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Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?

by Denise
(Texas)

First, let me start by saying that I am well versed in bio identicals. I'm not knocking bio-progesterone, but I am going to say that some of the information that I have seen posted is just wrong. I cannot, in any level, mode of delivery etc... Tolerate the stuff. Once again, and probably my fifth try on the lowest dose humanly possible (6.5mg orally), I had increased estrogen dominance symptoms (yes, I know it can wake up sleepy estrogen receptors, that appears to be me), irritability, sore breasts, bloating etc...but the one thing that puts me over the edge is the insanity it does to my skin: horrible cystic acne and a lovely case of perioral dermatitis. My face is a complete and utter mess, enough to cause depression. I mean, I don't want to leave the house. It's that disgusting. And, it's just like the last four times I attempted taking it. It does NOT leave the system quickly either. The last times I took it, it took 6 months off the stuff for my system to calm down and the zits to finally calm down.

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Nov 28, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Carol K

I read your post and just shook my head in disbelief. If you are so well versed in bio identical hormones then you should know that Progesterone can NEVER poison your body, you should know that you are taking far too little and therefore stimulating Estrogen, which is causing all these problems and you should also know that taking it orally is one of the worst ways of trying to deliver it into your system. So, all in all while I am trying my best not to be rude, please get yourself informed or well versed as you call it and when you are well versed you will realise that not knowing the facts is what is poisoning your body, NOT Progesterone.
Nov 29, 2013
 Progesterone and skin eruptions
by: Jo

I have a similar problem. Whenever I use progesterone cream, I break out on pimples and also have rosacea flare-ups. I know my liver is not functioning optimally (hypothyroid/hashimotos linked), and I am wondering if this is the reason. OR, I had a hysterectomy a couple years ago, so by now I expect I have mainly oestrogen in my body from nostly environmental/food/cosmetic sources.

I never had the skin flare-ups prior to the hysterectomy, and thus the resulting loss of eostrogen.

Apart from the flare-ups, progesterone makes me feel better and I would be very disappointed if I had to stop using it. I believe it is a life saver, especially in this day and age.

Have you come across this problem Wray?
Thanks.
Nov 30, 2013
 I have the same problem as Denise
by: Corinne

I went to a specialist in bio identicals who put me on progesterone and I had a really bad reaction to it. I became immediately so depressed on the stuff, I cried and had thoughts of suicide (I'm a usually happy person so this was odd). It made me feel awful. So we kept lowering the dose with no better effect and I had to stop. I was using a cream and applying it to back of knees, under arms and pelvic area, so I believe I did everything right.
The proffessional I was using seemed to think it was because I have a bad case of candida, which I am now working on to get rid of. Not sure if I am brave enough to give progesterone another try.
(Carol, I don't understand why you got so angry and mean with Denise)
Nov 30, 2013
 Not to good 7years
by: Anonymous

I agree I v hav been using progesterone for 7 years w ith on relief I think its about bod y chemistry it's made feel depressed sad irratated to the point of divorce what was a good marriage
I only used it for hot flaheses I use 400mg A day
Dec 01, 2013
 Progesterone and skin eruptions
by: Wray

Hi Jo Yes often, it happens to many women. There are many more symptoms too, some of which you'll find on our Oestrogen Dominance page. The symptoms can occur if we make excess oestrogen, or if as you say we are exposed to environmental oestrogen mimics. But they can occur when starting progesterone, particularly if the amount used is too low. Progesterone stimulates oestrogen, so it rises initially. It's essential to use enough progesterone to prevent this. There's more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Although you've had a hyst, you don't mention if your ovaries were removed, I imagine they must have been as you say you have mainly oestrogen mimics in you. But removing the ovaries also removes our main source of progesterone. But one of our main sources of oestrogen are our fat cells, these produce oestrogen to the day we die. But they produce no progesterone to counter the oestrogen. Take care Wray
Dec 01, 2013
 Hate progesterone
by: Anonymous

I have to agree with this I took progesterone for 6 years at high doses( 560mg a day) I spent a fortune just to feel constantly depressed unmotivated anxious and insomnia the only reason I took it because I thought we needed it it did nothing for my hot flashes anything like GABA does same thing
Dec 02, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body . . .
by: Anonymous

Don't feed the trolls!!
Dec 04, 2013
 Poison to me as well
by: Marnie

I can't tolerate it either. Not because of what it does to my skin, but because it makes me feel like I am going loco. I feel great right before time to take it, pre-cyclical, and when I take it, WHAM!!! I start feeling fearful, and increased anxiety, and oh it's horrible. And it takes a few days of being off of it, to calm back down.

I take BHRT, rx creme. Just wonder if I tried OTC if that would help. I just know I hate to do that to myself every month.

I have no symptoms of estrogen dominance, so I don't think that is the problem, and lab results don't indicate it either.

Hope you can find some help with your issues.
Dec 04, 2013
 Progesterone - can't live without it!
by: Alyce

I have been using progesterone for over 10 years now and what a difference it has made to my life, I could not begin to imagine my life without it.

Doing research I have found that there are various brands of progesterone on the market and most of them do not contain the correct amount of progesterone concentration. To the 560mg per day person, what brand were you using and what is your vitamin D level? A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone as Wray has stated countless times on her website. If progesterone is not used correctly it will not work!

Carol K, spot on!!
Dec 05, 2013
 560 a day reply
by: Anonymous

I am using natpro and I also use 10,000 units of d creme a day I live in Tx and get plenty of sunshine it just feels like my body turns it to cortisol or something I was same when pregnant my naturpathic doctor once said listen to your own body just because it's natural does not mean it suits everyone
Dec 06, 2013
 560 a day
by: Joy

I am delighted to here that you are using Natpro as well as taking 10 000iu's of vitamin D daily however, do you know what your vitamin D level is? A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone as I am sure you have read on Wray's website. It is vital that your level is correct. Are you taking magnesium as it is the co-factor for Vitamin D, so is Vitamin K.

Please do not be fooled about living in a sunny country. I live in a sunny country too and I was terribly deficient. To get sufficient vitamin D from the sun, we need to go out into the sun DAILY at the hottest time of the day with absolutely no clothing on at all for 10 - 20 minutes depending on your skin type, then and only then would we benefit from the sun. How many of us are able to do this today, we are either in doors working on our computers or in front of the TV and when we do go out into the sun we cover up with sunscreen and clothing. Only apply sunscreen after approximately 15 minutes, this will enable the sun to penetrate our skin. If you know what you level is please advise.

Do you know what you vitamin D level was when you were pregnant, it could explain why you felt terrible then too.

Are you sure that you are not suffering from adrenal fatigue? If your adrenals are stressed they will rob other sources to enable them to make the cortisol. All the more reason to use supplemental progesterone! Progesterone actually reduces the stress response, so helping the adrenals by activating GABA, our most calming neurotransmitter, see here and here.

It might help you if you have not done so already, to have your hormone levels tested that way one can tell what is going on. Please read the Hormone Testing page - see here.

Hope this helps you.
Dec 06, 2013
 We are all different
by: Anonymous

I have a question for Carol K. Are you a doctor??? A bioidentical expert??? I have seen some of your responses and its always to the effect of it could NEVER be progesterone causing the problem. All of these women who have problems with progesterone are all WRONG. You need to realize there are alot of women out there who can't tolerate progesterone in any amount. If I showed my doctors (including ones who specialize in bioidenticals) the massive amounts of progesterone that are suggested on this website they would flip. You can't find doctors out there that suggest these outrageous amounts.

