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Wonderful, informative site and testing times

Hi Wray,
Let me first thank you for this wonderful site! I know you are a lifesaver for so many women out there and I know for me, I have learned so much just reading through all the pages and peoples stories and your comments. I wish more doctors knew this stuff or cared to know. I read your story. So do you ever get any symptoms, specifically of depression and despair anymore? Is it when you hit your "sweet spot" with the ratio, you don't get any re-occurence of symptoms.

I want to test my hormones levels to see where they are at now and what my ratio is. Most kits say to test on day 21 but my cycles have been ranging from 23-24 days so testing on day 21 would be inaccurate for me. This might already be on your site, but I missed it. Do you know when I should test have a 23-24 day cycle? Also, what does having short cycles, with very little bleed time (maybe 1-2 days very light at that) indicative of? Also, how long does it take to get ratios where they need to be, assuming the ratios are way low. Is it a matter or time or a matter of how high the dose?

Comments for Wonderful, informative site and testing times

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Feb 18, 2013
 Wonderful, informative site and testing times
by: Wray

Hi there Bless you for the kind words about the site! The only symptom I get is 'wobbly' emotions if I inadvertently use too little. Or go through a stressful patch. I went through a very stressful time last year and managed to give myself oesophageal spasms, very painful. I covered my throat with progesterone several times a day and it went. Oestrogen causes smooth muscle to constrict, progesterone relaxes it. So if stressed I apply much more to bring the level up again, any Stress drops progesterone levels. In fact many things we are unaware of do......
lack of or drop in vitamin D.... are you taking it, or missed a dose, or spent lots of time indoors?
high oestrogen.... aromatase, which converts testosterone into oestrogen, is working over time, or SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) is low, this binds oestrogen making it inactive
high testosterone.... SHBG is low, this binds testosterone making it inactive. Sugars drop SHBG, they also drop progesterone levels
high LH.... the pituitary is working over time trying to make an egg develop, secrete testosterone and oestrogen, and then ovulate
high FSH....the pituitary is working over time trying to make an egg develop, secrete testosterone and oestrogen, and then ovulate
high stress...... this converts most of the available progesterone into cortisol
high adrenaline (comes from stress or excitement, and a drop in blood glucose)..... this stops progesterone entering the cells
sugars of any kind.... they drop progesterone, plus dropping blood glucose, plus dropping SHBG
large meals..... because of the increased metabolic clearance of progesterone
alcohol.... this reduces progesterone levels and increases the androgens, ie testosterone
insulin.... increase caused by eating large meals, sugars, or meals containing sugar or starchy carbs
high level of phytoestrogens in the diet.... ie grains and legumes, soy milk, tofu etc these all act as oestrogen
oestrogenic herbs.... often given to women to help with symptoms

Continued below
Feb 18, 2013
 Wonderful, informative site and testing times Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there I've only ever had one test done, and that was before I learnt about progesterone. My ratio was 5:1 and I was a basket case! Heaven knows what it is now, probably in the thousands! It's extraordinary how everyone, including doctors, think all women have a 28 day cycle. Day 21 is correct for those women who do, but there aren't that many. A normal cycle varies between 21 to 35 days, making 28 the average only. For instance my daughter has a 21 day cycle, so ovulates on day 7. So you are quite right, as you would ovulate on days 9 or 10. The test should always be done ±7 days after ovulation or before bleeding. So yours should be done on days 16 or 17. Short cycles and light bleeding are also normal, there's more info on our Menstruation page.
Both time and the amount of progesterone play a role in resolving symptoms. I've found on the whole low amounts merely make matters worse, so advocate 100-200mg/day, often more if symptoms are severe. Only the person using the progesterone will be able to tell if they're using enough. We do have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray
Feb 20, 2013
 Thank you Wray!
by: Anonymous

