle for my hair receding to stop and grow back. There are times I wish I hadn't messed with hormones like this but I'm too scared to come off now as I was a mess before the Natpro now I'm still a mess but with significantly less hair plus my face has changed a lot in the past 2 years. I have lost a lot of facial fat around my temples and cheeks and eyes, I look very different to when I first began Natpro.

I just want to believe that I can hit that P:E2 ratio and feel better and grow my hair back. I just don't know what to try next. I'm truly desperate and seem to research all the time. It seemed dim helped some but not me. I will stay on the CDG though.

Any information or help is truly appreciated, by anyone at all.

I'm becoming severely depressed again whenever I look in the mirror, I just want to get in bed and not wake up until I'm better. Every day is a struggle right now, I can't seem to just plod on and think positive like I have the past 10 months or so.
Apr 24, 2017
 Lisa and Kaye
by: Nicole

I forgot to mention my age - I am 31.

Thank you so much for your comments.

I had my TSH and free t4 tested last year but both gp's refused to test anything else, especially as they knew I had been using progesterone cream which they attributed the hair loss to (and in a way they are right as it appears as though the progesterone cream merely stimulates estrogen from testosterone in me, causing the hair loss).

I have read of many people taking thyroid medication and no change to their hair, so even if I needed it I feel like it wouldn't serve me well anyway and I would just have further problems.

Everything I do seems to cause trouble. I'm truly at a loss. As you can see I'm feeling quite negative right now which I apologise for. I've tried really hard for so long and am starting to believe there is no hope for me.

P.S. I take 500mg inositol both morning and night but noticed no effect on hair. Maybe I need more for the effect but I could not afford to increase.

I shall read the info you suggested, thank you K.
Apr 24, 2017
 For Joy
by: Nicole

I also forgot to say that I am using the Natpro Cream daily as my symptoms are severe (especially bad just before and at the start of period plus ovulation) and have often wondered about following my cycle in case this is more effective but I just don't know.

I am terrified to reduce or stop the Cream now as i wonder if I will just end up completely suicidal and trying to take my life again like before I got pregnant.

Since starting dim with the CDG 5 days ago I certainly feel worse in the morning (crying, severely depressed, no hope, almost suicidal etc) but in the late afternoon/evening I begin to feel better and more positive.

I wonder if my cortisol affects this but have no hope of testing it.

I am just left to drown by every doctor I see (and I have seen plenty in recent years about all this.)

Is there any hope for me, I'm clinging on to the success stories of others.
Apr 24, 2017
 Slight error
by: Nicole

So after a quick discussion with my partner who helps me with supplements I have been on 1000mg inositol and 1000mg nac morning and evening.

I also take glycine with this.

I am considering l tyrosine and/or taurine, I'm not sure if they will benefit me and I can only take so many things due to cost.
Apr 24, 2017
 Apologies for so many posts
by: Nicole

Apologies for the influx of questions but perhaps anybody reading this could help. I have another hair issue that is different from the loss.

A few years after taking accutane, a large portion of the hairs on my head (no particular pattern though maybe more so at the back of the head perhaps) changed texture completely from straight to a kinky kind of curl. Not a wave or normal curl like on a curly haired person, but very strangely kinked, sometimes just the tip of the hair but sometimes the whole hair.

They are also wiry and coarse alongside the strange kinking pattern, it's like nothing you've seen before (not normal curls of the hair).

I didn't experience hair loss or receding hair on or after the drug just the kinking about 2 years later (so about 6 years ago.)

They also appear more coppery orange in colour than the rest of my hair. I do have a golden blonde but certainly not orange colour!

It has always distressed and perplexed me as I can find no information on how to help this. I think that's why the hair loss I had from progesterone cream in the past 2 years has upset me even more - I already had this strange hair issue to begin with. I was even hoping progesterone could help the kinking but no such luck.

If only I could go back in time and shake my young self.

Life just doesn't seem worth the effort sometimes but I keep trying and hoping for something to help me.
Apr 24, 2017
 Check your iron too
by: Gale

Also - if you haven't had your iron checked, check that too. Not just Serum iron, but also Ferritin.

I have seen a lot of chatter on hair loss forums that many have seen success when they discovered their iron (mostly ferritin) was too low.

Once they got their iron levels up, they saw shedding stop.

I found out my Ferritin was extremely low - nowhere near the levels stated for normal hair growth - and I've been supplementing Iron for about 2 months and my shedding has lessened, but not stopped.

I do see lots of new little hairs popping up too, nothing earth shattering, but promising, and I just noticed my eyelashes are growing longer and thicker. My lower lashes are really thick which I've never experienced before!

So, please have your Iron checked. I've heard you shouldn't supplement Iron until you know you have a deficiency because too much Iron is definitely bad.

That said, if you're menstruating and/or peri-menopausal with heavy periods and a low-iron diet, chances are you may be low in iron.
Apr 25, 2017
 Thanks Gale
by: Nicole

Thank you Gale.

I did have ferritin tested last year and it seemed low to me, especially for my hair which I read is supposed to be at least 70. Mine was early 30's.

I was scared to supplement at first as I'd read all about the dangers of excess iron (especially as we age) but then I began ferrous fumarate 210mg a day. I also eat some red meat every week with a bit of fruit juice for the C to aid absorbtion.

My vitamin D was still slightly out of range a year ago but I have continued to supplement with 10,000 to 15,000 iu and feel that should have raised it by now. In fact I'm scared I may become toxic pretty soon and should perhaps lower it!

I only notice shedding when I try things like pregnenlone (even 1mg a day for a week makes me shed!!) and dim.

The dramatic receding hair at the hairline and nape of neck (which is very bad) is, indirectly, from the progesterone cream. I appear to be stimulating estrogen which is first converted from testosterone, so the testosterone rises which results in this type of hair loss. This is what I made out from all of Wray's responses.

If I could raise my P.E2 ratio I feel like I might have success like many others. I'm trying to figure how to do this without increasing the Cream which I cannot afford to.

I'm so desperate I feel like selling a kidney so I can try super higher doses of Natpro. Only joking of course but really I do feel that level of desperate.

So far my whole life has been one of absolute misery with only small rays of sunshine to keep me going. I'm not sure how much longer. I'm trying to keep hope but it is hard.

I used to want to help people in life as a job, now I can't even help myself it seems.
Apr 25, 2017
 Hi it is me
by: Joy

Hi Nicole

Well it took me some time to realise who you were, I speak to so many people each day and plenty Nicole's.

It was only when I read your comment about curly hair that I began to remember.

I seem to recall you also posting something along these lines on my Facebook Group, or am I mistaking you for someone else? I also recall someone saying that she too found that her hair changed when starting menopause. Menopause can bring on some really strange symtpoms, all very frustrating.

I would like to see a higher vitamin D3 level though. Your P:E2 ratio is 24:1 as you know it should be around 600:1. I am also baffled as to why your level is not rising as you have been using Natpro for 2 years.

Here is a list of things that can cause levels to drop.

* lack of or drop in Vitamin D3 levels
* high estrogen
* high testosterone
* high LH
* high FSH sugars of any kind
* large meals
* alcohol
* stress
* insulin resistance
* high level of phytoestrogens in the diet

Wray and I have given you the Hormone Testing page to read previously to compare your other levels. I am pleased that you do not take vitamin A, but if deficient, beta carotene should be the only form. I take it that you have read the Hair Loss page as well?

If you ferritin level is low, that could also be a cause. As mentioned, drop the DIM and continue with CDG, remembering of course that all these things take time and will upset the body in the beginning.

I wish that I could help you further with this Nicole. Wray and I have given you as much info as we can. If you feel that the therapy is not helping you, then perhaps you should stop with the Natpro, reduce very slowly and see how you get on with that. Of course this will see the return of your ED symptoms.

BTW, one can take up to 8000mg of inositol per day without seeking medical advice. This amount is usually taken for those suffering from insomnia.

I hope that you find relief soon.

Take care.
Apr 25, 2017
 Hair loss
by: Anonymous

Sometimes Nicole, we look for answers, the magic bullet to the problems we face.

We become obsessed and all this obsession does is lead to more stress and lack of balance in the body and mind.

No one is saying your issue isn't real, as I myself face similar issues over hair loss. The truth is, the more we obsess, look for THE answer "out there", there is none... when we force it.

The body has the ability to heal. People with major diseases have experienced it. Why is that so? Is it just "positive thinking" which is another way of forcing really?

In one instance, a woman virtually dying, decided to LOVE her condition instead of fighting it and hating it…and so on.

The more love she brought to herself, the more the illness resolved.

How can we define such things? Our trillions of cells listen to every word and thought we have, and although the issues we face are frightening, depressing and debilitating, the more we breathe into those areas, i.e.. your hair, and send it love, the better we begin to hear the answers and the direction we need to take, which may in fact be a supplement or hormone or whatever.

I strongly suggest you look into EFT - emotional freedom technique, or better known as Tapping. This is an amazing tool which can help absolutely to shift the emotions you are dealing with, the emotions that say "nothing can help me".

I am not saying your hair will grow back instantaneously, but your attitude towards it will, allowing the body to do its thing, which is to heal.

The more relaxed the mind, the better able we receive the messages from our bodies and what the best step forward is.

Sometimes I believe the less we do to interfere the better. I tried every this and that in the way of supplements, healers, doctors, you name it and then I said to myself: listen to yourself without forcing to find THE ANSWER.

I am not in any way suggesting supplementation with vitamins etc., or hormones such as the wonderful progesterone are worthless. On the contrary, I believe in them hugely. What I mean is, our "mind set" has to shift. Believe in the wisdom of your body. Try the techniques that will help to relax your way of thinking such as the Tapping. It is so simple to do and so powerful! Don't laugh. It works!

Dr. Kim D'Eramo on youtube is very special. She is a Mind/Body Doctor. Listen to her story. She has one video (amongst several) about tapping when "feeling hopeless".

Think of it this way: You are doing your best and these things you are taking are helping. You are not to blame yourself for trying what you have felt was the right thing to do at that particular moment. The fact that you are still searching is the proof of strength within you not to give up.

You have every reason to continue and not give up. You are a young woman. Whatever age, one shouldn't give up. Be kind and loving to yourself.

Instead of racking your brain to find THE answer, let it go. When you look into the mirror, see what you do like about yourself and send love to your hair and scalp with compassion. I know it's hard when you look and see receding etc, I know. If this sounds silly, I assure you it is not. I never used to believe in such things. How wrong I was. You will no longer be in "fight or flight" mode. This is what I believe.

Sorry if I sounded more philosophical than you would wish to hear.