We are all different but to Carol K - your response, and the nasty, know it all way in which you respond, isn't warranted.
Dec 06, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Good thing it's snowing today...I can catch up with all these comments. Wray, for heaven sakes I see why you close your computer. These ladies are like the turkey buzzards out here....there are dozens of them circling in the sky...around and around they go...until one of them gets the urge to come down to the ground and search for something...then they all come swooping in, chattering and squawking to only find the first buzzard found nothing. Then they all fly away to start the process over again. My thoughts with the first person is if you first start off to claim that you are an expert on the subject, then why search Wray's opinion? You don't need her expertise on the matter as you are able to figure it out. And most women I have come across that have had severe acne problems have porcelain complexions during pregnancy...I included....when progesterone is super-duper high. Try some "mother load" apple cider vinegar...it has done wonders on my 28 year old daughter's face as she has had cysts along her chin and jaw from using a company phone continuously. As for the other ladies, if progesterone doesn't, hasn't or won't work for you then why on earth are you on this site. This site is for women and men who progesterone works for. You must find another solution to your hormonal imbalance. But don't knock it down when it works for many of us out here. Don't badger the poor woman for spending endless hours researching for the well-being of others. Do you all think Wray has all these problems she provides research for? No, she doesn't....she has a wealth of information that she tries to share with folks who appreciate it and will try it and see if it works for them. Quit pointing a finger at her if the progesterone doesn't work for you. There are alot of other factors involved other than progesterone and I'm sure some of you say you are incorporating those factors in but you really aren't. Be truthful and the solution will come. God bless to you all and hopefully you'll find hormonal balance. Let it snow, let it snow let it snow!
Dec 06, 2013
 560mg aday
by: Anonymous

Thank you joy for your reply I do go out in the sun more than 20 mins a day more like an hour I've been a sun worshipper all my life and when at work I am out 50 per cent of day in it I suppose maybe it is adrenal fatigue from I've been researching but GABA is a no no that makes me feel horrible just like a lot of so called antidepressant herbs also tryptophan thats what concerns me because I believe progesterone raises GABA thanks again
Dec 07, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Carol K

Hi there

I am sorry if my comments were a bit harsh but Alyce is right, there are so many different types of Progesterone and even with the creams, the concentration is not all the same. I am just tired of people making comments on this website and moaning about Progesterone and asking for advice, when they aren't even using this product! It just doesn't make sense to me. If you bought a product from Store A, would you go to Store B and complain about it, just because they stock a "similar" product. That is how daft it is.

There is enough evidence that Natpro is a very good product and it has worked for so many people, however Progesterone is not the cure for all ills, so people need to be realistic. Anyway, the best is to be informed with the correct information.
Dec 07, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Wray

Hi RJ Bless you again! I'm not going to be answering any comments unless by users of Natpro. I've been doing this for 17 years now, answering all queries that come in, I'm burnt out now. Even lengthy queries from women who have a script from their doctors! If they want answers there is so much info on the website now, as there are over 5000 pages, plus we have a search field. Or of course they can ask the people/doctor they bought the progesterone from. I so value your support. Many blessings, take care Wray
Dec 07, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Joy

RJ you are so darn funny and correct of course! As you say, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.

Take care.
Dec 07, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Wray

Hi Carol and Alyce Bless you both for your support too! Take care Wray
Dec 07, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Oh Wray, don't get burnt out just because of some bad apples. In your heart you know there are more who appreciate what you are doing and who have found miraculous results. Goodness, I'm one of them and with the improvements of my health, especially, heart palps and uterus, my sex drive is slowly coming back too and it's been two years and let's not forget I'm not getting younger each year. You know when something comes up, health wise, I google it on your site first because I know you have the research for me to read. You are always going to have the hecklers...always. And you know what...that person hasn't found any relief or they wouldn't be on your site searching for solutions. Obviously, their doctor, who would go bonkers if they knew how much you prescribe on this site...seriously...must be a man or a woman who hasn't hit peri, isn't giving this person the relief they are seeking that's why they are searching and their attitude shows huge levels of estrogen...you know crabby-like;) If this person had children she was able to tolerate high levels of progesterone sometime in her life. Look today we were snowed in and like a woman, I have to get to the store so I told our youngest son, let's go down and get the tractor, we need to make a trail for all the birds anyway so they come out of the barn and we had one stuck in the tree last night, afraid of the snow and she needs to come down. So, we warm up our car to get out on the road, that isn't cleaned yet, to go down to the shop. My son says mom, you better stay in these other tracks that people have made or you are going to slide off into the ditch...better get some speed going up the hill mom...on and on he goes. So, we make it and I said I'll drive back and he said oh no, you better not there is no way you will make it back up the hill you are going to slide off and go off the hill and then the tow truck won't be able to get you out of there...geeze. So we put the car in the shop and I cram into the tractor with him to bring it back to the house. I get in the house and my husband said why didn't you bring the car back and I said your son told me I wouldn't make it and he said you've done it enough, have lots of experience and you would of made it. Okay, so lesson learned....never doubt yourself and most of all don't give up! Enjoy your tropics...gosh I went out today at 4 degrees with a wet head and no coat. Lots of blubber to keep the fires burning LOL. Take care of yourself and here's to a better day for you! God Bless RJ
Dec 07, 2013
 To RJ
by: Anonymous

RJ, I respecfully disagree. People like yourself and Carol K are the vultures. When someone has an issue with the progesterone product, you are the ones who swoop in immediately saying the person doesn't know what they are talking about. If someone dares to question it or tries to figure out why it isn't working for them, your answer is immediately "IT CAN'T BE THE PROGESTERONE" or "YOU AREN'T USING IT RIGHT" or "IT'S NOT THE NATPRO BRAND" or "IT'S ESTROGEN".

My recommendation - ladies who are having issues, discuss this with your doctor. None of these women on here are doctors and let's not forget a product is being sold here.

Be informed and work with your doc on a personal level to find a solution. These folks on here obviously don't want to hear when you have a problem. They only want to hear the stories for whom it works. Very sad indeed.
Dec 07, 2013
 560mg a day
by: Anonymous

For all you ladies about other people complaining and moaning I am not I think progesterone is great for some I have seen it in friends and I think wray is gods gift to earth for women but sometimes we need some thing else just pray for each other and god bless wray
Dec 08, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Glad it's still snowing here lol. Oh, I cannot just let "Anonymous" make the remark she or he has without answering. First, I would like to suggest you go to all my posts on here and see how and why I found Wray's site. I am so very curious why on earth you even come to a site like this other than to chatter and banter on with folks who the product works for. If it doesn't work for you then go away and quit arguing and telling us we need a doctor's assistance. Plain and simple. I would advise you to read all the comments that women and men post onto this site and see that 99% of them have all been to their doctors who they trusted and confided in with no relief. Unless you call a hysterectomy, D&C, mastectomy, miscarriages, etc., relief for that person. Do not tell me that I am telling everyone that progesterone is the only cure and you're doing it wrong or not using Natpro and so on. You read my posts, I don't think I have ever said that to anyone. I have told my story and what has worked for me. Now you stating everyone must remember that there is a product being sold here. Oh be serious. Yes, vitamin D3, K2, magnesium, boron, zinc, bioflavonoids, taurine, GABA, tyrosine, glutamine,MCT oil, the Keto Diet, the Paleo Diet....yep, Wray has mentioned them all and recommended them to a lot of folks on here and you bet she's making a huge profit on those products. Really? So she sells a product to help women out. Who cares. You're an adult, with a brain that can reason and figure things out. You should have the ability to determine whether it's a gimmick or not. But to suggest to everyone that Wray's site gives false information because she is trying to sell a product...please. All the research Wray provides on here is tremendous. Take the time and read it for yourself and then maybe the lightbulb will go on about your doctor, who by the way, obviously is NOT giving you any relief or you wouldn't be searching the internet for a solution to your problems. I am a very active reader of GreenMedInfo, Mike Adam aka NatureNews, Mercola (although I'm reserved about some of his things), Dr. Michael Murray, EarthClinic (Ted is excellent), Wolf Creek Ranch for my pups....would you like me to go on? Today our doctors are caught up in pill pushing. Cont.
Dec 08, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it? Part 2
by: RJ

Cont.----If a test or procedure doesn't give an explanation then there's nothing wrong with you. Seems as though you are experiencing that dilemma right now. As there's nothing wrong with you from your tests, but yet you're still searching for an answer to something that we aren't privy to. It has only been in the last few years that doctors are finally seeing that we are severely deficient in Vitamin D and a lot are recommending it now...imagine that. How about the recent extensive research on unrefined coconut oil for mild to severe Alzheimer patients, which I use on my dad...wow is all I can say about it stuff. Doctors are finally coming to the realization that we are very deficient in magnesium too as the soil of our earth is almost sterile from years of usage and chemicals. Would you like me to go into the GMO products (estrogen filled) that Monsanto is pushing. Hurray for Hawaii...banning all of it. Yes, doctors are needed for certain things, but remember 80% of all our ailments are due to inflammation, which D3 can cure. If a natural remedy gives us the cure where would that put doctors and pharmaceutical companies....out in the snow ;) But sadly, I believe you have a very closed mind, but you keep searching and continue to let your doctor put you on a regimen that is going to work for you. You will soon be back to the internet looking for answers because the protocol the doctor gives you isn't going to work because a pill does not fix the problem it only puts a bandaid on it and at some point in time you are going to have to rip the bandaid off and fix it. Oh and the only reason I have been on here so much of late is because I'm snowed in, but most the time Wray rarely hear from me. So my dear, I'm not one of those turkey buzzards flying out there swooping in. No, I just feed them every now and then;) Have a wonderful day and may the Lord bring you peace and the solution you are searching for. Find some happiness in your life, perhaps the Lord and He'll give you the answers you are searching for. God Bless! RJ
Dec 12, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Carol K