Thank you Wray for your very informative explanation! Do you know if there is a genetic link with progesterone deficiency? I am just wondering about my daughter and worried that she will have issues like I have when she starts menstrating. We eat organic meats, veggies and fruits and try to limit our exposure to as many of the known endrocrine disruptors but we live in a very toxic world these days with bad chemicals all everywhere if you aren't aware. I just find it so strange that some women suffer so horribly with symptoms while others have no issue at all with hormonal changes (periods, postpartum, menopause).
Also, one thing that caught my eye in the progesterone deficiency questionaire was harmful, violent thoughts. I have been suffering from these for years and they definitely intensified after childbirth. They cause me tremendous anxiety, guilt, and grief and my greatest wish to God is to lay them to rest. Every psych or doc I have gone to has reassured me that the fact that these thoughts are so distressing to me means that I do not want them to happen...there for a while I did think I was really going crazy. Over the years with the help of cognitive therapy, I have learned to let the thoughts go and not react to them. I have been told that I just have pure obsessional OCD without the compulsions. So, could this also be related to progesterone deficiency? And if so, how?
Feb 22, 2013
 Thank you Wray!
by: Wray

Hi there I've not heard of a genetic link, if there was one it would more likely be epigenetic in nature. I had depression during puberty, so put my daughter aged 14 1/2 on progesterone, as I didn't want her to get it. She's been on it ever since, and is now 31. You are right about all the toxic things in the environment. If you want to find out more this is an excellent site.....Our Stolen Future. It's interesting you picked those times of hormonal changes, add in puberty too. Dr Walsh believes it could be caused by excess copper, as this increases the risk of depression and psychotic behaviour, see here, scroll to copper. You could explore the whole site, the best I've come across in its field. Is it the chicken or the egg, as oestrogen raises copper levels, possibly copper raises oestrogen. Copper also opposes zinc, so too does oestrogen, whereas progesterone raises zinc. Copper pipes and swimming pools are obvious sources of copper, but it's also found in supplements, some cook ware, food etc. If you have those thoughts I suggest you get your copper and zinc levels tested, it could well be caused by that. A hair analysis, see Analytical Research Labs or Trace Elements, and serum tests are necessary. A lack of progesterone can also cause them too. Now we're back to the chicken and egg again! Dr Dalton wrote an excellent book called Depression after Childbirth. She makes the comment that post natal depression is a misnomer, as very often 'depression' is not experienced. And goes on to list a large number of symptoms which immediately classifies the person as psychotic, and they are put on meds. Things like rage, violence, hallucinations, voices in the head etc. Of course no one wants them to happen, but they do, and can end in infanticide, luckily very rare. She gave 2400mg/day to her patients with post natal psychosis, no drugs. I had PND, lasted 4 years before I eventually crawled out of it. Rage, extreme fatigue and muscle weakness were my major symptoms. I only met her when in the last stages of Peri-menopause.
Continued below
Feb 22, 2013
 Thank you Wray! Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there Unfortunately, as I could have done with it during puberty! She was practicing then too, had been since the mid 1940's, and was herself cured of migraines by her doctor giving her progesterone injections. She began using it for her patients in 1948 and continued to do so for the next 50 years. So yes I think you have a progesterone deficiency, and possibly had it since the birth of your daughter. OCD without the C? Whether it's OCD or OD inositol cures it, so you could always try some and see! You'll need a minimum of 4000mg/day, although the studies have gone up to 18,000mg/day, see here, here, here and here. If you do, let me know if it helps, although I suspect yours is a progesterone problem. But who knows, symptoms overlap to such an extent it's difficult to pinpoint what's behind them. Take care Wray
Feb 23, 2013
 Thank you
by: Anonymous

Hi again Wray,
Isn't it true also that if you have a progesterone deficiency in the first place, your inability to handle stress will be compromised? I have also been easily stressed throughout my life, again beginning at puberty (looking back and talking to my family more closely about this, it seems I really changed at 15, two years after my first period). I can't help but think that my progesterone deficiency contributed to my stress response and my stress response further contributing to my deficiency. Do you have any personal experience with this or believe this to be true.
Thank you....you are a wealth of knowledge and I just love how you have turned your personal struggles into helping so many of us out there!
Feb 24, 2013
 Thank you
by: Wray

