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Coming off Wiley Protocol BHRT to something more managable

by Electra
(California)

Hello Wray, what a thrill to find your site. Even though I am in California it seems very hard to get good advise on BHRT.

I am at my wit's end with the Wiley Protocol! I am a 50 year old woman who has never missed a period and am probably perimenapausal. I have been taking the Wiley Protocol for 10 months for night sweats and face flushes. I also thought it might give me some "youth" back since my waist was getting thicker (per Suzanne Somers). I started with cream estrodial and progesterone, but I did not seem to be obsorbing the progesterone so I switched to bioidentical progesterone pills. Blood tests reflected that it worked. I have gained 30 pounds in less than a year and think that I may not need all that estrodial after reading your website. (If you are familiar with the Wiley protocol, I am on the "plus 3" dosage - two steps more estrodial than the starting dosage). Oh, I have all my parts, no children, and took birth control pills from about age 20-35.

I would like to get off of the Wiley and not sure how to do that. Cold turkey seems like a bad idea as I have spent 10 months getting my poor body adjusted to this. Wiley is expensive and high maintenance as doses change every day of the month according to cycle. How can I get off of this to something more managable - cheaper and not so complicated. Also, I no longer have health insurance so all those expensive blood tests are not an option any longer. Please help!

P. S. I would love to get pregnant if that were still a possibility and I haven't messed up my body too badly, but primarily I just want my health and figure back.

Comments for Coming off Wiley Protocol BHRT to something more managable

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Jan 26, 2011
 Coming off Wiley Protocol BHRT to something more managable
by: Wray

Hi Electra Bless you for the kind words! I've had others who've written in who've had difficulty with the protocol too. Firstly it forces every woman into a 28 day cycle, as does the BCP. Our normal cycles vary from 21 to 35 days. The following paper shows the variation in the length of the follicular phase, when oestrogen is produced, see here. You'll notice they can range from 7 days, to as long as 59 days, which is not normal. So oestrogen does not peak on day 12, except for those with a 28 day cycle. A thick waist is due to excess oestrogen, see here. Oestrogen, (particularly oestradiol the most potent oestrogen) also causes Insulin Resistance, which leads to weight gain. Whether it comes from excess endogenous oestrogen, HRT or Contraceptives. I don't believe any woman needs more oestrogen, or testosterone which is often given. In fact the peri-menopausal/menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, see here. Cold turkey is a bad idea, far gentler on the body to come off slowly. I don't know how much progesterone you are currently getting, but I recommend 100-200mg/day dependant on symptoms. Is it possible to adjust your amount to somewhere in this range? At the same time begin to reduce the oestrogen. We do have a page on Coming off HRT. Please be aware that increasing progesterone can cause Oestrogen Dominance. If it does occur, using more progesterone speeds up the transition phase. You'll have to play around with the amount, it's very safe. I have women using 400-600mg/day for severe symptoms. You might like to see our page on Peri-menopause. Anovulation increases in frequency as we approach menopause, but if you still have viable eggs left, there is still a chance of Pregnancy. We run regular Saliva Tests, which prove that the cream is absorbed exceptionally well. Take care Wray
Jul 04, 2014
 need to get off wiley...
by: Jillian

I am trying to come off the wiley prot. after being on it 4 years I am having horrible side effects. Migraines, bloat, weight gain, lethargy. any help would be great. only good thing was before I never slept. now I sleep better
Jan 20, 2016
 alternative to Wiley?
by: Anonymous

Has anyone had success with keeping a cyclical hormone treatment per keeping your period, other than Wiley's high doses?
Jan 26, 2017
 BHRT 13 years experience
by: Anonymous

My menopause began when I was around 50 (I'm now 67) and my doctor put me on synthetic HRT for my hot flashes etc. which gave me gallstones within six months and I had my gallbladder removed. I was very thin at the time and did not eat greasy food, but ER doctor informed me that gallstones were a side effect of synthetic HRT. I went off the synthetic HRT and the symptoms returned worse than before.