Thanks RJ. You have said it all! Some people just don't get it, do they? :). Your life there seems very interesting. Be safe. All the best.
Dec 12, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Carol, we know how this stuff works don't we. We are fortunate to throw caution to the wind and just go with it. What else did we have to lose huh, except maybe more blood, sanity, hair and sex drive LOL. We are criticized for giving it such high marks just because it has worked for us. Always have hecklers in the crowd. I guess it's just their frustration that they can't find the peace in their troubles. But, others will eventually find out, Carol, that their solution isn't in a pill and sadly, some will continue in their misery having never found that solution. Yes, it is quite exciting out here. We had the old farmer up the road out at 11 o'clock last night shooting something...geeze...who knows what, but everyone's still alive over there lol. God Bless to you and have a joyous Christmas! RJ
Dec 13, 2013
 Unreal
by: Anonymous

RJ, I feel sorry for you. Sitting behind your computer up in "God's Country" telling others how Wray's cream is the best out there and delivering snide remarks to those who disagree. Telling others how doctors don't know anything, but a select few women on here have the answer. It's all about buying Natpro and slathering it on in tremendous amounts. It's just that simple, isn't it? Give me a break. You criticize me for the suggestion that women should consult with their doctors for an issue? Seriously? According to you they need to come here for answers. You believe doctor's don't know anything, but you've come upon a true miracle - that being Natpro cream. I am glad Wray believes in her product - online, Wray is listed as the CEO of Organic Products Distribution in Cape Town South Africa. CEO's want to sell products; hence, the Natpro Associate Program with commissions. A product is being marketed here. And telling women to use ultra high amounts equates to selling more tubes. If you look on the Better Business Bureau website, Organic Products LLC of Delaware alternately referred to as Natpro Associate Program has an "F" rating. What is that about? In any event, I would be very careful about recommending such high amounts of progesterone to women you don't even know. It obviously doesn't work for everyone as evidenced by some of the posts on here. And don't forget on this website women are asked to share their stories and experiences. For you to only want to hear the positive ones is one sided and ridiculous. Have a Happy Holiday.
Dec 13, 2013
 Progesterone is poison . . .
by: CL

Hello, RJ and Carol,
Right on! AMEN and holiday blessings to you both, to Wray, and all! Best, CL (1000 mg/d to resolve severe symptoms since 2011, now weathering peri with a smile!)
Dec 14, 2013
 To anonymous
by: Corinne

I have to say that I admire your way of arguing a point.
I love that you went for straight facts. No name calling (Carol & RJ),
you were concise and factual even as you went for the jugular.
But I really appreciate your shedding some truth on this matter and being the reasonable voice of women for whom progesterone, no matter who makes it or what the amount is, doesn't work for.
What RJ, Carol and Wray are forgetting is that it's having 2 points of view (or more) that make for real information. A discussion.
That's how we all learn something.
Why are we on this site if it doesn't work for us?
Because we are still looking for answers.
Why are there always people who are frightened by questions or points of views other than there own?
Why do they take our questions or a failed attempt as a personal assault on what works for them?
Dec 14, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Yes, Anonymous or Denise, God's Country is beautiful, away from the stresses of life and allowing one to tune into the Lord and tune out the sinners. The snow is beautiful with it's ice and even the turkey buzzards provide God's comedy to us here. For your snide remark about me sitting at my computer in God's Country. Born and raised in the city, lived in a cookie cutter home, drove the same roads every day, listened to people's complaint each day...with a smile...mind you...all of it up until five years ago. Made some sacrifices, did without many things and moved to the country. So, your point is... exactly? I guess you'd say we country folks are stupid and know nothing, huh? Court reported for ten years of my life and heard enough to make me find the Lord and run from it. I could care less whether Wray has an "F" rating or not and that she's from Cape Town which she doesn't keep a secret to anyone who asks (do you drive a foreign vehicle...if you have not noticed most of our products are imported into this country). Her product works...she doesn't sell all the supplements and books that she recommends to everyone on this site, so how could you accuse her of pushing her product and wanting to make more money. I don't know about you but I buy my vitamin D3, K2, magnesium, NAC and bioflavinoids from Swanson Vitamins, you know one of those big CEO's just in it for the money...Wray doesn't sell those items. And such a silly comparison you make for her being the CEO of Organics Products and being that said CEO she wants to make big money....I guess you don't buy anything from all the CEO's that hire advertising firms to push their products onto us each day, every day, every hour of every day....cereals, toilet paper, body soap, cars, pain relievers...you get my point....that is the way of life. Advertise and talk about your product and try to sell it....what all successful CEO and/or entrepreneurs do to make a living. If it was up to you there would be no products or "things" available to the people of this world because the makers of those said products would be money, hungry scoundrels. Gosh we would still be living in the time of the cavemen if it was your doing...but you would be selective because you would need the maker of the pills your doctor would be recommending to you. Cont.--
Dec 14, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Cont. -- Good doctors are rare to find and most of us are unfortunate in that we haven't found one of them and must take our own health into our own hands because the lot of doctors that are left out there....stink. Let me say that if Natpro doesn't work for you then go someplace else. But this is a site where a product has helped many folks and for those who come here asking for suggestions with an open mind...not starting off a thread stating, first I want you to know that I am well versed in bhrt, geeze, how rude. Do you really think people will like you coming across like that? You didn't even make it up to the plate...you had three strikes before you even got there. You wanted to make an impact on everyone that's why your comment title stated, on a site that says progesterone is good for us, that it is a poison. So for hecklers, like yourself, we have no need for you. You are an unhappy, troublemaker that has not found peace or a solution to your problem so you want to lash at others for it. Doctors could care less and that's why people get on here looking for answers. Isn't that why you are on here? Didn't your doctor give you a "miracle pill"? If doctors are so great WHY ARE YOU ON THIS SITE LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER? Just like the woman who posted on here yesterday about her 19 year old son having a problem with copper absorption. That woman has done her research and has found that there is a correlation between high estrogen and progesterone and has found Wray to help her answer her questions....that.....her doctors and hospital could not give to her. They have basically told her he has to live with it. Well apparently to you that's the answer you'd live with, but not this woman, Wray, myself or all the others who have come to this site looking for some sort of solution for a problem....the well being of my family and friends is most important to me. You are creating negative energy for me, Denise. You are an anger person. You were the type of person that my husband and I, during our 30+ years in business, used to say "Give that person five bucks and tell them to go elsewhere". Find the Lord and that anger will turn to peace. God Bless and Merry Christmas! RJ
Dec 14, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Carol K