Hi there Most definitely. I was always a happy go lucky child, although I could fly into a rage about something! But when puberty hit it all changed, except when at boarding school. I spent most of my school years at those, all girls too. But when in the 'real' world, I was painfully shy and had little self confidence. I tried to avoid stressful situations, as I found them difficult to handle. But through misjudgement, often seemed to land myself in one! And you are so right, it's a vicious circle, Stress leads to a drop in progesterone, which leads to less able to cope with it, etc. But stress also drops amino acids, some of which are powerfully calming. I take taurine daily as it helps calm. And of course vitamin D drops too, so this would affect progesterone. The B vitamins drop and those are needed to convert the aminos into neurotransmitters etc. And of course digestion slows, so you're not getting as many nutrients as you should! I never had PMS thank heavens, but the PND made up for it. I found after it my self esteem took a knock too. I was 33 when I had my daughter, having married late. And then all too soon peri-menopause hit. I was about 41 then and found I was permanently anxious, and as the years passed, more symptoms were added. Until as I said I felt like a basket case the ±2 years before Menopause. That's my life in a nutshell! It's interesting you say how I've used my own struggles to help others. Progesterone did that! I was drawn into it not by my own choosing. I started using it towards the tail end of peri and friends asked what had changed me. I told them, they then asked me to tell their friends, then the whole thing snowballed. I used to give talks, the smallest was one person, the largest 180. If anyone had asked me prior to using progesterone to speak publicly, I would have told them to take a jump! But once using it there was no fear whatsoever. I did this for 3 years, but overdid it and crashed my vehicle I was so tired. I was fine, but my vehicle took 5 months to fix, think the angels were looking after me. But it did take time for me to recover from the tiredness. Continued below
Feb 24, 2013
 Thank you Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there We'd had a website up and running since 1998, but not at all active. It was after the crash and my decision not to do any more talks, that it became interactive. Funny the turns in one's life isn't it? I loved doing the talks, meeting new people. Although the stories I heard would send me into a rage, so much so I gave myself urticaria with angiodema too. That was more stress! I still hear those same horror stories, of drugs and surgery and chemo, but have now learnt not take them on myself. I love the internet contact even more than the talks. There's so much more to offer, by giving other websites for help, reading studies on nutrients and how they can help in certain ways, or able to give papers to back up what I say. Hearing other's ideas, suggestions for healing, it's all so fascinating. Take care Wray
Feb 24, 2013
 daughter headed into puberty
by: Anonymous

Wray,
You mentioned you put your daughter on progesterone at 14 1/2. Was she already showing symptoms or did you do it as a precautionary? Over the years, has she had any issues with depression or with similar symptoms you had? My daughter is heading towards puberty and I am wondering if I should put her on Progesterone given the roller coaster I have been on with my hormones. You mention that hormones are not genetic in the previous comment so she could have a completely different experience than me. I just want to prevent her from the suffering I have endured.

Thanks,
Les
Feb 25, 2013
 daughter headed into puberty
by: Wray

Hi Les Yes it was a precaution! She came back from school one day saying some of her friends were depressed. It made me recall my puberty experiences so I gave her some. She had very erratic cycles then so used it daily. It was only when she was 18 she realised she should be following them! She didn't get any depression during puberty, but then it could have been she wasn't going to. She doesn't get PMS, as I didn't, but then she has been using progesterone. She seems to be following me, well our family in fact, as the past 5 generations have all married late and had only one or two children. So I don't know if she will get PND like I did. But hopefully not as she is using progesterone, and knows what it can do to help. My brother met his second wife when her daughter was only 14 and a bit. She was already on anti-depressants and going for 'counselling'. So he put her on progesterone, inositol and tryptophan and she hasn't looked back, still uses the progesterone and is now 25. Why not wait to see how your daughter responds to puberty before using the progesterone. Unless you had depression then like I did, then it would be a good idea. I gave you rather an obscure answer about hormones and genetics. We are influenced by our parents genes, which would affect hormones. But how those genes are expressed plays an even greater role, hence my comment about epigenetics. For instance a lack of progesterone, vitamin D too while still a foetus, affects the way a child develops. If the mother has many toxins, these will affect the child, particularly the EDC's (endocrine disrupting chemicals). But the mother herself is fine, as her mother wasn't affected by toxins. Epigenetics can affect genes very quickly, plus they are now finding those changes can be inherited. Even the way a mother cares for her child can affect it, see here. At the end of our page on Pregnancy there's an audio interview with Dr. David Crews about epigenetic inheritance. Take care Wray

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