There exists the miraculous ability within the body itself to heal.

Don't give up on this ever.

I believe this and the hope it brings is invaluable.
Apr 25, 2017
 Couple of quick question
by: Nicole

Hi Joy

Thank you so much for responding. That wasn't me on Facebook, I have never been on Facebook or any kind of social media. Is this person like me? I would love to speak to them if so, can you give any details or are you not allowed?

It appears as though unless I can magically afford huge amounts of Natpro I may never find relief, and the inches of hair I lost on Natpro is likely gone for good. How soul destroying. I feared this to be the case. I hope this helps somebody and demonstrates to people not to persevere for too long if you do have hair loss.

I will stick around on these forums in case anyone can help or just has a similar case and wants to be in touch.

One more question if you could help Joy, is there a chance progesterone will always turn into something else for some of us (estrogen, testosterone, cortisol etc) and never work normally like it does for most women? So even thousands of mg will never help us as it will always convert to something else?

Wow I am trying so hard to not break down right now, there truly may be no hope for me.

If I ever have any success you can be sure I will post it somewhere.
Apr 26, 2017
 For anonymous
by: Nicole

Thank you so much for such a lovely and positive post, I really needed to read something positive this morning and hear a friendly voice.

You have helped me and every voice I hear makes me feel less alone in this struggle. I know a lot of what you say is right. Recently I can't seem to overcome searching for further clues and answers, this both helps and hinders.

I feel hope at finding new ways to heal my body and filling in the pieces of the puzzle. But I feel negative when I read how few have overcome their issues (particularly hair issues.) So it's a double edged sword.

I have dabbled with some mindful techniques before, admittedly unsuccessfully. The info you have given is great and I will be checking that out, thank you so much.

I do think you are right and positive thinking helps massively. I have phases where I can do this. Times like right now it is a serious struggle. But I always feel more positive when I'm doing something proactive to help myself.

The tapping technique sounds really good, I'm going to try this for sure. I know the mind is a valuable tool and it is something I battle with daily.

I still believe in progesterone, however I don't know if it will help me unless I can use higher amounts. The supplements certainly do have an effect, they are valuable too.

I feel like I can't give up, not without a fight. I'm scared of coming off the cream (I've had small improvements) incase my brain malfunctions again and I actively try to do myself in again.

I've come too far to throw in the towel, my daughter needs me but also she needs me to be well. My hormones have ruled my entire adult life and I cannot give up without a fight.

Thank you again anonymous and bless you for taking the time to message me.
Apr 27, 2017
 hair loss
by: Anonymous

I am so glad that you responded the way you have to my earlier post. Thank you for your kind words.

Nicole, the fact that you "feel" what you feel is your inner voice speaking to you and guiding you. Listening to ones instincts is the most important thing we have at our disposal. It is the gift within.

Your instincts tell you that progesterone is helpful. It is Nicole. Think of what it would be like without this marvelous hormone. The imbalance occurred before using it and imbalances take time to find their home again. That's really all it is.

Hair loss is emotional because as a woman we feel less of a woman. But remember, we are a human being first. Does it make us less of a human being to have a time of imbalance? No.

Every moment of every day is the opportunity to heal, by living in the moment, not the past nor the future. When our mind is trying so hard to "control" the situation, to find the answer to the problem, the effort put forth is far greater than we actually need.

Letting go and staying in the calm center / core of our being, is where answers appear. The techniques I mentioned are powerful, such as Tapping and also Meditation (Deepak Chopra is one of the greatest teachers and there many videos on line)

Actually Nicole, I am grateful for the issues I have had myself over hair thinning. In fact all challenges are opportunities to deal with life more powerfully. Had I not had that issue, I would never have been led to things like Meditation, Tapping, all sources which helped me to deal with this with greater awareness, rather than stress over and over and over again.

Yes, there are days when I would like not to have had the problem to begin with and feel impatient, as it were, but then I remember to go deep within myself by breathing deeply into those concerns, those fears, and meditate. The sense of calm comes over me and reassures me that: The body can heal. It is never your enemy.

Please look up those videos with Dr. Kim D'Eramo. Her own story, although not having had hair loss but other auto immune issues, reveals how she overcame them by changing how she responded; how she shifted her thinking. If you go to her site on line, you can download very inexpensively ($29) her Mind/Body Tool Kit.

Things like this I recoiled from years ago. I would never have wanted to utilize such advice from others in this way. I was too proud. Her story, as well as many others, is proof that we can heal anything.

The body is there for you. It is not our enemy. Hair can grow back. Yours will. Even though I would like mine to be fuller, I see some improvement. It's a slow process.

What doesn't help in the least is stressing about it and thinking desperately how to resolve it. Your instincts guided you to this forum. Your instincts led you to progesterone. In so far as the expense, there is one other cream less expensive than Natpro. It is called Ona's. You can look it up. It is the only other one with high levels of progesterone at varying strengths. I hope this site forgives me, but I have to mention that other cream.

Try the techniques I mentioned, these will connect you to your body in ways you never did before. It's not about "positive thinking" per se. It's about trust and hope. There's a difference. Positive thinking is forced, the other EXISTS. You need to connect, that's all.

Continue with your progesterone, take more inositol, it's brilliant. I take two 1/2 tsp. every night, it's very calming, and if there is hair shedding, it will stop it in its tracks. And vitamin D is crucial, the levels should be in optimal range: between 70 -100ng/ml.

Also, if I may, you mentioned you took pregnenolone? Personally, I would not take it, as it is the precursor to all the hormones and that includes testosterone.

Estrogen dominant or whatever Nicole, once you shift your mind's response to this issue, once you think from the heart instead of the mind, I believe you will find within yourself the best ally, the best healer there is: YOU. You will "listen" from a state of calm, and greater awareness will guide you.

"You are a Radiant Spiritual Being" …
Say to yourself: "I am perfection, I am healthy , I am strong" These are the teachings of Deepak Chopra and worth passing on..
Apr 27, 2017
 Hair Loss
by: Laura

I think you are relying too much on the progesterone to be your magic bullet.

First, don't stop using progesterone. I'm sure you need it, but you state you have low iron and you've never really been checked properly for thyroid issues.

As far as I know, progesterone opposes estrogen, etc. It should not be constantly stimulating other hormones in your body if you are using 300ml daily of Natpro (that's exactly what I use).

You have other issues going on and those need to be fixed. I don't understand why your doctors would refuse to do tests. I'm assuming you have insurance? It's not like they are paying for the tests. Your entire thyroid panel (tsh/free t4/free t3/reverse t3/thyroid antibodies) should be checked along with your iodine level and iron level.

Selenium and zinc play a role in your hair and definitely Vit. D3, and magnesium RBC should be checked too. Mineral deficiencies and thyroid issues play a major role in hair issues.

Once you have a picture of any deficiencies in your body you can go from there. After all those are balanced, the progesterone will only enhance your health. But don't stop progesterone while you are balancing everything else.

I struggled with all of the above minerals and my thyroid (t3) being out of range and I thought it was the progesterone because every time I made the slightest change to up my progesterone dose, my hair would shed.

Now that I have everything in balance, I can slightly change the dose of progesterone (if I feel stressed, etc. and think I need more on a particular day), I can apply a little more and my hair does not shed.

I was recently experiencing some eyebrow and eyelash shed and found out my iodine was again low so my doc upped my dose to two drops per day instead of one and the eyebrow/eyelashes stopped shedding.

Also, I only use pink Himalayan salt. It's loaded with minerals.

Don't give up. All my issues with hair loss/deficiencies/thyroid started right after my daughter was born. She is now 15 and I just recently got my issues sorted out in the last couple years.

Good luck!
May 03, 2017
 Anonymous
by: Nicole

Hi anonymous. Thank you for taking the time to help me.

I went to visit my mum and grandma so I could get out of this negative routine I was in, and it did help, so sorry this is a little bit late reply. Sometimes I just spend too much time on the internet, or thinking of what to research next when I get time. I needed to break from that for a while.

You write so profoundly may I say, and the things you say have really affected me - I have found myself reading it over to really absorb. You sound like a pretty great person and I'm certain many must admire you in your life! I'm going to work as hard as possible on myself. Depending upon where I am in my cycle it can be much easier said than done of course.

For example before my period and at the start I'm basically at the mercy of severe depression and negative thinking and can not handle the smallest amount of stress. I just can't engage my brain to think differently despite all efforts. Almost like I'm being controlled by somebody else. Then when it passes, although I still feel these symptoms they are much milder and I am much more capable of using mindful techniques and thinking in a different way.

What you say about positive thinking being forced is so very true! So I very much like the idea of allowing myself to enter a place where I truly believe and where this hope just simply exists. Again my brain seems to like to work against me so I know this will not be an overnight change. I do think this is one of the biggest areas I need to work on and reading posts like yours, and knowing that others have been able to achieve this just inspires me so much, so thank you so much for that.

In fact I do think I would benefit from knowing inspiring people like this in my life. My family are miles away and I only have my partner and daughter. I'm too shy to make friends and most females I come across do not have this amount of problems in their life and would likely think I am weird. Everybody my age seems obsessed with taking gorgeous selfies of themselves and posting their (seemingly) happy lives on Facebook and accumulating material possessions and just generally competing with each other. Why would normal people want anything to do with somebody like me I often think. I have never done social media as I just don't fit in to that world. If only I could even have some online support with somebody who is just like me. Just somebody to talk to on the good days and the bad. I wish if Joy knew someone she could see if they want contact. I'm not sure Joy really has the time to help as much though but this is completely understandable.

Even though I've had a really rough time this website has been like a lifeline to me and I'm so grateful.

Sorry I got a little rambly there. This other cream sounds like it has the potential to help me within my budget! I cannot thank you enough for that recommendation. I'm sure Wray would not mind - I know she only ever wanted to help us no matter what Cream we used and she understands that cost is an issue for some of us. I don't think she would want poorer people to not have access to progesterone therapy, even if that meant another brand. I know that Natpro is the best I've tried and on low amounts I will always want Natpro (not just because it is such good quality but also to support Wray for all her hard work to help us too) but I am struggling so badly mentally and emotionally that I need help and I think she would want me to find a solution. In fact I've even read posts where she continues to give answers and guidance even though she knows the person is on different brands of cream - that is the kind of person she was! She was incredible. I often find myself thinking oh I wonder what Wray would think about ashwaganda or something like that. Her ability and effort to research and find evidence to give answers to people was unmatched.