Dear Anonymous

I have no idea why you even bother to go onto this site because your comments are toxic and there is no place here for someone like you. People have choices and a right to their opinion but no-one is forcing them to use huge amounts of Natpro. People use large amounts because it works for them, not because they are being told by Wray to do it. She has turned them all into mindless robots has she? There are lots of people in the health industry who sell products and I am not naive to believe they are all legitimate, but I feel I have to defend Wray because at NO time whatsoever have I EVER read a response where she has directly recommended her own product. She gives people the information and allows them to make up their own minds. Sure, it is a business but it is one she went into to help people first and foremost. Should she do it for free? Wray has put her heart and soul into helping so many people, many of whom do not even use Natpro! Have you ever read anywhere where she has told someone to switch to her product. NEVER! You are a nasty person who needs to go and find your answers somewhere else.If you think doctors have all the answers, off you go ... and don't waste your time or ours coming back with your negative, cynical, snide remarks.
Dec 14, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Corinne only you know the answer to your questions. You cannot continue to go to a doctor searching for answers and then search the internet for answers. You will eventually have to give one or the other up. You cannot trust both because they are not one and the same, nor do they believe in the same protocol. Natpro did not work for me in the beginning...read all my posts....but I did not get on here and tell people on a "pro progesterone" site that progesterone did not work for me. That really takes a lot of nerve and arrogance. Instead I asked Wray and others what I could do to make it work. In fact, at one point in time Wray finally had to tell me that she did not know what else to suggest for my problems. I did not condemn, call people names and call Wray a money hungry CEO with a bad BBB rating. We are adults Corinne and mature adults can make mature decisions. I It's not my right to come onto a site that I do not control and run my mouth about how it doesn't work for me. That's a heckler. Wray spends a lot of time doing research on other things and will give her information freely. Read my posts about my mother, which was unrelated to progesterone. I found my answer for my mother'st gout on here and gallbladder for my dad and when my daughter had two blood transfusions, Wray helped me with that also. All unrelated to progesterone. That's what makes me upset and makes me call the bantering by all these negative progesterone users, turkey buzzards. You all call them vultures, true they are, but that's not what I was referring to. It's their formation and how they gang up on a sole one....as Denise did with Wray and then you and some other posters followed suit....not necessarily ganging up, but posting how your doctors say this and that. This is Wray's site, who, thank the good Lord, sells a progesterone product. How unappreciative negative posters are for the work this woman is doing to help people she doesn't even know. Small, closed minded folks. Where is your and all the other mean posters I have read over the past two years', hearts and soul. The goodness of someone to help others and here you guys are throwing stones at her. Yep that really makes me upset. She helped my family with things the doctors wanted to remove from my family members' bodies. Doctors said go to surgery and cut it out and Wray said don't do that until you try this and her remedy worked. This site isn't for folks who have doctors helping them, this site is for folks who have doctors who make us a number and could care less and when one pill doesn't work they push another pill on us until they finally say I'm sorry I do not have anymore pills to give you, you need a shrink. Cont.--
Dec 14, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Cont.-- People who the creme has worked for have given all the negative users of progesterone, suggestions on what can help them out (just as I did to Denise for her acne...I said hey this worked for me maybe try it and it'll work for you too)and instead of saying thank you I will try it and hope it works for me, you have to go on and condemn the person. Wouldn't it be better for you to try the suggestions. We pro-users have all been where you and Denise are/were at. How long have you tried it, what dosage, whose product, what form, what other supplements are you taking, are you cutting out estrogen foods, lotions, cleaners, etc. It's so overwhelming to cut all those things out that most rather say it isn't working for me than admit that it's hard for them to change and do the protocol all pro-user's are suggesting they use. I know Corinne, I was one of those who wasn't admitting in the beginning. It's way more than just the creme. Two years, Corinne, it has taken me to find some level of normalcy and I still have ups and downs, but I don't make it a point to come on here and trash Wray and all others who it is working for. And believe me it took way more than just progesterone to get to this level. Research this site and you'll find out it's going to take way more than progesterone to find what you're looking for. I'm not frightened, as you mentioned and I'm not knocking you or Denise because it doesn't work for either of you. You both are saying I am but I can't see where I've said anything of the sort, other than telling you what has worked for me and calling you a turkey buzzard...that's what really has everyone's goat. Watch a flock of them and you'll understand what I was talking about. My condemnation is in regards to how mean people are to a person who spends her time to find out answers for others. I'm telling you it works for me and maybe you too will find success with it if you do as I did and finally throw caution to the wind. If everything and/or everyone has suggested to you doesn't help and you're not open for any more suggestions or you continue to go back to your doctor and tell them what we are saying you should do to acquire the success for ourselves and then they tell you that's wrong or they would flip, when most doctors do not believe in natural remedies, then it is time for you to find another site that you agree with and will work for you. Read all my posts before you pass judgment. Until then you have no right to condemn when you truly know nothing about my story and how I got to this point. God Bless! RJ
Dec 14, 2013
 Both sides!
by: Laura

well, I started on natpro and instantly had worse symptoms, but decided that was a good sign, telling me I had high estrogen before! It was like riding the storm, do I continue or do I stop? But if I do stop, I am then back to square one. I have spent the last 3 years in my doctors room having tests seeing all different specialists with no answers other than to take anti-ds or the pill!
I had decided I would give the progesterone cream 6 months because I had no other option, other to be stuck feeling like this for good! I had read this website back to front and knew it was going to be a tough journey, and all I can say is I am so glad I did, this is the best I have felt for year, I am not complete yet, but am nearly at the top of the mountain. I really thought that at the beginning I could not tolerate it either, but it is part of getting the results you are searching for.
There are 2 sides to every argument, but you just need to ask yourself, what could you feel like if you ride the storm and give it a try for 6 months, or continue working with your doctor, but please do come back on here to share your doctors diagnosis, when they find it!!!! Which I hope they do very soon for you.
if you never want to take pro cream again, that is your choice, but do at least get your vit d levels checked, then maybe one day you will be able to tolerate pro cream.
All I can say is thank you so much to Wray and all the ladies on this site for helping so many women xxxx
Dec 15, 2013
 To Corinne
by: Anonymous

Corinne, you are spot on. It is quite amazing, actually, to see women like RJ and Carol respond in such a defensive and aggressive manner when one does not agree with them and they immediately enter attack mode. They do not want to hear from anyone who did not have good results using progesterone, let alone those who are simply asking why they couldn't tolerate it. Instead of responding in a helpful, respectful and open-minded manner they feel threatened. How DARE we come on to this "pro-progesterone" website because we did not experience good results??? Do they not see that this website asks for "your thoughts or experiences" as well as "questions or concerns"??? It does not say only write in if you have positive results and I would hope that Wray herself would want to hear both positive and negative experiences and not just positive ones. It's called FEEDBACK and one can become a better person learning from it. Can you imagine a place like Amazon.com, for example, only asking for positive reviews of its products or telling people don't review a product unless it is positive??? No - - they give you 1 to 5 stars so you can rate a product and write either positive remarks or neqative ones based on your experience with it. Because we question something or do not have good results, on this site we are called "hecklers". Because we say the progesterone didn't work for us our comments are referred to as "toxic". Carol K. has the audacity to say our comments are "cynical" and "snide" when she is the one who responded in this manner to the initial post and then she realizes and goes on a few posts later to apologize for her "harsh" comments. They are incapable of responding in a reasonable fashion if you disagree with them and they immediately start throwing insults and say we don't have a right to be on here because this is a "pro-progesterone" website. Are you kidding me??? You would think they would want to hear ALL experiences, both for whom it works and whom it doesn't - - but they clearly don't - - they only want to hear from those who are "pro-progesterone". I don't know what some of these folks will do if the FDA starts regulating this stuff - - then watch the comments fly!!! Have a good holiday Corinne!
Dec 18, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Carol K

Dear Anon

I am afraid you still do not get it, so this is going to be the last comment I will make on this particular post, as your argument is just ridiculous and you have strayed way off the track. The original comment by Denise read - "I cannot, in any level, mode of delivery etc... Tolerate the stuff. Once again, and probably my fifth try on the lowest dose humanly possible (6.5mg orally)" SHE IS NOT USING NATPRO! What you do not get is that Natpro is a product which contains Progesterone. It should NOT be compared to all the other Progesterone products out there, just because it also contains Progesterone, unless the product is also a cream with the identical amount of Progesterone. My argument (and RJ's) is that people come onto this sight and complain about Progesterone but THEY ARE NOT USING NATPRO. If they have used Natpro and it doesn't work for them, fair enough, we are all different but once again DO NOT COMPLAIN on NATPRO's site about how terrible Progesterone is if you are not using their product! Surely this is quite simple to understand?

Anyway, I have no other way of putting this. If you don't get it now then I cannot put it in any other way. All the best.
Dec 18, 2013
 Thank you!!!
by: Marnie

"To Corinne from Anonymous",
Thank you so much for expressing so well, exactly what happens when a person comes on here questioning problems that they are having with progesterone, trying to get some answers and help. Instead of help, we get attacked. This is only a place for people that just LOVE progesterone, and not a place for help.


No use trying to get help here!

You can't express any PROBLEMS you are having without being attacked and insulted. RJ and Carol just ASSUME that you have just begun and have not tried several different routes, dosages, and everything else.


And then they use 6000 words to attack! PLEASE!!!!

