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Estrogen levels - help

by Val

Hellohile e

Can you help me??? I'm 46. Since starting natural progesterone cream 2 months ago at 300mg, I've just had my bloods taken and my progesterone has not increased at all, but my estrogen has increased 10 fold and i have felt dreadful. My estrogen is at 2089 pmol/l. Two previous blood tests showed my estrogen around 200-300 pmol/l and I felt bad then.

Why has progesterone increased my estrogen so much. What do I do??? I've read that things can get worse before better but I never expected my estrogen to go so high. Is this a normal reaction???? Will it come back down with consistent use of the cream. I thought your receptors became more sensitive to estrogen when starting prog, I had no idea your blood levels actually increased.

Please help. Thanks

Comments for Estrogen levels - help

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Oct 03, 2022
 Estrogen levels - help
by: Joy

Hi Val

While each hormone test result is important, it is the ratio between progesterone:estrogen that really is important.  Did you have your progesterone level tested?  If so, you can compare it to the Hormone Testing page.  Ratio should be around 600:1.

Also take into account that progesterone will cause a disruption when first using it.  The body needs to adjust, this can take anything from 2-6 months, longer if symptoms are severe.
Oct 04, 2022
 High estrogen
by: Val

Thank you Joy.

Yes, I had my progesterone tested. My ratio has come down to 3:1 since supplementing at 300mg.

Previously my ratio was 36:1

The progesterone seems to have increased my estrigen rapidly. I know it takes time to settle - but my question is, does progesterone increase your estrogen to bring with?

It seems crazy that by supplementing with 300mg, I've actually made myself worse.
Oct 04, 2022
 High Estrogen
by: Joy

Hi Val

Something is not right here. Please send me your progesterone and estrogen test results.

There could be something that is causing your progesterone level to drop i.e. stress.
Oct 04, 2022
 Results
by: Val

Thank you Joy.

My progesterone is 5.5 nmol/l
My estrogen is 2089 pmol/l

My vitamin d is 96 nmol/l

Back in March my progesterone was 7 and my estrogen 221

All I've done differently is add in 300mg progesterone 3% cream. There is no stress here. I take magnesium and now taking calcium d glucarate.

Any thoughts much appreciated? Do you think this is a strong estrogenic reaction to the progesterone?

Much thanks for looking x
Oct 05, 2022
 Results
by: Joy

Hi Val

Your test results give me a progesterone:estrogen ratio of 3:1, it should be around 600:1 as you know and as stated on the Hormone Testing page. 300mg per day is a good amount to take so something is causing a drop.  Let's break this down. 

Straight away I can see that your Vitamin D3 level is low, it should be between 175-250nmol/l.  A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone. You are taking magnesium which is great, but what about the other co-factors?  These are vital. Vitamin D3 helps the body absorb calcium from the diet. Vitamin K2 directs the body to deposit the calcium in the places where it is needed, such as bones and teeth and NOT in organs, arteries, muscles and soft tissue where it can cause health issues. It is Magnesium's job to keep it where it belongs. Vitamin D3, Magnesium and Vitamin K2 are no brainers!  You also need zinc.  

Are you taking any estrogen supplements  i.e.  HRT or BCP (contraceptive pill)?  Often when doctors do not know how to help a person they tend to prescribe BCP thinking it's the 'fix all'.

You have ruled out stress by here is a list of things that could cause progesterone levels to drop:

lack of or drop in Vitamin D3 levels - this applies to you
high estrogen
high testosterone
high LH
high FSH sugars of any kind
large meals
alcohol
stress
insulin resistance
high level of phytoestrogens in the diet

Diet is so very important.  Wheat is particularly bad as is sugar, in fact all carbs should be avoided as much as possible.

You don't state how long you have been taking calcium d gulcarate, but please continue to take it.  

The use of progesterone should not be causing such a drop in your progesterone level.  Yes, it does disrupt things when first using it but things do settle down. Something is causing this and I can only suggest the above plus your D3 level needs to be addressed.

A question though.  How are you actually feeling?  If worse, then the only thing that I can suggest is that you increase to 400mg per day every day and see how you feel.  It is going to take a while to raise the level but you need to find out what, apart from a low D3 level is possibly causing the drop.

Please let me know how you get on.   Keep posting on this thread so that I have all the info together.

Take care.
Oct 05, 2022
 High estrogen
by: Val

Thank you so much Joy.