That's why people like you are so valuable to this site anonymous. We all have to help each other. I will always update my findings to this site in case it helps anyone.
May 03, 2017
 Part 1
by: Nicole

Hi Laura thanks so much for that info.

Very interesting that your troubles began after having your daughter. Although I had troubles before I do feel they have worsened since pregnancy! Despite the fact we make 400 progesterone at the end of pregnancy I was still suffering with the dry coarse hair and dry eyes and terrible pains and anxiety/mild depression. (I was basically psychotic during the first three months and almost landed myself in psychiatric care at hospital - I had NO idea it was hormones I just thought, hey that's me!) So this tells me I would need more progesterone than that amount to overcome estrogen dominance and also that despite normal Tsh and free t4 I may actually have thyroid troubles. It also tells me I was likely deficient in things.

Here in the U.K. We have the NHS which is funded and you only pay a set amount if you get a prescription. You don't pay for blood tests etc however this means you have to fight tooth and nail for any treatment you want. They are always overstretched and would be in trouble if they were ordering tests and specialists for everyone. So basically if your life is not immediately at threat (cancer etc) you are going to have a huge fight to get any help. Even if you are suicidal they will just give you anti depressants and send you for counselling.

Of course you can get the tests you want privately however that costs a considerable amount - too much for people like me.

Now I did end up going to the doctors and having an emotional breakdown. She was actually very kind to me! She agreed to some tests but only certain ones could be done on the nhs unfortunately - no dhea or free testosterone or cortisol or thyroid antibodies.

I will be getting a full thyroid panel minus the antibodies though which means I get to see my t3 levels. I will be having serum testosterone plus another progesterone and estradiol, plus SHBG and prolactin, as well as iron.

I know from a hair analysis a few years ago that I was severely deficient in selenium and all the b vitamins. I have been supplementing wildly alongside a good diet so without tests I can only pray these have helped! I would love to try injecting the B Vitamins as Ive heard they can do great things if you're of absorbing them through the gut properly. I will continue below
May 03, 2017
 Part 2
by: Nicole

I also had slightly low iodine, it wasn't a very accurate hair analysis, it just highlighted the word in red if very deficient, yellow if mildly deficient, and not highlighted at all if no signs of deficiency.

My iodine was yellow meaning a mild deficiency apparently. I have been so scared to take it after reading how bad excess iodine is (same with iron!) and just giving myself more problems.

I even read of a woman named Dana who appreared to trigger full blown alopecia after taking iodine. (She did a mercury detox it grew back but then fell out again a few years later, she no longer discusses health stuff by the way.) Anyway I began supplementing cautiously - one drop every other day (400mcg per drop).

The list below is my regime now

Vitamin B complex and extra Biotin
Vitamin B12 drops (just for a couple months till they run out)
Vitamin C 1500mg
Vitamin D3 10,000iu plus 5,000iu on skin (wondering if I am taking too much now and will end up toxic - my 50 score was a year ago!)
Zinc 30mg
Magnesium 400mg
Selenium 200mcg
Tyrosine 1000mg
NAC 2000mg
Inositol 4000mg
Glycine 2000mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mg
Calcium D Glucarate
Ferrous Fumarate 210mg
Iodine 400mcg every other day

I also take coconut oil (2 tablesooons) and gelatin daily. I have been considering taurine. I eat little pufa and have changed my diet recently too, high protein, better carb and no sugar except small amount of fructose. This feels strange after doing ray peat but if all that glucose and fructose was keeping my shbg low then no wonder I struggled with progesterone.

I don't know really. I've kept some of Ray's ways as I do think he is right about a lot of stuff. But all our bodies are different. I started Chlorella with the iodine. If I take iodine every day my hair is even dryer from the detox effect, like straw it just snaps. I only just began the ALA after reading someone's experience here with oxidative stress and progesterone not working until that was resolved.

I'm just writing all this down in case it helps anybody. A few of these changes are fairly recent and if I do increase my progesterone there's a chance down the road I may have success. Who knows. All I can do is try try try.

I was due to have bloods done next Monday on day 21 of my cycle - unfortunately I started another period only a week after my last one. I had regular cycles last year too! So now I have to wait. And if I increase the cream I think it might throw my results off now anyway? Tricky really.

I already know that in my follow up appointment they are going to offer me a progesterone only birth control to help. She was very kind about it all and asked me to take a leap of faith with it. In fact she was just so lovely to me I almost wanted to accept the progesterone bcp! I had all my research but unfortunately nhs just hasn't heard of all these things on here.

Anyway
May 03, 2017
 Hi Laura
by: Nicole

I realise I rambled quite a bit in my last posts and forgot to ask you something, not sure if you will read this now or not though.

You mentioned your thyroid and t3 issues. Did you end up supplementing thyroid to correct this you mean? (I'm hoping to get t3 tested in several weeks however if I increase my Cream before this it might change my results. I'm using iodine with selenium and tyrosine to help thyroid.)

Also just wanted to mention that along with the hair receding I also lost some inner part of eyebrows plus my eyelashes went thinner and sparse and shorter. I think hormones affect these things as well as thyroid - it all gets so tricky as they are all connected too! This happened over a year before starting any iodine. Perhaps iodine will help me too alongside the cream.

And for anyone else reading if you are sensitive to hair loss on progesterone I would probably be very cautious with pregnenolone - I only tried it as an experiment as I wasn't getting far with the Natpro. A full capsule made me explode with rage and feel aggressive then cry and be very depressed. It receded my hair a little more too. 1-2mg was hit and miss with my mood but still made my hair shed! I will be sticking with Progesterone only.

Sometimes on occasion I do feel actually more stressed and irritable/angry after applying progesterone. I can't pinpoint why but it seems to be going straight to cortisol or stimulating estrogen on those occasions. If this continues to happen on high doses I will be worried. I can't find any direct answers on whether it can turn into cortisol or estrogen for some people no matter what the dosage may be.

I also often wonder why some people even with severe problems that need high amounts of progesterone, don't have hair loss or hair receding even when they are getting estrogen dominance from it, yet others do.

The body is so complex. There's so many answers missing from the puzzle still. Perhaps our great granddaughters shall finally solve them. I hope so as women have suffered long enough.
May 03, 2017
 I understand 100% 😢
by: Anonymous

Sounds a lot like me.

I just started progesterone cream again and I'm hoping it helps however, I have the receding front and nape temples, thin sides and over all thinning after a bout on Wp thyroid.

It's depressing I often feel I'm in a nightmare never to waken. I've tried it all, my inositol, biotin, b vitamins, etc. etc. My troubles are high DHEAS, not extreme, however slightly over and enough to cause hair issues.

For me it too seems like all I do to try and at least halt the progression has only made it worse. Hoping that I don't have the same issue with pro cream.

Anyway I do firmly believe stress has an effect and makes the hair bad. It produces androgens and therefore hairloss if you are sensitive to them.

I pray we both find relief soon. No women should have these added issues to deal with peri and meno can be bad enough without the man hair too :(
May 04, 2017
 Thank you Nicole
by: Anonymous

I am glad Nicole that my words were of help in some way to you.

We are all here to help each other. That is the beauty of this site.

You are not alone in your concerns. Thousands of women have issues they feel only they are suffering with, when in fact there is most certainly masses of women with the exact same issues, and more.

This site proves it. Thank you Wray!

In so far as social media, I think there can be good aspects to it and not so good, depending on what one's reasons are for joining it in the first place. If it is for ego's sake, well, I doubt much is derived, other than something superficial and fleeting. On the other hand, if one is communicating openly, frankly and with compassion about issues that interest them and that they wish to share, I see nothing wrong with it. I think you have to be circumspect about it all.

In the case of issues like hair loss, etc., honestly Nicole, apart from this very site we are on now, I would be hesitant to go "viral", so to speak. There can be a lot of "opinions" out there that only confuse more. All you are searching for has to be sought from a state of calmness within, whatever source you find helpful.

Mind/Body is interconnected. What we think we become. Sorry if I reiterate that, but it is true Nicole. When you get into a state of upset and irascibility, and believe me I know what that is like having been a young woman once and still experiencing my moments now, as it is human to do so, the point is to find the techniques which will help you through those moments. It isn't about avoiding those feeling or pushing them away. It's about acknowledging them and releasing that energy. You have to know where to start.

The Tapping is enormously helpful, I promise you, in getting you to that place. That is of course my personal response and others may think it nonsensical. Is tapping into the meridians points in the body, which tapping is, nonsensical? I think not.

There is no "perfect moment" to begin this Nicole. In other words, you don't need to think that you have to be in the "right place emotionally" before you apply these tools. If anything, it is precisely in those moments of hysteria - let's call it out for what is is! - that you need it the most.

Until you can utilize those things to assist you, to shift those negative energies, the mind will not be in a state to "receive" the information you need to go forward.

You can but try. If after trying you don't like it, fine. Meditation is supreme to me. It's somewhat difficult to articulate because one can sound rather airy-fairy and esoteric. The fact is, it isn't that at all. It is accessible to everyone human being.

We all have heard the phrase life is a challenge. Yes it is. But why is it? It is, I believe, in order for us to realize that we have within ourselves the ability to take control of this.

We need the tools - the guidance. Tapping is the helpful tool in moments of tense emotions and stress. That's how I look at it. Meditation takes you to the "true self", where all is possible. I know it sounds "out there", but it is not. It is right here, now.

The list of supplements you are taking sound great. Glad to hear you are taking the inositol. Not only is it calming, but it does stop hair shedding, if that is a problem.

Also, you mentioned Taurine. It is superb! I personally taking 2,000mg every night along with B6 50mg.

On the subject of iodine, I am a huge believer. I highly recommend that you read Dr. David Brownstein's books on Iodine. He is perhaps the leading authority. The first of the myths about iodine on his list is that it does NOT cause low thyroid. There is a lot of iodine phobia out there. Pay no mind. I personally take around 8 drops of Lugol's %5 . that amounts to 50mg. When you read the accounts as described by Dr. Brownstein, and other leading authorities, you will see the benefits outlined. Yes, it is a detoxifier, amongst a myriad of other benefits. More importantly, at the right amount for you, you will see the difference it brings. You are taking very small amounts.

The best way Nicole, to judge whether you are perhaps low thyroid is to take your basal temperature first thing in the morning without getting out of bed. Place a thermometer under your arm. If using a digital, place it there for 10 minutes before turning it on. If your temperature is between 97.8 - 98.2, you should be okay. If below, that can indicate low thyroid. If that is the case I would strongly recommend you increase your iodine.

Tyrosine and Ashwagandha, selenium and hexaniacin and riboflavin (vitamin B2) are some of the vital co factors to support it. If you need extra support, there is a superb supplement called ThyroGold. It requires no prescription. It is a thyroid hormone.