Again,a BIG thank you for sharing that with us in such an eloquent way.
Dec 19, 2013
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

God Bless to everyone and may each reader have a joyous and peaceful Merry Christmas! You too Wray! Here's to new beginnings for everyone! RJ
Apr 02, 2014
 To Carol k
by: Denise

I guess I should have prefaced, that I started out on a large dose 8 years ago (in my 30's) using a compounded cream. I have tried all modalities and delivery methods. Please don't be rude. I am well versed. Just frustrated that no dosage level, titrated up or down to the tiniest dose, or deliver has worked.
Apr 02, 2014
 By the way
by: Denise

By the way...I am in no way knocking bio P for others. I think it's wonderful that many find relief. My post is...why not me? Listen, I ran a board on yahoo for years, helping people with thyroid issues. I'm here to find an answer to this madness. I'm 42 years young and have been battling pitifully low progesterone shortly after having my second child, so about 10 years. I have desperately tried to balance all hormones, deficiencies, adrenals, etc... To get this under control. My thyroid is the only thing I have been good at keeping relatively optimal (I say relatively as hashi's loves to wax and wane). I know that my vitamin D is best around 60-70, ferritin 70+, b12 over 500. I have taken rhodiola, pregnelone, vitex, DIM (yikes, not good for me when the estrogen is now dropping), the list goes on. I'm desperate. I've gone gluten free even, despite zero gluten antibodies on all four tests. Now that I'm 42, I'm crashing even harder. I have skipped periods, 2 week periods when they are here. It's a living nightmare. Now I have zero libido and well, what's an orgasm? The progesterone is clearly an issue: however, I cannot handle it in an form or dose. WHY???
Apr 02, 2014
 Wow, just read all the comments
by: Denise

First, I am just Denise, not anonymous. Just me. Desperate me! I can't believe what all I just read. I stumbled, yes stumbled here. Had NO IDEA it was for particular progesterone users only. Soooooo sorry! Grab a gun and shoot me now. Geesh! So rude! I know for me, on high levels of compounded progesterone cream it made me a bitch. Something I am typically not. Scary! Maybe you are all on too much because let me tell you, I have never seen so much bitchiness and meanness before. How disheartening when I was at an all time low and grasping for anyone to tell me I'm doing something thing wrong and that you might have a simple solution, that yes, this well versed lady may have overlooked. My children need me. My husband needs me and THIS is the backlash I get for accidentally stepping into the wrong forum?? Shame on you all!
Apr 02, 2014
 Wow, just read all the comments
by: Joy

Hi Denise

I am sorry you are having such a hard time. I think what people are trying to say is, if progesterone is not used correctly it will not work. The correct amount of progesterone concentration needs to be used otherwise it creates all sorts of adverse symptoms. Please read How to use Progesterone Cream. Please make sure that you understand all about Estrogen Dominance.

There are times when progesterone can't work its wonders on its own, it needs the help of nutrition and amino acids, diet always plays a huge part too. I take it your vitamin D level is in ng/mL units, if it is 60 you are deficient, the ideal level should be between 70 – 100ng/mL, my level is 130ng/mL at my last test. If it is in nmol/L then you are terribly deficient. At 42 you are in Peri-Menopause which is a difficult time for most women.

Let me know if I can help you further.
Apr 02, 2014
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Hello Denise!
It's so much more than progesterone. Perhaps start over on the site...dismiss all the posts on your comment (remember we are all going through some hormonal imbalance and that's why we are on this site...nobody has said progesterone is going to take you back to the days of pure bliss. It's to help you weather through the symptoms. So, yes, you came over as professing alot about progesterone and it just struck a nerve in some of us.) and read what is so valuable within the website itself. You are going through nothing different than hundreds of other women are going through or have went through. There is no sex life, there is heavy bleeding, no bleeding, bleeding for weeks on end, headaches, bloating, sweats, heart palpitations, anger, anxiety, etc... you are going through a rough time and only you can find the solution that is going to work for your body. A 1,000 mg a day for me is what gets me through...any less I'm in trouble and have a hard time coping with the symptoms....that dosage may be too high or not high enough for you. Perhaps all the levels you have listed you think are good for your body, but in fact, are not good and should be higher or lower. Remember you are changing, as will those level requirements. But you still have not found where you need to be or you wouldn't be lashing out six months after your original post. Keep searching Denise, your remedy is out there, you just haven't found it yet. May you find that peace. God Bless! RJ
Apr 03, 2014
 RJ and Joy
by: Denise

Thank you for responding. First, I want to say that I wasn't lashing out, 6 months later. I was defending myself from being called a troll, a heckler, not knowledgeable, and posting as another. I actually forgot all about this post until I searched the net for "why can't I tolerate progesterone" and my own posted popped up on google lol. Anyway, I think you ladies made harsh judgements and were on the attack before asking me a few questions.

Yes, I'm in full blown peri. My fear is impending menopause. With hashi's, it is not uncommon to go into early meno. Plus, I was a late bloomer, another factor.

I think I have slightly different issues than others. I probably never started out estrogen dominant, but probably normal estrogen levels. Maybe even a tad lower. Not sure, but I was a thin, small chested girl until birth control pills (yes, I know, horrid stuff). The birth control cleared up my skin, back in the day and I went from a large A cup to a D on bcp's. So estrogen, even though it was the bad stuff, helped my skin. That's why, if taking progesterone is waking up sleepy estrogen receptors, why the awful zits. I mean, overnight my whole face, neck, scalp just broke out. Yuck! In addition, even after dumping bcp's, I had very regular, relatively cramps-less periods and virtually no PMS symptoms for years (yes, I was very lucky). When everything went to pot, it was after my first baby, and even more so after the second. That's went the dominos started to fall one by one. At 34, my progesterone was 2 . Now it's .3. Yikes! Not good. I KNOW I need to get that level up, but how on earth do I do it it without looking like a pizza face. It's so awful to say, but I guess I'm vain and have to present myself to potential clients, and it's hard when you have a face of zits. I'm soooo scared to re-try progesterone again for that reason alone. On top of it, progesterone makes me irritable, snappy, water weight, sleepy, weepy and totally emotionally erratic. My estrogen is not elevated. In fact, it's below normal, yet I do understand I can still be estrogen dominant with an estrogen level of 35 and a progesterone level of .3. I just don't know what to do. It's a mess.

P.s. I have read numerous articles that elevated vitamin D, beyond 70 is not good as it can increase blood calcium. Not a good thing to have as it can cause a whole slew of side effects. Do you all get your blood calcium checked to make sure? Should always be in the 9 range. I don't want anymore issues than I already have lol. Good golly!
Apr 08, 2014
 Find a BHRT Doctor
by: Suzanna - Prosper, TX

Denise,
I've read your recent post regarding your hormone issues. If I may make a suggestion - find a TRUE BHRT (Bio-identical Hormone Replacement Therapy) Doctor. I found my doctor, Dr. Spurlock of Renewed Vitality here in Dallas, TX. through a website Suzanna Sommers is involved with -- Forever Health. Suzanne's most recent book, "I'm Too Young For This" is an excellent book on Perimenopause and the book by Dr. Sandra Cabot, "Hormone Replacement The Real Truth" is also a great book.

If you don't already, you need to understand that our hormones change daily and sometimes hourly. You may have started your progesterone "trial" 10 years ago; however, a lot has changed in your body and environment as well as the products that are available now are completely different then they were 10 years ago. I believe you also mentioned taking progesterone orally -- I did the same thing at one point, I learned real quick it did nothing for me other than made me feel really groggy. Wray discuss this in great detail.

I'm not going to go too far into my story. In 2010, I got off the BCP (after being on it off and on for 20 years) and began using Natpro -- I found it was a Godsend for me. I thank Wray for her amazing research and passion for what she does. If it wasn't for her I wouldn't have understood what was happening to me and my hormones. I tried discussing progesterone with my OBGYN -- who at the time was a well known doctor in Chapel Hill, NC -- she dismissed my questions and told me to get back on the BCP. It was then I began realizing how truly uneducated doctors are about our hormones. In 2011 after relocating to TX, I started using bio-identical compounded progesterone cream because I was at a point were I needed 200 MG per day. Even though it was suggested by an OBGYN I try this method, she had no idea what our hormones do, much less how to test them. Since then I've been to at least 3 other doctors who claim to specialize in BHRT; however, every time I would see them, I noticed they wouldn't request the correct hormones to be tested -- one of them didn't test my progesterone and I was using bio-identical progesterone! Thankfully, in all my research I found the Forever Health website and am now going to an amazing BHRT Doctor.

I will end my post with something my doctor said about women's hormones. Unless a doctor truly specializes in BHRT, they are taught to believe all women's hormones are alike; however, taking that approach is like assuming all women wear the same shoe size -- can a woman who wears a size 10, wear a size 6 and vice versa? Common sense tells us, everyone is different and will need different hormones replaced and at different levels.

I hope my posting helps.

Good luck with your journey. Whatever you do, do not give up!!!
Apr 09, 2014
 Suzanna
by: Anonymous

Thanks Suzanna. Hey, we almost moved to Dallas. We just recently went to Frisco to check out homes. We have decided to likely stay here in Houston.