Yes. You are correct, I have actually seen a drop in progesterone. I has assumed this was because my test was blood serum rather than saliva. Although all tests were blood serum.

Irrespective of the drop in progesterone - I still don't understand why my estrogen has increased so much since starting the progesterone. Does progesterone cause this???

Yes, I take vitamin d plus k2. I also take magnesium. I will continue and may up my dose of vitamin d plus k2. Again, I was taking those prior to adding in progesterone cream.

My diet is good. Also, nothing has changed there. It really does feel like the progesterone cream has caused my estrogen to surge. I assumed this was the receptor wake up. But I'm gauging from your response, this might not be the case???

How do I feel??? I feel dire. I feel like I'm being poisoned from the high estrogen. I have only been taking the calcium d glucarate this week but unfortunately it upsets my stomach and causes gastritis. I take it after food. I will try and keep going.

Im scared my estrogen will go even higher if I increase to 400mg

Thanks for helping. X
Oct 06, 2022
 High Estrogen
by: Joy

Hi Val

I am pleased that no HRT or BCP is involved, they all have a potential to cause harm.

I am at a loss to be honest.  It is most odd that your level drops.  I can only suggest that your address the list given to you.  Or you can either continue on 300mg or increase to 400mg and see how you feel.  I have mentioned many times on this website that one needs to experiment.   It saddens me to hear that you are feeling dreadful but I have never come across a situation like yours.

CdG would be detoxing you but if you really can't tolerate it try DIM although it is less effective.  It might just suit you.   Did you start on a low amount of CdG?   Some need to do this and gradually increase.  

One last thing. What progesterone cream of you using? If not Natpro, please consider using it. It could be the cream that you are using.

Please keep me posted on whatever you decide to do.  

Good luck.
Oct 06, 2022
 Estrogen problem
by: Val

Thank you Joy.

Gosh. Its awful to be the person beyond help. OK. So I've had a really good think and look back over my symptom diary. Here's how it has gone:

200mg prog - extreme mood swings.
300mg prog - mood lifted immensely. Now very stable. Been through a lot of my usual stimulation effects at dose increase, including nausea. But that has all calmed.

So the 300mg is working wonders on my mood. But it would appear it is the increased prog that has increased my estrogen.

When I look, I find flow charts that show progesterone can convert to estrogen. It feels like this has happened??? What would cause my progesterone supplemevtation to convert to estrogen?? It would also explain why my prog level is not increasing.

I feel like I need to reduce my prog to reduce my estrogen. But I'm scared the low mood will return.

I'll try and stick with the CDG. I've started low at 250mg. Lots of headaches. But also stomach boosting.

really appreciate your help.
Oct 07, 2022
 High Estrogen
by: Joy

Hi Val

It is awful feeling dreadful all the time.

Yes progesterone does eventually convert into estrogen. Progesterone can be converted into 17-hydroxyprogesterone which can be converted into androstenedione which is either converted into testosterone or the estrogens. All the hormones, neurotransmitters too, affect each other. For instance progesterone influences estrogen, testosterone, LH, FSH, prolactin, plus the neurotransmitters dopamine, serotonin and GABA. In fact dopamine acts via an 'empty' progesterone receptor. An excess of any of the above hormones will suppress progesterone. Wray explains in more detail see here. Her post is in 3 parts, an interesting read. This is why I gave you a list of things that could cause progesterone levels to drop further up on this thread. Have you tested testosterone, LH and FSH, insulin resistance levels perhaps?

I have given you my suggestion but as I always say, listen to your body, do what you think is best for you. Only you know what your body needs. As mentioned, experiment. I do believe that things will settle down soon provided the list given is addressed. You were feeling dreadful before you started progesterone therapy which is why you started to use it, you are still feeling dreadful. Something is off here, something is blocking things.

As mentioned CdG is detoxing you, you will get headaches, your estrogen level is high. Try rubbing some Natpro at the back of your neck or on any painful area, it is an excellent anti-inflammatory.

Your liver could also be battling to detox. Are you supporting your liver? Milk thistle and taurine are excellent for the liver. Gut issues are a big thing today, if the gut is not healthy it affects everything. Inflammation is a problem for all of us. Fermented foods is excellent for the gut and of course will help the liver. It is also the best probiotics available especially saurerkraut. I eat fermented food every day, the benefits are endless.

The only other thing that I can suggest is that you stop using progesterone and see how you feel on that. Then you can decide if progesterone is for you or not.
I wish that I could help you more.

Good luck.

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