I used to take prescription thyroid but did not like becoming only a series of numbers on blood tests, which can be very inaccurate anyway. I wanted to take control of this myself, and have.

Your basal temperature is the best test. Dr. Broda Barnes was the leading authority on thyroid hormone replacement and he himself said this very thing. Blood tests are inaccurate when it comes to thyroid more often than not.

I think Nicole, that you are doing many good things. Once you begin to shift (I use that word often , I know) these energies within yourself via the techniques mentioned now, at this very moment, not when "the moment is right", you will be able to deal with your concerns with greater calm and clarity.

The right moment, I repeat, is now.

Wishing you and everyone here the very best!
May 04, 2017
 Hair Loss
by: Laura

Hi Nicole, yes, I am on thyroid medication. I take slow-release T3 only (no T4). It was by trial and error (and literally years) and finding a doctor who was willing to do tests and had excellent knowledge of thyroid problems as she herself suffered from thyroid issues that we found I could not take T4 meds (only T3).

When I took T4, it would not convert into the active T3 like it was supposed to. Any T4 I had would convert to something called Reverse T3 (RT3) and it was wrecking havoc on my entire body. This Reverse T3 can be caused from a number of health issues.

Shortly after my child's birth, I lost an enormous amount of blood and that was never remedied. Months later, my hair started shedding and I was feeling very weak. A doctor finally tested my iron serum ferritin and it was at 8 (it should be above 70).

I started having heavy/clotting periods and I now know that while all this was going on, my progesterone was falling rapidly and obviously my iron was too.

I also developed low stomach acid, weak/sore muscles, acid reflux, extreme fatigue, dizziness, fibroids, belly fat, paranoia and a slew of other symptoms, too many to mention.

After MANY doctors (most thought I was crazy), and a lot of tests, a lot of constant mineral supplementation, three years of iron infusions every three months, loads of my own research and the right amount of natural progesterone and thyroid supplement, I am healthy.

The biggest struggle for me was getting my acid reflux under control because acid in your chest is very painful (I went to the ER 3 different times because of acid reflux) and they told me I was having anxiety.

My gastro doc said I was depressed and needed to be on meds. Of course I had anxiety and was depressed - I had acid in my chest and throat but no one was interested in addressing why the acid was there and on top of that, my hair was falling out.

The next biggest struggle was the awful blood loss from the heavy periods, hence all the infusions. I don't know why all this happened but I feel the start of my health issues was the blood loss after my child's birth. I was perfectly fine before my pregnancy and felt great during the entire pregnancy until after the delivery. Or, maybe the pregnancy threw my thyroid off and in turn my minerals depleted and my progesterone dropped because of perimenopause. Who knows...but if any of this helps anyone out there find answers, I am happy to tell my story here.

By the way, this site was the last piece of my health puzzle. So much information. I thank Wray for creating this abundance of information. I find lots of answers here. I come here often with a question and can usually just do a search and find an answer and I also thank her for Natpro!

It sounds like you are trying your best and you will get well.

May I suggest, if you can't get testing done easily where you live, maybe order one individual test each month (as funds permit) and go from there.

From going through my own health journey, while I am now able to step back and look at the whole picture, I feel my hair issues were a result of three things: thyroid, mineral deficiencies (iron/ magnesium/ vit D/ selenium/ zinc) and lack of progesterone. I did not get better until all three of those major issues were addressed and balanced.

Again, that is just my opinion for my own health journey.

Take care and good luck on your journey.
May 04, 2017
 Thank you Nicole. One more thing..
by: Anonymous

I wanted to say one more thing Nicole, if I may.

I urge you to try Dr. Kim D'Eramo's tapping videos as I mentioned already. Just go on to youtube and put in: Dr. Kim D'Eramo tapping. Then search for the one about feeling hopeless.

She shows you how to do the tapping. It is utterly easy, yet so powerful.

I sincerely hope this helps you Nicole.
May 09, 2017
 Please can anyone help, I am begging
by: Nicole

Hi

I was hoping to come back here with good news his week.

I began 1200mg progesterone 4 days ago. My mood was better and my skin better. I chose 1200 as I read Wray saying this would stop the initial estrogen dominance pretty quickly.

I noticed today my hair has receded another centimetre at the front and sides - the v shape at temples is now a large round circle. Also a little more at the back, with a little 1cm dip in the left side. It also went very dry underneath and turned to a more orange hue. I know this means it's going to fall out there too now.

I was so hopeful the last few days, feeling positive and not crying. I felt like I may have had some angry bursts but I've had these in lower doses too.

Am I still not taking enough?

Should I lower it immediately? I am scared to stop I was an absolute suicidal mess before.

If I continue to push through in case it's estrogen dominance will I just end up bald?

I can't function or look after my 2 year old like this.

I am starting to believe nothing will help me. I have aged incredibly. My skin is like that of someone ten or more years older.

I am actually thinking that accurate may have damaged me so I respond differently to other women.

I am fast losing hope and actually want to die again as I cannot live without hope of feeling better.

Doctors will not help me, only anti depressants and counselling.

I am no longer getting the light therapy for my birthday I am trying to look into real life looking wigs. I have awful skin and acne scars to boot. I look hideous.

I really feel like I would rather die even though I don't want to leave my girl. I just can't function like this or feeling so depressed.

Please please please from the bottom of my heart can anyone offer advice or similar accounts or any help at all. Please I am begging anyone reading this even if it's in the future.

I just do not know what to do.

May 09, 2017
 Dosage clarification
by: Nicole

I started 1000mg Friday then 1200 the other 4 days after reading what Wray said about it stopping the initial estrogen dominance much quicker.

I don't feel tearful or like crying as I usually do. I've been happier on the whole, was this just hope?, but I've reacted angrily to things. I had a little anger before but was more tearful usually.

The past few days I'm okay but if something has annoyed me I've reacted more angrily than usual.

What is happening to me

If i persevere with the higher dose I think I will go completely bald eventually. Lower dose I won't get anywhere, same result over longer time. If I stop completely I think I will try to commit suicide.

I don't want this, I want to be a normal woman and raise my daughter, I love her!

What is happening please can anyone help. I can not afford a private doctor, are there any willing to help on NHS that know about this? I will beg my gp for a referral.

I am trying so desperately desperately hard to be well. I feel like I am in a black hole of depression since I saw the hair loss. It's the realisation that I must be different to everyone and I am only going to have poor results, never any success.
May 09, 2017
 So sorry anonymous
by: Nicole

I am so so sorry for not being able to heed your advice and be calmer right now.

I tried the tapping, my hands are just frozen. I took all my calming supplements already.

I was doing so good until I saw this rapid receding in only a matter of days. That is quite unbelievable. I feared this in the back of my mind but I read all the positive comments regarding high doses and took a leap of faith. I thought I was feeling better apart from a few angry mood swings - this was much better than the severe depressive crying state I was weeks ago. I'm so confused now.

I am absolutely terrified of where to go from here, every minute is like an hour.

There is just no information out there I can find as to why this type of hair loss from progesterone is so sensitive for a few of us but not the rest.

Please if anyone has any advice.

I really feel like I am doomed to fail as I always have with everything I do just continuously making me look and feel worse. I want to go for a long sleep I just can't do this anymore!
May 09, 2017
 So sorry for my reaction
by: Nicole

I meant accutane not accurate above, sorry.

I truly am so sorry for not being able to react to this in all the positive ways anonymous discusses.

What a mess I am. I am so ashamed. I am not crying, unusual for me. But I feel panicked. I cannot think straight. My daughter wants to play with me but I just react stressfully. I am trying to avoid the mirror. It is not an over reaction - my hairline looks absolutely shocking.

Is there really no hope for me. I am due my next dose of cream but just have no idea how to proceed now. I feel like I cannot go on much longer. It has been years upon years of daily hell.

I am truly shocked my hair receded so much over so little time on this high dose. I was picturing feeling better and it growing back.

The world wants me to finally give up I think.
May 09, 2017
 Progesterone advice
by: Nicole

I have asked for advice from another progesterone expert.

I will wait to see what they say then check it's okay to post the advice here.
May 10, 2017
 😢
by: Anonymous

Omg it's like I'm writing your last post myself, I don't know what to do anymore either

I'm in the exact boat as far as hair as you are.

In only 2 short years, and for me when I quit smoking last year, is when I lost the most hair.

I have given up yet don't want to. I hate the wind and mirrors, I hate how I look, my hairline is a wreck.
May 10, 2017
 😢
by: Anonymous

For me I'm on a lower dose...I'm stopping the cream.

I can't stand it anymore the hair loss and receding hairline and the anger.

I'm so bitter and depressed and just want the big sleep too.

I wished I never began this journey it's become both obsessive and damaging.
May 11, 2017
 It worked for me
by: Alyce

Well all I can say is that progesterone worked for me, it helped my hair loss, but I also found out that I had a thyroid problem.

Once that was under control and the continued use of progesterone, my hair is back.

I will never stop using it.

Sorry to hear that you are having problems.
May 11, 2017
 Ho
by: Anonymous

Hi anonymous I'm on my partners phone. I can no longer message from my phone or iPad I don't know why - now I've been locked out of form disabled on every single progesterone page, do hope this works.

I wrote a long message, no time to write it again but I've had some small successes and changed things up a lot plus trying new things, dropped the others (ashwagabda!!!) and I have hope.

I feel much better today too. Do you want to message privately if I can't message here anymore? Maybe they will be kind enough to swap our email addresses? I don't know what I'd do without support here.
May 11, 2017
 Hi again
by: Anonymous

Well it looks like just me then as this is partners 4g. I will try it again tomorrow in case it is a site issue and resolves itself so I can give more detail. Haven't done anything different on my phone/ipad and wifi is fine. Really hope they can find a way for us to be in touch (if you want to) so I can share some positive news and give you new hope.

I will always post here (if my phone lets me again) I'm not very technical unfortunately.

I think iodine is helping now I've changed dose and using it with other stuff both internal and topically. Noticing lots of other stuff, don't want to write it all out again in case it's all for nothing again!.

Keeping hope. Stay in touch.
May 11, 2017
 On 4g still
by: Anonymous

Whilst I can I want to quickly say I dropped ashwaganda - I read it can increase testosterone in one study and men noticed increased facial hair and other things. That was enough for me - will not risk using it.

Changed iodine dose also added it to silver I make and use topically.
Maybe help with DHT. Noticed skin changes almost immediately. Also using it with a cv to aid detoxing plus the supps they usually recommend with it has made me feel better than just using a drop on skin/in my tea.