I happened upon the Wiley book (Sex, Lies & Menopause) in a bookstore and decided to try the Wiley Protocol. My gynecologist at Kaiser agreed to read it too. I got a lot of blood tests, and prescribed the BHRT creams which I got filled at an outside pharmacy that gave me the jars of estradiol and progesterone and the syringes which I filled myself to save money. For years it was working great. I got a period every month, though never the 5 day bleed the Wiley protocol says is essential. Usually I'd have two days and some spotting. I increased both the estrogen and progesterone doses to promote bigger longer bleeds, but almost never got there. Occasionally I had clots and my M.D. did a D&C to make sure there was not a problem.

I continued on for 13 years, sleeping great, feeling great, my skin young. But then I stopped getting any bleeding and my doctor recommended that I stop because of increased risk of estrogen related cancer. So I weaned off but I guess not gradually enough Feb 2016 and insomnia, sweats & chills came back with a vengeance. I read a Canadian study about 300 mg oral progesterone decreasing hot flashes and I started on it about 2 months ago. They have decreased about 50%, but still waking up several times a night, and I have terrible vaginal dryness and pain with intercourse. I miss sleeping and pain free sex. My friend uses an Estring and I think I may try this. Anyway, that's my story.
Apr 17, 2017
 Need NYC doctor
by: Anonymous

I need a NYC Whiley Protocol doctor.

My doctor stopped prescribing it and I had never felt better.

Can anyone help me?!!!
Jul 25, 2017
 Need NYC Doctor
by: Joy

Perhaps your doctor stopped prescribing it because of the controversy surrounding it. It would certainly not be a protocol that I would recommend either. It forces every woman into a 28 day cycle, as does the BCP. Our normal cycles vary from 21 to 35 days for a start. This is not natural. Wray explains it in more detail further up on this thread.

Wiley Protocol
Sep 26, 2017
 Wiley
by: Anonymous

I started the high dosages of Wiley protocol after I had been misdiagnosed with ovarian cancer , turned out to be stage 4 endometriosis, I was only 39 (felt and looked 25 before the surgey). My tubes and right ovary and half of my left ovary was rremoved, I went into ovarian failure, no hoones except bcps were prescribed, The estrogen only pill made me feel better. After the surgery I felt very very old, I aged quickly, this gave me anxiety and Deprrssion, it was a nightmare. I found a couple Wiley prescribers in the USA and flew to see them. Nothing worked as I had raging anxiety. I went off it all cold turkey and the endo came back, the partial ovary was Puting out hormone but any progesterone I had was converting to cortisol. There was no way I was going for survey again but inner that progesterone cream helped me get pregnant and that pregnancy is a time when endometriosis goes away so.....I Started applying 1000s of MGs of progestone cream dsiky. It woked! The 8 cm endometrioma went away within months and so did the anxiety. But the anxiety and aging came back. In nature progesterone is always accompanied by estogen. If you don't have estrogen you don't need very much progesrone,. It creates an imbalance in anothe direcitiion. Progesrone also reduced growth hormone, if doing growth hormone injections women need less during the first half of cycle and more during luteal,. Estrogen promotes growth, progesterone preserves and halts growth. Growing can be stopped if we want regeneration. My body naturally had a small period despite the progesterone so it just felt like my body was ready to cycle again and I am emotionally ready and have healed from trauma. I also gained a lot of weight with progesterone and I did not feel feminine. So far so good, with the high dose estrogen but only time will tell,.
Sep 26, 2017
 Coming off Wiley protocol BHRT to something more manageable
by: Anonymous

There is a time and place for every hormone. Estrogen isn't a villain and progesterone isn't a cure all. I've experienced the benefits of progesterone: helped me get pregnant because had lutel phase defect. I also cured 4th stage endometriosis by using 1000s of mgs per day. But we can't stay on progesterone alone for an really long term. I initially felt amazing because the progesterone activated my estrogen in my body. And then I just felt blah and gained a lot of weight. Where in nature is progesterone found alone? It isn't. It Always accompanies estrogen. Once the estrogen is beaten down, growth hormone takes a tumble, hence weight gain, loss of hair etc. Progesterone needs its partner in crime: estrogen. I've started back up on cycling with Wiley protocol.' Time will tell how well it will work.
Apr 12, 2018
 Irritability while on the topical progesterone in Wiley Protocol
by: Char

Anyone have extreme irritability during the progesterone phase of the Wiley Protocol? Tried many things to counter act it to no avail. Any suggestions out there?
Char

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