Well, I actually did see two wellness and hormone specialists. One trained under dr. Hotze and cost me a small fortune, as insurance did not cover her. Of you read further down, you might have caught it: however, I totally understand why you would t want to read and weed through all that lol. Yikes.

I'm just at my wits end. I'm really, really hesitant to try P again after all the horrible side effects it does to me. It is quite possible I need to start out at an even higher level that my highest, but I am so afraid of the horrible symptoms and the face filled with pustules, cycts and tender zits. Right now, 6 months after my last try, my face is finally free of zits again. Pretty, clear skin. If I showed you the pics, you'd be shocked. It gave me moderate acne. Scary! Thanks again.
Aug 05, 2014
 Progesterone fear
by: Christina

Hi . First just allow me to congratulate Wray on her VERY informative site.
I say that because some of the info here is nowhere else.
I'm one of those unfortunate women NOT having a great time on my prescribed by BHRT doc cream of 65mg Progest and 1.5mg BI-est.
Had been taking it as directed for about 2-3 weeks- then all hell broke loose.
Really foggy /tired / irritable / fatter/ VERY suicidal/ my back develped a rash/itchy pimple like - never had anything like it before.
Strange thing though- there were brief moments where in spite of the tempest, a SMILE would be breaking over my face out of nowhere!!
I can completely understand the estrogen dominance theory (becos) I definitely have been a bad PMS person all my life.
I had previously taken Progesterone I'd bought off internet once a few years back, experienced a bad few weeks and then things got better- only to worsen again after 3 months.
Please help me understand Wray, was that because I then needed to take more???
I'm SO upset/suicidal and at my wits end.
I'm scared it will just be a waste of time going back to see the other doc.
Does your cream deliver 1000mg per pump or am I getting that wrong?
Why are there a lot of other women saying they DID up their dose to no avail?
I'm so scared to go up. I wish there were women testifying to that route ACTUALLY working for them
Anyway, a heartfelt thanx to all the sharers here-it makes the world of difference.
Love to ALL.
Aug 05, 2014
 Progesterone fear
by: Joy

Hi Christina

No women needs to take extra estrogen as there are over 100 estrogen mimics in our environment as it is. You are also not using enough progesterone. Nothing less than 100mg is needed per day, but depending on symptoms more is often needed to overcome adverse symptoms. The correct progesterone concentration is needed, each Natpro tube contains 60 grams (2 oz) of cream and 2000mg of progesterone. You say you had previously taken progesterone which indicates to me that this was in pill form. Any form of oral progesterone is not the best delivery method as 96% gets destroyed by the gut and liver - see here.

Progesterone therapy is not an overnight fix, it can take anything from 2-6 months before positive signs are felt and often the amount of cream used needs to be increased until positive signs are felts. Quite often, those using progesterone, either do not use enough or have not given it enough time. Please read How to use Progesterone Cream Vitamin D is also very important as a deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone.

If you read other comments on Wray's website, you will find out just how progesterone has helped them. The bottom line is, if progesterone is not used correctly it will not work.

Hope this helps you.
Aug 08, 2014
 One more thing
by: cristina

Thank you Joy.

The one thing I don't understand however hard I try to research it - is the idea that you can have LOW (zero for me), estradiol from a blood test (and of course zero progesterone) - but THEN be estrogen dominant because of all the rotten mimicking chemicals!
Also the idea of using phytoestrogens in this scenario is UNCLEAR.
One minute I hear they help by knocking the bad guys off the receptor site / the next minute I read they aren't good.
In my own experience, I'm pretty sure when I started using red clover, the weight gain crept up and I just didnt want to keep taking it!!!
ALSO how in the heck can my BHRT medical doctor prescribe me BIO_EST ????
I know what you're saying, because before I chose her I found out quite a few others in the area DID NOT prescribe estrogen with the progesterone cream.
How on earth can there be such a disparity amongst opinion? What the hell is wrong with everyone?
I feel like I ought to make a documentary about this.
And lastly, because I'm in such a rotten mood, I'm going to have a poke at Suzanne Somers' overblown plastic surgery face and her over-the top Hollywood babe look she keeps peddling.
It's sickening. Why trout pout your lips to that degree?
There. I feel better. It's just sickening that so many women are truly suffering and then to watch those who are just cashing in on it all.
Aug 09, 2014
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Cristine, you're funny. If you watch very closely on the QVC network...they never, ever do a close up on her LOL. I won't knock her...she has opened the door to the natural form of hormones...people tend to get on the bandwagon when a "star" is doing it...dumb....but it's still all about the big dollar. Remember how quietly she had her breast cancer taken care of. They are accustom to a certain life style and it entails glamour and plenty of cash and no matter how they make it the bottom line is plenty of Mr. Franklin. Hang in there, you will figure it all out...it's just going to take lots of time. As Joy said it's not going to happen overnight....almost three years here and I continually tweak the dosage. But I take no estrogen. We are all subjected to too much of it....thus the high incidences of cancer amongst women as well as men. Forty years ago you never heard of breast cancer in men. Keep working on it, you will find the correct combination. God Bless! RJ
Aug 09, 2014
 Cristina...I'm in the same boat
by: Denise

Ok, I wanted to update my status. After getting desperate and trying the bio p capsules (prescribed by my wellness doc) because the cream and I don't do well either, I decided to really research. Like you Cristina, I have very low estrogen. Low in luteal phase and low in follicular/ovulation. It was 9.6 on day 12 (close to ovulation and the range is 85-477). Hmmmm! Waaaay low. Anyway, you can still be estrogen dominant while low E. It just simply means that your progesterone level is still not enough to oppose the little E you have left. Ok, so as mentioned. I have tried bio P off and on for 8 years without much success. One stint was about 7 months and the acne never cleared and my raging and irritability never dissipated. SOME women are just ultra sensitive. I decided to see if there was something I'm missing. Another alternative, anything. Then, I stumbled on mucosal delivery (sublingual, vaginal, or rectal- definitely not going the last route lol). In fact, I have read several articles describing these as the BEST methods over all others. With creams, over time, your fat cells can get over saturated. With mucosal, you skip the liver (bad with capsules as you can see from my first post - again, I was willing to TRY it as I was desperate, even though it was insinuated that I was a moron for trying it. At least I can vouch from first hand experience that you don't want to do that route lol). So after finding this very compelling info, I set out on a quest to find the perfect micronized progesterone in a pure oil base (oil base is very important). The first one I found was progestelle. Good, but you have to put a lot in your mouth as it is not as concentrated. Initially I tried this vaginally, but um....talk about a mess. Then, I discovered bezwecken progesterone drops 4x (newer concentrated version from the last). One drop equals 4mg of highly absorbable progesterone. Since drops are a little more concentrated than cream, you don't need as many mgs. These drops have been a lifesaver for me. The only side effects I have gotten are a few acne spots rather than a whole face full. So, I have continued on this path (the mucosal delivery system) since April: however, even though I feel that I'm getting the progesterone now, it has not solved the crashing fatigue, headaches, dry skin, dry vaginal secretions, thinning hair near my temples/bangs, insomnia, zero libido, poor orgasmic ability. Day after day (it's been a year now), I'm still barely getting out of bed. The fatigue has literally taken over my life. Then in July the hot flashes came every 20 minutes, 24/7. Awful. No sleep and looking like a Mack truck ran over me. Something was missing. My gut was telling me that I'm missing one more important key (in addition to my bio P, bio testosterone dollup, and slew of important supplements). I'm missing estrogen. So back to researching. I don't want a lot, just enough to get me out of this bed and back into the real world. I certainly don't want synthetic, but I need something. I tried the black cohosh (ugh, headaches galore so I stopped after two weeks). It didn't touch the hot flashes, although I know for some, two weeks isn't enough. I then did a lot of research on bio estriol, you know, the pregnancy estrogen that is breast protective. I was enthralled. This stuff is quite amazing and nothing like estrone or estradiol. And, it will take up the estrogen receptor spots too. Hmmmm! Maybe I'm onto something. So I decided to read every single review on "smokey mountain" estriol on amazon (of course the paraben-free version would be the one to use). The reviews were encouraging. I decided in the end to use a lower dosed estriol by life flo. It's .75 mgs per pump. Well, let me tell you, one day and my hot flashes were slowing down. It's been a week and a half and they are gone. I have slept for the past four nights better than I have slept in MONTHS. The third day of taking it, I joined my husband and children and road my bike 12 miles (that's not a lot, but that would have been cake for me 2-3 years ago before this peri crap hit me REALLY hard). I believe I am now in the last transition of peri. All my hormones are low now. I could post my saliva tests over 5 years and you can clearly see the rapid decline. I have more energy. It's not perfect, but I'm not about to over do it on the estriol. I need to get some more lab work, but I now have hope, and I also have a smile on my face and I feel so much happier. So, I will have to disagree with the masses (and very stringent views and protocols) on this website and go with my gut, because we are no a one-fits-all woman. I know this to be true about thyroid dosing and variabilities as well, so why would it be any different for peri women and hormone imbalance? I will post a link to a great article on estriol and it's wonderful benefits. It is actually the choice HRT for Europeans and the Japanese. There are studies at the end of the article for you to review yourself and to make your own informed decision. Hope my story (which sounds similar to yours) will help you! Good luck!
Aug 09, 2014
 The benefits of bioidentical estriol
by: Denise

http://www.drlewisclarke.com/Truth_About_Estriol.php
Aug 10, 2014
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Anonymous