Upped the salt too. Noticed inner eyebrows filling in and eyelashes less sparse/longer plus pubic hair growing in, had bald patches before.

Changed other things too not sure this will post don't want to waste time.

MPB another story. Can't access any pages to comment at all now using wifi if it changes I will be more detailed, hopefully 4g continues to get posted.
May 11, 2017
 Email
by: Anonymous

P.s If anyone wishes to email now or in the future I am willing to share and talk, I think you just need to ask first, there's a way to do it I'm sure,
May 11, 2017
 Happier sleep
by: Anonymous

Oh and I I also change dosages to every 1-2 hours with a double booster before bed and in the night and this morning woke up feeling happy.

I slept great and in my sleep I felt really happy - I usually feel very depressed and negative even in my dreams. This is a huge change.

Mood dipped and I have my suspicions about my vit D3 which I'm changing - there's soy in it! I then felt good, then understandably been stressed since not able to message via wifi as I don't have 4g myself but took some salt and that helped.

Underestimated the sea salt for stress! Overall a better day!

Not saying my hair at hairline suddenly resprouting but change in mood very significant. Coping much better. Only my partner has 4g so won't be as quick to update as he works a lot.

Trying red light therapy next and keeping hopes up x
May 11, 2017
 hair loss
by: Anonymous

You are trying to find the perfect answer and there is none.

The more you have fear the fear will drive the hair loss. I am sorry you feel this way. Perhaps the best is for you to slowly stop the cream, If you are equating the cream with the loss. Your mind set is telling you this and your body is responding. I

am so sorry I have nothing more to add. I wish you hope, because hope is eternal.

If you weren't wanting to survive and go on, you would not be coming back to this site or any other. Balance takes time. Balance, however, must first begin with your inner self.

"Believing is seeing, not the other way around".
May 12, 2017
 Vitamin D3
by: Anonymous

Has yours got soy in it?

I wonder if even small doses of soy can be disruptive if sensitive.

Sometimes I feel a bit mental after a large dose of D3. I know it's essential stuff though!

Still looking into it right now.
May 12, 2017
 Hair loss
by: Anonymous

You say Nicole that you want to find another progesterone expert. If you can find anyone equal to Wray Whyte's 20 year devotion to the research of this hormone, I wish you luck.

I repeat Nicole, and this will be the last time I say this because I have nothing more to offer, until you go about all this with a greater sense of calm and peace, no supplement, hormone, expert, etc. will help sufficiently enough, because fear is governing you and making you doubt everything, unless it gives you instant success.

You say your hands froze when you attempted tapping. It wasn't your hands that froze, it was your mind. All the more reason you need to try techniques to shift this, be it tapping or other therapies.

These issues take time to heal. It took a long while for the body to turn into an imbalance and it will take time to unwind and sort itself out.

When you talk of taking your life, think of your child. You really put hair over your child? Hair is a reason to take your life? This is not the truth. It is that part of you that grabs your attention away from reality. Think twice. Your hair can grow again. You are doing good things.

I question though the amount of progesterone you are taking: 1200mg? But that is up to you. Remember that when you start large amounts and later decide to reduce, you must do so carefully, as described by Wray and Joy Lewis.

I wish you all the best Nicole, and everyone else who is at a state over their issues and contemplating taking their lives.

Don't believe the falsehoods of the soul.
May 12, 2017
 That was me above
by: Nicole

Realised in my haste on partners phone I never changed the name so it came up as anonymous, sorry about that.

I had a slight psychotic episode today which I think was from iodine detoxing. It was terrifying. I had increased too fast I think, not accounting the topical amount I was using either. I was suddenly a panic, a wreck. Could not think or move my body normally - felt erratic. Very dark thoughts. Did a few tricks and it passed in an hour thank goodness, but during that hour I was an absolute state.

I've experienced similar to this before when having serious hormonal fluctuations, it's scary. How I can go from calm and content to that in so little time is terrifying. It's a complete loss of control, it goes deeper than the mind, it is biological and needs a bigger hand to rectify it,

I basically sobbed in my partners lap at the end of it. I said it's not really my hair loss or the other physical things - yes they are upsetting and psychologically damaging - but it's my emotional reaction to them. That's my real problem. And to everything in life, just my complete sudden inability to cope with any form of stress.

My sudden spiral into sudden depression and dark thoughts over things that I was dealing with earlier. I don't think it's bipolar as I never experience any highs or utter happiness (except one time yesterday morning ha) Something just switches in my brain and it's like being taken over. And in those times I GENUINELY believe all is hopeless and want to sleep. It can last days (during menstruation) or just an hour (like today during the detox episode). It's awful living like this.

I think Accutane has a lot to answer for because despite some estrogen dominance I never reacted like this on a near daily basis, never wanted to quit life even during the hard times. Something changed in me and I just want to figure it out because living like this every single day is both terrifying and exhausting.

I'm wondering if I have serious mercury or copper issues after today, but even so my reaction on such a small amount of iodine and a bit of detoxing was wild!!!

Why am I so sensitive to everything. :-(
May 12, 2017
 Alyce
by: Nicole

Alyce this is not going to be the first time you have been pulled up for your attitude. Whenever someone is having a difficult time here with the therapy you're quick to say 'well! It worked fine for me! I have no problems! Simple!' Then you talk about how your hair is fine now (that's great) without even any further details (or links to where you provided in depth details.) Just, I'm fine (ie stop giving progesterone a bad name) type response.

It's so awful for everyone struggling. Nobody is saying progesterone is crap and it's all a myth. But people do struggle for reasons sometimes unknown (yes even to you) and they come here for support, like me and anonymous. Now if you can't say anything helpful or nice just say nothing at all is probably best. Not another short written 'well I'm having no problems it worked for me you just need to do this!' typical answers that we see regularly on here.

So please, can you write a little more considerately or just don't comment if not,
May 13, 2017
 One last thing
by: Nicole

Also guys when I mentioned seeking advice from an 'expert' I was really just using the term to denote a 'professional' as it were, so people might know it's not just Dave at the end of the road I'm getting advice from. Believe me, I KNOW there isn't another expert out there, none that I can find anyway, especially one that could match Wray and Dalton's intelligence and dedicated passion when it came to researching endlessly and trying to find explanations for women's (and men's) issues.

It's important to note that Wray herself did not experience hair loss. Had she begun the progesterone therapy years ago and continuously lost inches of hairline I feel absolutely certain she would have researched this to pieces to find out exactly why it does this in some people (I mean the exact mechanisms at play and not just the simplistic general hair loss theory of estrogen and testosterone conversion.) Had she felt better on high doses but continued to recede I feel certain this would have spurred her on to discover more.

As there is nobody to match Wray or Dr Katherine Dalton's abilities in this area (and passion for finding solutions for women) I feel we are a long time coming for a thorough explanation and any real help.

Hopefully there are young students out there right now dedicating their studies to the field of hormones and one day they will become the new advocate and help fill in the blanks for our daughters.
May 14, 2017
 😊 Stress
by: TM

I do believe stress plays a major role.

I did my days in progesterone cream and now my cycle began. It's not for everyone, maybe it converted wrong for some including me?

Bottom line though is I am not stressing anymore over my hair, and stopping progesterone cream for the month, my hair loss has not been so bad the past few days. If it stabilizes and grows I will be happy. The short hair growing longer would be nice :) but I can't let it continue to rule me.

Stress brought a lot of my issues on 3 years ago, no more am I going to let it rule me, I can't.

Stress controls thyroid cortisol and a team of other imbalances that, believe me, causes a mess and takes forever to correct, but I do believe like others here... stress makes it a thousand times worse.

All those things I mentioned, stress interferes with and causes hair loss and receding.

Lesson learned I hope not too late for me.
My god bless us both with getting things under control again. ❤️
May 14, 2017
 😊 Stress and hair loss
by: TM

For 3 years stress and hair loss stole my life.

Depression, wishing to not wake up, even just a week ago I felt this way, but I can't let it anymore.

It took anyway everything in that time, every joy and happiness. I refused to enjoy for fear of going bald like a man, not having my long red hair and envying every women I met, staring, looking for hair loss in them so I didn't feel alone (misery like company I guess) angry with women with full hair.

I can't continue anymore that way, stress is horrible
May 14, 2017
 😊
by: TM

Eyebrows growing in and hair growing back is good!

Keep that routine!!

Thyroid at play for sure, look to the positive changes and feed off them!!!!
May 15, 2017
 Hairloss
by: Anonymous

Nicole I have looked all over for someone like me as far as anxiety and hair loss the way you are describing. You sound just like me :( is it male patterned? Temples too? And yes I have the kinky type strange hairs and nape loss too hairline too.

Do you have the short hairs that fall as well? Breakage? wish we could exchange pics and things we've done and had tested maybe we could find a common cause and perhaps fix. Or at least halt.

I'm 48 my nightmare began in 2014 and stress played a major role. It's just not fair and has to be some reason why it is doing this all of a sudden.

I've tried many things too and seems only to make things worse
May 16, 2017
 TM (and general update)
by: Nicole

Hi TM, thank you for sharing though I feel so sorry you suffered this way also.

It really sounds like you have a new outlook and that is so great and inspiring for many of us! I too have lost days just unable to enjoy anything because fears have controlled my mind, and looking around for women like me, that I can relate to! I used to do this in my youth too when I had acne also. It destroyed my body image and I feel I developed BDD after having acne and now I respond to every flaw so negatively. (Only difference is these flaws do exist and are clearly perceived by everyone around me, but my reaction to them is wild and just out of control imo.)

I will say that my ability to cope and mood has risen a bit though this is not just because of using my new thinking techniques (more on that later.) I really feel like the increase in my tyrosine has benefited me hugely. Despite my underlying anxieties I have felt the sudden urge to dance when a song comes on the radio. It's weird. I have the same worries but these little blips of feeling 'young' inside and wanting to move around and be active with my little girl just come over me. They are brief but still, it's such an improvement for me.

Anyway I hope you continue okay after stopping. After my 'episode' last Friday I lowered the cream. I wasn't sure if it was iodine detox or too much hormone, or both, but my reaction was insane. I feel very sensitive to the androgens they seem to trigger suicidal emotions that cannot be dealt with by mind alone. This is why I am so fond of the supplements, it's a case of mind and body and getting them to work as a team. You can't solve anything with just one or the other though. It has to be both. When things are out of control for me biologically it blocks my mind on a chemical level. When I get my body chemistry more under control I am able to utilise the mind again then use both to build myself back up again. The supplements have been CRUCIAL for me in helping this. Bless Wray for this wealth of information. However I'm pretty sure if someone gave me testosterone or pure estrogen pellets I would still be running for the cliffs and tapping all the way down! I am so sensitive!

Anyway TM I wish you such luck and truly hope you find peace, it sure sounds like you deserve it! Maybe now and then you could give an update in future on how you are faring, with or without the cream.

Good luck and do enjoy any part of life you can 😊
May 16, 2017
 Hi anonymous! Part 1
by: Nicole

Hey! Yes the rest of my hair breaks so easy and in the bedroom light a couple years ago I remember my hair looked like a million broken hairs sticking up ALL over instead of just a sleek line of hair (some hair breakages in the light are 'normal' of course but this was extreme) - this has improved slightly since I began pouring nutrients in my body.

To put it into perspective when I was a teenager/early twenties I had zero hair problems, it was long, thick, sleek with no breakages or loss. I even did local hair modelling (despite my acnefied face!) My acne was awful which lead me eventually to accutane. I truly think this caused some severe hormonal issues, I had estrogen dominance before taking it but afterward I had serious issues!!

I got endometriosis and tons of cysts and so many pain episodes, this is reported a lot after accutane in females. Skin so dry it began to wrinkle and age prematurely, from 26, significant loss of collagen and elastin and prominent veins bursting out all over my body. Plus the blood pooling in hands and feet.

My hair went dry and wouldn't dye as well but 2 years later is when hell really broke loose. It turned orangey underneath then curled up at the ends then hairs all over the scalp randomly went kinky either at the end or from the root. Those ones are extremely dry and coarse and wiry! The rest is very dry.

I was depressed and suicidal and did not live healthily. (I relied on drugs for severe pain issues which only made my health and hair worse). I had very very slight temple receding and slight neck receding, barely noticeable, during pregnancy which then stopped.

My pregnancy was bad everything just as dry especially my eyes, though I didn't have vaginal dryness. For me the sudden dramatic receding was from the progesterone cream which I feel is not converting properly or continuously stimulating the wrong things.

I'm just trying to figure out why as everything Wray says makes it seem like you just need more Cream to dominate. I believe in progesterone but for some of us it's having this awful effect on hair and I am desperate to figure out why as without progesterone there is no hope for the estrogen dominance symptoms at all and life will just continuously get worse with age!
May 16, 2017
 Hey anonymous - Part 2
by: Nicole

I'm just listing all that extra info to demonstrate how really screwed up my body became overnight and how badly my hormones were affected from the accutane. I was stressed during all this time too, working in a very fast paced, professional, demanding role. This clearly did not help things and lead me to a nervous breakdown that continued for years.

Currently I'm putting all my effort into healing my body though I'm trying to keep expectations realistic. I just feel I can't give up looking for answers.

Unfortunately as I lowered the cream I started another period (though I did feel better for lowering and no longer feel psycho) so I have to wait another 3 weeks to do blood tests which I believe includes full thyroid panel minus the antibodies as well as hormones estradiol, progesterone, testosterone (couldn't do free or dhea or dht) prolactin, shbg and another ferritin. I may ask for another vit d see if they are willing. I really feel my level is good now after continuous supplementation.

My hair is dry, some days it just disgusts me, no products help at all. Other days it's not so bad which I feel hopefully means something good but that can be improved upon. There's probably less kinky hairs than 4/5 years ago but that's because they fell out. For example at the nape of my neck I used to see tons and tons of them I remember cutting them off a lot. They are all gone now, because all that hair is gone! But the straighter hair fell out too. It's the receding that scares me the most now, it's embarrassing and I hate how people stare after a windy day. I wish I had worked harder on my nutrients and thyroid before starting the cream 2 years ago tbh. Perhaps it is so much oxidative stress causing the trouble and inflammation that needs sorting.

There has to be SOME answers, some way to help. I get some improvements from the progesterone, I'm having a hard time accepting that it will always cause receding hair. I want to know why. I want to know if I helped other areas would this allow the progesterone to work properly?

I have made a lot of changes recently and I just hope in time it helps particularly with my mental health and hair loss issues.
May 16, 2017
 Part 3 one last thing
by: Nicole

Oh, I'm also beginning to follow this ebook on growing hair, there's some good ideas in it though whether it's enough for me I don't know.

I can't afford the dht blocking stuff right now though, the book alone was a fortune. Recent dietary and supplement regime seems to have helped hair grow on my pubic region and legs however I feel this receding is in a different ball park and it will take more than just fixing a thyroid alone as it is a hormonally driven issue. It may improve the quality of remaining hair however, I know thyroid affects that.

It's all one big puzzle and we just need to find the missing pieces. I'm not looking to go back in time but I do want to look more age appropriate with normal hair and also regain the hair I lost on progesterone. The kinks drive me nuts, I sometimes pull them out. I did read some PCOS sufferers with the same thing, some just a few kinks in certain areas but one saying it was like this all over. I don't have PCOS, I do have cysts and chocolate cysts, but no other symptoms and was never diagnosed with it. Was only diagnosed with endo through laparoscopy.

The PCOS girls also get receding hairlines and temples, some reported this began growing back after high levels of vit D (they were clinically deficient) but I've dosed vit D and nothing has grown. My last level was about 138nmol a year ago and I've had 10,000 iu every day since then. I did recently increase it just in case but felt a bit sick and no appetite so I stopped.

Even my 83 year old grandma has the same hairline as when she was young! No receding at all however it has become sparse in recent years, but she is 83. She also has lovely skin too, wrinkles only showed up in her seventies but she still has smooth soft skin in the places between with zero pores! She never had acne nor mental health issues either, just a calm and kind nature. It's incredible, I've always wondered what her hormonal panel looks like! I love her incredibly and wish I had inherited all this from this lovely woman 😄

Well that's all. If you want to chat privately about trying things or any small improvements I'm happy to. It gets hard typing long messages on here and counting words/editing so that's it from me lol.

If I do stop the receding and grow any hair back on this method i'll be the happiest person in England. Sometimes I feel like the tiny microscopic hairs around my hairline are getting a little taller. But probably just imagination.
May 17, 2017
 Things not great
by: Nicole

Can't see yesterday's comments yet but suffice to say I woke up this morning and just so sick of the receding hair now and today I feel like I wish I hadn't ever started the progesterone and had just tried to naturally heal myself first.

In bed I was thinking how I put some castor oil around my hairline for a fortnight which probably explains why the microscopic hairs are microscopically taller. It doesn't stop the receding though.

Today a new patch of hair around the hairline has broken off halfway which means it is next to slowly break off then shrink then disappear completely.

I'm pretty terrified and at this rate I absolutely feel like i'll be in a wig by the end if the year now, I'm trying to come to terms with that.

There is just no support or dosage guidance when you experience hair loss from progesterone. I have read tons of help and dosage suggestions for other issues like bleeding or hot flashes or cysts - more simple things to deal with - but nobody wants to touch you when you start to go bald from the cream. The only suggestions I've come across are either you're using too low an amount (usually for those under 100mg however!) it's not progesterone it's testosterone (but it IS the progesterone cream indirectly of course!) or it's too much vitamin A and please see our hair loss page. Even though every woman has directly stated the progesterone cream initiated the receding hairline. This should give some clue that it's hormonally driven.

I have had pretty much ALL the worst symptoms you can get from low progesterone, and I feel confident saying that when using progesterone cream and experiencing difficulties, the hardest to cope with and most psychologically damaging and stressful is the hair loss!!!! Yet this receives the least help. Because nobody knows how to help and of course people don't want to suggest dosages the way they do hot flashes and be involved in causing further hair loss. Understandably so! Nobody knows.

I therefore feel proper warning should be given on the front page, on its own page or at the very top of the progesterone hair loss page, in clear and much detail not just a little side note tucked away, but a proper warning that there is a possibility you may be very sensitive to the cream and your hair could recede significantly, and this is not guaranteed to be overcome by the cream so proceed with absolute caution should you experience this. You ideally should resolve all nutritional deficiencies and explore thyroid issues in much detail and correct diet before even commencing the cream. Never continue to push through 'estrogen dominance' over long periods of time should your hair continually fall out.

My life was not great before progesterone but I had a normal hairline. I'm at such a loss because I DO believe whole heartedly in progesterone and the amazing benefits, but for those of us with receding hair nobody actually knows if it's fully being used as progesterone or converting to test because our bodies are different. It could do this at any amount too, high or low, nobody truly knows? There's no warning, we just assume it's dominance that needs to be overcome. Then we lose hair and our lives are significantly impacted. It's very sad and there's little support out there.
May 17, 2017
 Oh
by: Nicole

Forgot to say I'm really thinking of stopping the cream now however this may not stop the receding. I'd venture a guess that I've seriously screwed up my hormones even more by pushing through with the progesterone for the past 2 years. I have no idea what state I will be in with zero progesterone and now increased estrogen and test!!! I'm scared. All I want is some help but there's nobody on the planet knowledgable enough (and I'd never afford their fees anyway probably.)

I was also thinking, I know Dr Dalton used 2400mg on post natal psychosis patients. But did any of them experience hair loss after that dose too? They may have felt better emotionally but down the road they may have looked bald as a coot front and back?! Which would demonstrate it doesn't always do just good things in every body? It could continually increase progesterone but still convert enough to testosterone to cause hair loss? (And horrific mood swings occasionally!) Nobody really knows this?

I'd rather keep my heavy periods and endometriosis and have hot flashes than be bald. Most young women would in today's society. Never underestimate the impact of hair loss, it's not just about vanity. We don't double take at bald guys in the street as we are used to it, it's just the norm. (Not that they don't have a difficult time also!!) But see a balding woman, everybody looks. EVERYbody looks. Trust me. It isn't accepted the same way. Women go straight for the wigs. I see balding men in commercials and on tv all the time. Some get very famous! Some are even deemed 'hot'. I never see a ton of women like this with significant hair loss. If they do it's scrutinised beyond heck. They certainly aren't viewed as attractive (not that I want to be involved in that whole shallow aspect anyway - I'm just saying.) It is psychologically affecting, just like acne (I should know.) So we shouldn't downplay hair loss.

I think more research needs to be done and more caution/help advised to any woman who suddenly sees their hair disappear during the use of the progesterone. Don't dismiss it and abandon them. My own gp suggests synthetic progesterone or just anti depressants. There is just little help. The best help is actual people's experiences, when people share their success stories it is more helpful than any doctor in the vicinity,

I wonder if I stopped the cream and employed all the new info I have if I could overcome this naturally and stop my hair receding. I'm just scared of how I will deal emotionally.