What I find interesting to most of these studies that this doctors website is speaking of is that they refer back to taking natural progesterone as well. Some studies even suggested that estriol does increase the risk of cancer. Thus far I have been unable to find any such studies that indicate natural progesterone as a cancer causer. An interesting summary of estriol:

"Estriol is a metabolic waste product of estradiol metabolism that can still have some effects upon a limited number of estrogen receptors. It is formed in the liver and is 8% as potent as estradiol and 14% as potent as estrone. Once estriol is bound to an estrogen receptor, it blocks the stronger estradiol from acting there. Thus it is considered to have both estrogenic and antiestrogenic actions. There is also some evidence that, because it is so weak and blocks the stronger forms, estriol can be considered to have "anti-cancer" action. To take it in quantities adequate to have effects comparable to estradiol (that is, to occupy as many receptors as a needs-meeting level of estradiol), however, the risk rises to the same level with estriol as with estradiol. A particular breakdown product of estriol, 16-hydroxyestrone, is elevated in women receiving oral estriol and is associated with an increased risk of breast and cervical cancers. Estriol has also been implicated as a source of interference in lab tests for estradiol, leading to "clinically significant" testing errors. It is believed to have special efficacy for genitourinary tissues and skin generally, but that is poorly studied and results of existing research are not conclusive."

"And if we're putting in estriol, we're not providing for those estradiol needs, directly or indirectly. Estriol is a breakdown product, estrogen on its way out of the body. Estriol can still carry out a few actions, remember, so it does make the estradiol we make seem to go a little further. But it's not in itself a convertable contributor to estradiol, and for women who can't make enough estradiol to meet their needs for that hormone form, estriol is not going to be an effective HRT in itself. It's a dilutant, not a participant. And we'll be making it for ourselves anyway, from however much estradiol we eventually metabolize into that breakdown product."

Yes, I understand the need for those women who are very low in estrogen. But from reading various articles it seems and I am not a doctor, but if you are low in estrogen and you find the need to absolutely take estrogen in any form it should be estrodial or estrone not the waste product of them in the form of estriol. Just my thoughts. I do not have a lack of estrogen...I have way too much so I will not be taking any of it.
Aug 11, 2014
 Estriol
by: Denise

In response to your post on estriol :). I noted that the information you posted seems to refer to an oral estriol administration. That is a totally different ball of wax (just as the bio P capsules were for me - hell, to say the least). I'm doing only 1.5 mg transdermal (split into two doses: morning and night). I decided to play with it a bit and only do one dose. Nope. No good. Turned back into a couch potato for the day. This tells me that estriol is not accumulating , at least in the short time that I have taken it. Going back to two doses and I slept like a baby the last two nights in a row. This IS amazing for me. I have felt like complete and utter poop for over a year. My interior design business is gone. I've turned all my clients over to design friends. I'm only 42 with a just turned 12 year old and 13 year old and 40 year old husband. I need my life back. Progesterone is a must, I don't disagree. I wish I had researched more and had taken my low progesterone more seriously years ago. I figured that I could just eliminate xenoestrogens, fluoride, eat organic, use all natural products and cleaners and not have to "try" to make progesterone work for me. The sublingual P in oil has been a lifesaver for me. I still break out some (very annoying side effect) but nothing like the creams and certainly the compounded capsules. Anyway, I would like to note that I do NOT want more estrone. That is not an estrogen I want elevated. For now, I'm very, very happy with the bio estriol. I use a little on my face and put some on my lips every day. The pink is starting to return to them and they actually look more plumped. Bonus!
Aug 11, 2014
 P.S. Do we read the same link I posted?
by: Denise

I didn't notice any reference to progesterone in the link I provided. It was strictly the benefits of estriol in the studies. Were you looking at a different set of studies? Again, I am not disagreeing that progesterone is a necessary piece of BHRT. For some, it is the only thing they need. Women with extra weight seem to keep enough estrogen stored in fat cells to probably get them through this stage in life and beyond, perhaps? In the end, you cannot refute that we are all different, with different needs. That's really my point. Have a great day :).
Aug 11, 2014
 One more thing...
by: Denise

I have looked and can only find a "blog" site from some random person quoting that estriol is a waste by-product of estradiol? Any other places I have found this mentioned, directly quote the person on the blog? From what I understand estriol is produced by the ovaries and adrenals. Anyway, I found another great article: www.naturodoc.com/library/hormones/estrogen_replace.htm

I will admit that I was once a "bio progesterone" only thinker. Although I have had my own battles with taking it, I have touted it to all my friends and even bought for my 60-something mother. It wasn't until my estrogen dropped so low and my life became unmanageable that I had to be a little more open to the fact that perhaps I needed something else. I know I have not been on bio progesterone consistently over the past 8+ years! And, some may contest that I haven't given progesterone the year it may take to create balance or convert into enough estrogen/testosterone, but it may never and I have to function now. I am choosing the safest option with the lowest dosage for well being. Perhaps over time I can wean off it entirely and stick with progesterone only. Who knows. Right now, I feel so much better and happier. Everything looks a little brighter. My spark is back. I'll keep you all posted in the future :).
Sep 08, 2014
 WOW
by: Chloe

I would never even dream of seeing this on a products site, and today, earlier today, I thought of changing my brand to Natpro. I think the original poster has a right to be fed up, its not an easy journey, and it is certainly a personal and unique one. And if somebody doesn't question the large amounts suggested by the company you would have to be blind, if not to ask yourself are they capitalizing on this? The answer is unique as well, if you use the cream and have had results at those dosages. And where are the people who eventually got down to normal physiologic doses?? Am I suffering estrogen wake up crisis, or now am I suffering progesterone dominance?! Harmony and homeostasis can not be found when dominance is in the picture. 100, 200 ok but 600 and up? I'm running out of body surface area, even if I can apply it anywhere at all? Financially those amounts are noticeable, its a couple hundred a month. I really dislike the way she was treated, and then attacked, with memorized directions and three apparently close friends. There is a chance someone might have to add a little phytoestrogen or estriol, especially if they are thin or underweight. Or if it works, then so be it, good! The greatest gift we can give to the suffering is listening and kind, hopeful words. I would rather wait 2-3 days for a response that was well thought out than what she had to read. I commend her for returning with her status. I don't want to find myself a couple months down the road figuring out how to wean myself down from 400 mg of progesterone cream. No, thanks. I'm not sustaining another life at the moment.
I would love to end my rant with "God Bless You" but even that doesn't make it righteous. Wordy, insults ending with God Bless you, come on, HE deserves better than that for His testimony.
Sep 09, 2014
 WOW
by: Wray

Hi Chloe Denise did have a rough time using progesterone, it's often the case. She seemed to be using very low amounts too, which is not a good thing. You say you would never dream of seeing this on a products site, well we post all comments good or bad. Denise wasn't using Natpro either, it seems the other nay sayers weren't either. I have spent the past 17 years answering queries via talks or letter (before the internet), then email or via our website. Over 50% of the answers I give have been to people who do not use Natpro, I don't discriminate. So I've replied to people who have been prescribed it by their doctors or bought it over the counter or via the internet. I do it not for profit, if this was the case I would only reply to Natpro users. Unfortunately this has taken it's toll and I became burnt out last year and asked Joy to take over, she's now burnt out. Take care Wray
Sep 09, 2014
 Thank you Chloe!
by: Denise