If anyone experienced hair loss on the cream then grew it back after stopping I (and others) would love to hear from you. Maybe even a thread dedicated to androgenic alone is where everyone can share their experiences good or bad, with or without progesterone, would be helpful and supportive.

I can see there are quite a few out there going through the same thing. I think we can only get help by helping each other.

May 17, 2017
 Anonymous of May 15
by: Nicole

I did come across something which grows people's hair back, plus improves skin dramatically. I wonder if I have too little of this.

I don't know if it helps mood though. Don't really want to get into it here. I don't know enough. Anyway can swap email and discuss.
May 19, 2017
 Anonymous
by: Anonymous

Hi anonymous of may 15th I posted a few updates a couple days ago but they have not appeared yet - perhaps the mods are taking a well earned break. :)

Anyway I desperately want to stay in contact with you, I have a lot of info and thought we could help each other. I think there are a few reasons we are struggling, particularly with hair loss.

I hope this gets posted and you see it, stay in touch.
May 24, 2017
 Anonymous of may 15th - email
by: Nicole

I don't know why my posts from a week ago are not being posted on this thread but I would very much like to be in touch with anonymous of may 15th who says they are experiencing same hair issues as me. I feel we could help each other.

I won't be posting on this thread any more but please can the moderators put us in touch? So we can share information? I would really appreciate this.

I really need some support. Anonymous of may 15th. I hope you read this. I've learned a few things. I do have some temple regrowth but nowhere else yet.

Let's exchange email and talk privately.

MODERATOR: Good day love, I am unable to provide you with the information you request as we do not receive emails or private info. I hope the correspondent you want to confer with checks back as posts are back on track so she should be notified.
May 28, 2017
 Temple regrowth!
by: Anonymous

Omg really!?!? What are you doing?!! I'd love to hear what's s helping. I think at least temples regrowth would be awesome for me. I, like you, need a break from this abnormal hair loss.

I'd love to talk more about it, maybe we can learn from each other, we sound so similar!! I'm sick of worrying, sick of not knowing which way to turn. I want normal again or at least semi normal.

Congrats on the temple regrowth. I'm so jealous yet happy for you!
May 28, 2017
 May 15th
by: Anonymous

I'm not sure how to keep in contact? I want to and hear how you've regrown your temple loss.

If you have any idea how we can exchange ideas and contact I'm all for it.
May 31, 2017
 Update and to anonymous
by: Nicole

Hey anonymous! It is very light blonde vellus hair at temples. This kind of hair is almost invisible. It felt bald before this yet now I feel it easily when rubbing with fingers and can just see it in certain lighting. There are microscopic, soft, invisible vellus hairs at forehead (extremely short) and nape of neck too. This is the invisible microscopic hair that appears when regrowth is activated, and if you are successful it goes from tiny invisible blonde hair and turns into terminal hair and will eventually become darker and grow thicker and longer. As long as you have these hairs there is always the chance for hair to grow back. Mine felt almost bald (slick) before so I didn't even think there was anything there. So even though this peach fuzz is not much to shout home about it means these hair follicles are alive and becoming reactivated.

I'm not getting excited though - I've recently read about people getting this peach fuzz but it never going beyond that. For others it can take a year from this phase to actually seeing proper hair. Others get good growth straight away. All you can do is wait and hope it grows. The body needs enough of all sorts of things to grow so covering all deficiencies is essential. I do hope I'm successful in full hair growing but I've had an unlucky life so it's hard to keep belief sometimes to be honest. I'm just trying to keep positive and keep putting good things in my body to hopefully assist this growth. It has coincided with my topical solution iodine and following the ebook, so quite a lot of things together in all, so I don't know what instigated it - everything I would say, as it all works together! I don't think simply stopping the cream did it. I lost a little bit of hair in pregnancy which never grew back at all after, it just stayed the same. It's possible my hormones are still too out if whack for the hair to grow fully, only time will tell. At least I'm not over stimulating with bad hormones now (though I do still have them) although the benefit from the small amount of progesterone I was converting correctly has gone. I have little appetite from anxiety so having to force nutrients in me every couple hours. It's just too important to miss.

It seems we can't exchange details via here so I'm going to find another forum where we can also use a private messenger so that we can exchange info. Once I have found and joined I will come back here and let you know the place so we can meet on there :) I definitely wouldn't give up hope on your hair yet anonymous.



MODERATOR: Hello, you could provide each other with your email address in your mesage thread perhaps? I do not have access to your email addresses but if you want to get in touch on a more personal note then that could be an option.
May 31, 2017
 Withdrawal update
by: Nicole

For those interested on progesterone withdrawal (I've seen people enquiring on here) for me it has not been a good experience. I grew sick of the irrational outbursts and hair receding every day so I quit cold turkey. I'm no longer a snappy irritable intermittently raging psycho however I am experience very serious anxiety.

Every morning I wake very early and feel shaky and not right. I then have a 4-6 hour anxiety attack. I haven't physically been able to get up and ready and leave the house in 12 days. If I try I am a quivering mess in full blown panic mode. No food or sea salt or supplements have made a difference, they just help me feel a tad calmer perhaps.

The mornings are the absolute worst and I can barely get through them some days. Then the anxiety lessens but I am still left with the severe depression (this is so bad on a morning I often wonder the point of going on if life is always like this etc) plus crying a LOT every single day. Just thinking about anything bad happening to my loved ones and I cry uncontrollably. Or anything awful on the news. I have cried for almost 2 weeks straight, more than ever before. I have begun to dread waking up because the mornings are absolute hell. I feel so ashamed - most normal people get up and get on with their day even depressed (like I used to) but now I am physically incapable of doing anything at all, until at least 11am.

I often wonder what was worse - the irrational outbursts on the cream or this every single morning. The dim made me very depressed and crying on a morning but not anxiety like this. I just hope it balances out and this is not forever. I have nobody to help me with my daughter and have no idea how I will cope once she starts school in a couple of years. I just can't imagine having to live this way forever.

She has watched so much Tv this week just so I can keep my head screwed on and stay calm. This is no existence for either of us. I am so worried for the future, there is just no help out there. I just hope this is the sudden change in hormones that is making me feel and talk this way. I even still believe when I wake up I will be even balder despite some fuzzy growth. I just keep believing bad things are going to happen to me! That's not a good way to think.

I'm working so hard on my nutrition. I am never tempted by bad food anymore despite these raging hormones so that's changed. My cravings were crazy before. I am about to try Dr Dalton's advice on eating as I know some of her patients were helped by that alone. I am so desperate to be well there is little I wouldn't do. My temples and cheeks are abnormally hollow for someone my age and I believe it to be stress. I think the progesterone was igniting a constant amount of stress but because I had good times inbetween I wasn't recognising the cream to be the cause - I just thought I needed more. 😰

Also the fatigue was incredible the first week I could barely move, but has begun improving slightly, still very fatigued though. I have some recurring pain issues too, joints and back. I can't do as much before my knees hurt again. That really sucks. I really wish progesterone had worked properly for me. I've been a walking disaster since my twenties and it's hard to not feel worthless with so many problems.

My family deserve more than this. I'm just holding on to hope.
May 31, 2017
 Anonymous - join here.
by: Nicole

Hey anonymous. I joined soulcysters.net. I was thinking of joining there already as I identify with a lot of pcos symptoms and I've learned a few things from that forum. They seem like a lovely bunch.

I've read a few hair growth stories there too, plus some old users reporting the kinky hair effect. I can't figure out if it's androgen related, thyroid related, or possibly even both as everything affects everything else. Register and find me on there - my username is Silverheart, they do pm's. :)
May 31, 2017
 Withdrawal
by: Anonymous

Your symptoms are screaming out THYROID! Blood testing is NOT the best form because most tests come back NORMAL when they are NOT.

Basal temperature testing first thing in the morning is known to be the best way to test. Keep digital thermometer by the bed and without getting out of bed, place the digital under the arm for 10 minutes BEFORE turning it on. If your temperature is between 97.8 - 98.2 you are within a normal range. Below that, most likely low thyroid.

ThyroGold is a non prescription desiccated thyroid supplement. That and IODINE!!! Iodine does NOT cause your hair to go orange. You weren't taking near enough!!

Unless you at least try do these very simple, non invasive, at home tests, you will never know and the problems will just go on and on.
Your withdrawal from progesterone? What did it do for you really?? One should NEVER stop cold turkey!! Why come to this website Nicole if you don't heed Wray's advice? INOSITOL will stop hair shedding and it is extremely calming. Take at night, at least 2 x 1/2tsp.

Constantly saying to yourself that everything is horrible and against you, will create the problem itself! Make no mistake about that.

Test that thyroid of yours as indicated. If you think it's okay, I wish you the very best. I hope you find peace instead of letting fear rule your life. Trust powers beyond yourself a bit more. Try to "let go" of this problem and maybe, just maybe, your inner wisdom will have a chance to help you listen better and guide you. "Letting go" does NOT mean you just give up or stop caring, It means you STOP the STRUGGLE and the constant "I need to find the answer!!"!

Your body knows what to do. Give it a chance. Fear will do nothing but create more fear.

I wish you the best going forward.
May 31, 2017
 May 15
by: Anonymous

Once I quit the progesterone cream the rage disappeared slowly. I tried it several times over the past 3 years and it was the beginning of the hair issues for me.

Then went on the thyroid med NDT WP Thyroid last June and it made things horribly worse :( severe thinning. I quit it in Januay this year and only pray it returns a bit (my hair). I too have the blond hairs at the temple and some do get dark but then fall anyway.

Chronic stress I believe made it all worse. My too and front are shameful and I know your feelings on pushing through a day. It's not like everyone else it's worrying and wondering what tomorrow brings for hair. I've tried it all, from iodine to biotin, Zinc made it worse. Acne oily skin, I never had much of either. I believe my stress and desperation in trying to save my hair caused me to try so many things, that indeed does shock and alter the body chemistry which causes imbalances, but it's hard not doing anything, thinking that's making things worse too. It's just so thin now I wish I never tried anything!!!!!

Now I use NAC, my inositol, vitamin c , probiotic and evening primrose oil. I've tried shampoos, emu oi,l castor oil .... the list goes on, nothing has helped so now I'm trying to unstress and hope that helps, and allow my body to re-adjust to what it was before this mess started.

I've prayed every day and curse internet advice and my stupidity for listening. It's gonna take a while to let my body re-adjust to not having all those constant changes but I'm hoping for, like you, something positive.

I wished it worked for me too, some of us just convert differently. 😢
May 31, 2017
 May 15
by: Anonymous

RedRoseSeeker. I joined
Jun 01, 2017
 Thanks
by: Nicole

Hi, thank you kindly for your advice anonymous.

I should just mention that I never thought iodine made my hair turn orange, I know that to be a hormonal thing. I realised that the progesterone was not only adding progesterone to my body but also converting the other hormones leading to more problems for me.

I heeded the advice of others on a different page to this; to stop the cream as it was giving me unwanted hormones also. I kept thinking I just needed more as this is common advice based on symptoms but really I needed to stop the cream as it wasn't working for me 100% right. I was going insane from the high amount, so I lowered then stopped cold turkey. I knew the risk but I didn't want to keep putting more bad hormones into my body as I was losing more centimetres of hair and basically feeling psychotic. I knew it would not be a fun ride - I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't be feeling good even after lowering the correct way. I concluded it would be better than get rid of the converted hormones fast.

I also increased my detox supps to help the excess estrogen. So now I'm just documenting my experience for anyone interested who may be experiencing a similar situation. We only learn from each other's experience on this website that's why I try to detail so much. I believe Wray knew a lot, but she unfortunately didn't know everything because unfortunately nobody out there does, especially with regard to our own individual circumstances and body chemistry. It's impossible to know. So we can only do our best with the info out there and listening to our bodies.

I was in a bad place anyway so I heeded the advice of others. I am documenting my thoughts including the negative ones as I feel someone out there will relate to that and it helps me to face up to the feelings I know are hindering me, so that I can admit to myself this is a bad way to think and I need to think better. I constantly have to control my thoughts and I do many things to help this. I don't enjoy feeling like I'm forcing this on myself and choosing to be this way.

If you have severe problems you know that positive thinking can be blocked chemically and it's incredibly difficult and sometimes impossible to fight an anxiety attack as the body takes over. I guess it's hard for some to understand, it's like the people who think some actually choose suicide and blame them. It's not always possible to change body chemistry with mind alone. Dr Dalton would not have expected her post natal psychosis patients to be able to think positive until their chemical imbalance was addressed, she would know why this was being blocked. This is an extreme example of course.

I'm trying to figure out what's happening to myself and what I need to give my body during the times it is completely blocking my ability to think and feel rationally. People with severe b12 deficiency have mental problems, you couldn't tell them to think positive and this will correct the situation, they need to correct the b12 issue also. Everything works together. So I'm just muddling my way through trying to do everything I can to get well. I do release a lot of emotion here and I apologise for that if it bothers you or anyone. I've always found it helpful when others document things though, the good and the bad, It helps me to learn.

I was certainly deficient in iodine and despite testing I believe my thyroid to be under par for sure. I won't be jumping into high doses of iodine as I've read enough literature on it now. The detox reaction affects my tinnitus, new pitches and increase in volume, so I have to be careful. I'm going to listen to my body and do it the best way for me personally. I'm on 800-1000mcg a day now. I've read many anecdotes of people causing harm with a lot of iodine including losing their eyebrows and becoming more hypo. I'm having some success with it and shall increase dose a little more, slowly, but will not be using insane high amounts as I feel strongly this will not be good for me personally. I know others do okay but we are all different. Just like with the progesterone. I have really enjoyed Dr Group's talks on iodine - I highly recommend people watch his stuff on YouTube. I am switching to his iodine pretty soon.

(Also I don't have hair shedding, this was temporary from the dim and stopped a week after I quit the dim. My hair loss is severe, receding front and back, as documented above. However I strongly recommend inositol anyway to everyone as it is an excellent supplement and not just for hair.)
Jun 01, 2017
 Not taking advice
by: Alyce

Hello Nicole

Again I am reading this post that you started and again I scratch my head. It appears that you have not taken advice by so many people who have posted on this post. I think that you are getting very confused as well as all the websites that you are searching are giving you some incorrect info.

As Anon said, why come onto this site and not follow good sound advice? Good luck.
Jun 01, 2017
 May 15
by: Anonymous

Your hair shedding stopped? But you're still receding?

Nicole everything you said is true, a person needs to listen to their bodies. I so wanted the progesterone cream to work for me too, unfortunately it caused more issues then before. High doses of anything isn't good, your body doesn't naturally produce high doses so why should we do it synthetically? We shouldn't, for some yes it may work but not for all.

I for one like the documentation, it helps me in knowing I'm not alone and there is someone out there with the same issues I have, and yes hopefully we can learn from one another and correct some of the damage done.

Insotiol isn't known for growing hair, I've been on it, and biotin niether will help if it's not the cause and your not low in it. Inositol will help if you are insulin resistant, it has brought my free t levels down (however they weren't super high to begin with) but my dheas, it didn't do much in lowering them.

I too have low end ft3, thyroid meds only caused rt3 to go up for me, so that being said I m not taking anything that has bad crap worse anymore, I was better off on nothing, I at least had normal hair, now I don't know if it will ever get better.

If you've not experienced the nightmare then you HAVE NO idea what it does to a person! I know what your dealing with but sounds like you may be slowing on the right track.

I'd give anything for my hair to regrow, even a bit fill in, at least some, and stop breaking!!! Since quitting progesterone cream the loss isn't as bad at the moment. I pray so hard, however I am not as stressed over it as I was, so hoping that in time helps.
Jun 01, 2017
 A final comment
by: Anonymous

Nicole, first of all, unless you refer to the experts about Iodine, searching online at this and that idea, will get you more confused than is necessary.

Your thyroid needs to be addressed here. Period. Read Dr. David Brownstein's account, he is among, if not the, leading expert in the world.

The biggest MYTH he states in his books is that Iodine does NOT suppress the thyroid, that is absurd to think! Almost everyone is deficient. Don't be afraid of something that is crucial for every cell in the body.

Also, the ThyroGold is wonderful, It has helped me enormously. That and iodine (50mgs. I take) I would NOT be without. As Dr. Btownstein states, "it can take years for many to become iodine EFFICIENT".

That is all I have to say. I wish you all the best going forward.
I will not be contributing to this topic any further. I have nothing more to add. Sorry.
Jun 05, 2017
 May 15
by: Anonymous

It won't let me reply to your message :/
I'd like to hear more though as to what your doing exactly that's helped?
Aug 09, 2017
 DIM is an aromatase inhibitor
by: Traci

DIM is an aromatase inhibitor that can block the production of estrogen from testosterone. If you're low on estrogen, then DIM can cause side effects such as hair loss because your increasing free testosterone which has the ability to convert to DHT, which is the enemy of hair follicles.

Also, progesterone dominance though rare, has similar symptoms as estrogen dominance. If everyone is having wonderful results on DIM and you're not, then check you estrogen levels.
Aug 11, 2017
 Alyce
by: Nicole

Hi Alyce

I'm not sure what you mean. I have taken the advice of people both on this post and other pages I have posted on. Unfortunately there is no one correct way to do anything, there is no one right or wrong advice, even on this website. All of our bodies are different. High amounts were converting incorrectly for me. I'm scratching my head as to what you are referring to.

I have taken much advice from this website, I also have posts on 'does or can progesterone metabolise into estrogen', perhaps reading this page will help you understand.

I'm doing much better now with the help of doctors and medication (no hormones) my hair is in much better condition and I keep coming here in order to answer posts but also to glean information on my journey to find out what may or may not be correct for me *individually*. It is important to remember that we are all different and not everything is correct online, not even on this website, it's about finding the information that helps you and your individual body chemistry.

I hope this helps you understand better. Kind regards.
Aug 11, 2017
 Traci
by: Nicole

This is so interesting thank you so much for contributing Traci. This is another example of why we come here, whether using progesterone or not, because information like this is so helpful and gives good for thought.

In other news I am happy with my iodine dosage it has helped the quality of my hair, softer, shinier, less dry, less breakage, however large doses caused more shedding so I stuck with the recommended dosage by a Dr and I'm doing good on it and hope it continues.

Alyce there are further comments on the other page I mentioned which may help clarify things for you as to why I chose the advice I did. Everyone has different advice and not everyone can be 100% right unfortunately, it's about what is right for the individual.

I also thought I would also mention for others who stumble across this that the best nutritional diet for me has been based on Ray Peat's findings. I pick and choose what works for me. My favourite things being coconut oil and gelatin of course, but many other foods too.

Medication has literally been a life saver for me and I hope to work on myself nutritionally so that one day I can be free of medication and live happy naturally. For now I'm in a much better place and finally living again, though it takes much mindfulness and a strong will. I am able to summon this now that my depression and anxiety has lowered so much.

I have also taken up many hobbies which have enriched my life and I am enjoying motherhood once again. I have taken the right steps and heeded the correct advice. I hope others are able to find success on their journeys also.

Best wishes.
Nov 06, 2017
 DIM PLUS & HAIR SHEDDING
by: Anonymous

HI.. I had a M/C about 7 weeks ago. I started taking DIM PLUS because my acupuncturist stated I was estrogen dominant & could have been reason for unsound eggs and miscarriage.

Within 2 weeks of taking DIM PLUS I noticed significant shedding! It's so thin now! My hair was so full and thick before and after pregnancy. Pretty bummed out because I did have a hair shedding episode 4 years ago due to a bad hair dresser. I lost almost my entire crown. It took me 2 years to grow it back.

I won't try DIM again........
Sep 17, 2020
 Hair Loss
by: Amie

Im 60, I started the Biotech Hormonal Therapy, (hormones under the skin) Within 6 months clumps of my hair was falling off! my thick long hair has dribbled down to a few strands!

My Dr. told me to start taking Saw Palmetto so I did and I am taking Biotin twice a day. Have only noticed that it is not coming out in clumps but still shedding! Dr. also told me it was the mix of testosterone pellets and estrogen pellets under my skin. I stopped the treatment due to hair loss plus after 2nd dose of pellets I was not seeing a difference in my mood swings and my inability to sleep thru the night!

The Dr. did put me on some natural thyroid pills which I will continue. But I am going to look into alternative methods to control my mood swings, lack of sleep and hair loss. I will however take the advice of taking inositol to see if that helps my hair regrowth.

This hormonal imbalance is for the birds!! Originally the hormonal imbalance caused kidney problems, them irregular BM, night sweats, lack of appetite. Once on started the thyroid pills, and Biotech Hormonal Therapy it appeared to balance out after first treatment. Then after 2nd treatment, I noticed mood swings, lack of sleep and all my hair falling out. Besides it costs $300/ per treatment every 3 months and insurance will not cover the costs!!!

If there is anyone out there with great advice, please share!

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