Thank you for your support Chloe! It means a lot when you feel so alone in this hormonal battle. I want to add that I had a follow up vaginal ultrasound as the first revealed a thickened uterine lining of 11mm and the gyn wanted to do a uterine biopsy: however, my gut screamed no way. They did this US on day 27 of my cycle. Hello? 11mm during late luteal phase is normal. I then ended up skipping my period in July and couldn't do the follow up until august when my period came back. I purposefully scheduled the ultrasound on day 8. Guess what? With being on estriol for a month, and a skipped period in July, my uterine lining was .3!!! Yes, you read that right. Basically no uterine lining whatsoever. This tells me my low estrogen isn't building up the lining anymore (or at least consistently) and neither is the added estriol. My fsh in July was 51, so I'm clearly headed to menopauses's door sooner than later. Again, The estriol did NOT cause a uterine lining build up. Proof is in the pudding. I have to go back for a repeat ultrasound again in approx. 4 weeks, so I will update again for those of you out there that are terrified of estrogen therapy. I can assure you that estriol is NOT the same as estradiol or estrone and it does not have the same proliferative effects. This is good news for the women with low or even low normal estradiol levels that are having low E symptoms. I'm still working on my low P. I am going to go to my local compounding pharmacy, as I just discovered that they also do ZRT saliva testing and prescribing. I'm going to ask for a progesterone suppository. Hopefully I will find results with this method. Unfortunately, I think I will eventually need a compounded estriol/estradiol cream down the road as my estradiol is still dropping and was now 25 on my last blood draw (luteal phase). Estriol has given me hope, but I am unsure if I need to increase beyond the 1.5mg or add some estradiol once my P is at a good level. Thanks for reading :).
Sep 09, 2014
 Nearly giving up
by: Anonymous

Denise, I'm glad you are feeling better.
You say you've felt like crap for the last year - it's been two years for me. I feel like killing myself simply because the symptoms are overwhelming.
I never sleep.
I don't understand- my BHRT doctor formulated cream had 1.5 mg of Biest and 65mg of Prog.
Maybe I should just try taking Biest on its own...
I don't know.
I have no faith.
I am about to try chaste tree but it still hasn't arrived.
Please keep us posted.Really. I need to hear about your success.
Sep 10, 2014
 WOW
by: Wray

Hi Chloe Denise did have a rough time using progesterone, it's often the case. She seemed to be using very low amounts too, which is not a good thing. You say you would never dream of seeing this on a products site, well we post all comments good or bad. Denise wasn't using Natpro either, not it seems were all the other nay sayers. I have spent the past 17 years answering queries via talks or letter (before the internet), then email or via our website. Over 50% of the answers I give have been to people who do not use Natpro, I don't discriminate. if this were the case I would only reply to Natpro users. So I've replied to people who have been prescribed it by their doctors or bought it over the counter or via the internet. I obviously do this to earn a living, but not to make a fortune out of others ill health. Unfortunately the 17 years has taken it's toll and I became burnt out last year and asked Joy to take over, she's now burnt out. Take care Wray
Sep 10, 2014
 Anonymous
by: Denise

Dear anonymous,
I'm so sorry Hun, I KNOW what you are going through. I really do. It's been a good two years when poop really hit the fan. I have struggled with fatigue for years before that, but I just assumed it was left over hashimotos/autoimmune disease symptoms. This crashing fatigue, that really kicked in full force last summer, is something from out of this world. My life as I knew it is no more. The lack of sleep will compound how you feel by 10. I think that is where you will need to focus. I don't know your lab numbers, your thyroid status (although I suspect that if your doc is well versed with hormones, they are likely well versed in what optimal thyroid levels should be). I'm assuming you have looked at b12, ferritin levels, vitamin d etc...? One more thing I discovered that may play the biggest role in my progesterone nightmare is that I have the mthfr 677 gene defect. It can really do a doozy on your liver's detoxification processes. Everything gets clogged up. I'm still figuring this one put as it is a new lab diagnosis. Also, has your doc done a good cortisol x4 saliva panel on you. I suspect that my old adrenal fatigue from years ago might be coming back. This too, if not balanced, affects all your hormones. My numbers are slightly below optimal at each point of the day. Some of us really have an incredibly difficult time during the perimenopause. Trust me, I'm one. I wish I could send you my email privately? Is there a way to do that? If you are on Facebook, come join the perimenopause hell fb page. I'm there and so are so many other women just like us. There, I can give you a virtual hug and you can meet other lovely ladies going through this, just as badly as we are, and not feel alone. I don't know your name, but I hope to see you there :). You'll know who I am when you get there :). As for Wray, thanks for posting. I hope you try to recharge your battery and take care of yourself for a bit. I know how overwhelming a help board can get. The very same thing happened to me on my thyroid help board that I started back in 2005. So many scared, frightened, unhappy thyroid patients and so little time and energy to try to help them all. It started to take a toll on me as I just couldn't respond to every question or help everyone. I did not have any products attached to my board, but I understand that even if you do, many, like myself stumble here, not on your product and you have tried to help. Maybe my post was the one that broke the camel's back lol. Time to heal yourself and your spirit. Or, like I did, let other moderators take over :). Good luck!
Sep 10, 2014
 I forgot
by: Anonymous

Please note the post above by "Anonymous" is from Christina ! Sorry
Sep 10, 2014
 Denise
by: Chloe

I have read so much on estriol since you mentioned it. It's very intriguing, they say "its weakness is its strength" that makes sense. Also Dr J Lee, stated if progesterone therapy along with lifestyle changes are not doing enough, adding 2-5 mg of estriol may solve the problem. If you Google it you will find it. So you are onto something. I read someone using it vaginally every other day, has had great benefits, along with progesterone cream. Best wishes to you!

Dear Anonymous,
Never give up, it is darkest before the dawn. Keep reading and asking for help. When you do come through this, you must pass on to others what helped you. Remain in prayer and keep your eyes and heart open. Feed your spirit until the right regimen comes along.

Wray, I can imagine how burnt out you are, answering these questions are a heavy load on a daily basis. However, I really felt the need to speak up. God's speed.
Sep 11, 2014
 Anonymous
by: Wray

Hi Denise Bless you for the kind words, at least you know where I'm coming from. If you have a thyroid website, please won't you give the link here. There are as you say too many women out there needing help, the thyroid is often behind our symptoms and not progesterone. Although both are so similar it's a question of trail and error. Take care Wray
Sep 11, 2014
 Denise and Dx of MTHFR
by: Chloe

I was also diagnosed with MTHFR, sometimes I feel like I'm from the land if misfit toys. It could be worse though, much, so no complaints. The doc started me on Deplin, high dose fish-oil and high doses of N-Acetly Cysteine. The latter helps with pcos as well. The Deplin made a significant improvement. Funny you mentioned it, because I was going to ask if you have been tested. When all else is failing, like vitamin d, progesterone therapy and all advised here, then I would look into getting tested for MTHFR. It appears to be trendy lately, but not metabolizing folic acid, is a big deal. We also can't get rid of toxins like others. Folic acid is vital for our neurotransmitters. It's like the game whack a mole, until we can finally put the pieces together. Why obstetric doctors aren't testing for this at the beginning of pregnancy or fertility issues is beyond me.
Sep 11, 2014
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Anonymous

Welcome back Wray! Cause I know you are on a thyroid mission right now :)
See..... Stop the Thyroid Madness.
Sep 11, 2014
 THANK YOU LADIES!!
by: Christina

Thank you Denise and Chloe (I was the "anonymous" you replied to recently.
Denise, you've really been through hell and what's more you've tried EVERYTHING!
That's what people fail to understand- it's the feeling of having done so much - what havent we tried?
I'm so glad to hear the BIEST is working for you- but please - why do you think the dose my BHRT doc gave me - 65mg Progesterone and 1.5 Bi est caused all hell to break loose?
Anyway , it's most gratifying to hear your success because I was actually hatching a similar plan in my mind. I thought I'd just wait until all symptoms completely died down and then try estriol on its own.
But I'm still scared because I did try the Smoky mountain cream (a few years back) ONCE for just one day and I'm fairly certain it caused almost instant depression and irritability, leading to me never wanting to touch it again! But I really feel similar to you so maybe I should try again.
Your thoughts on the liver thing - I think are very intelligent.
So do u think the sublingual P worked better BECAUSE of slight liver congestion?
And please, how did you know (what were the signs) that told you the sub P was working?
Bless you and thank you, Christina
Sep 12, 2014
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks for the welcome! And thanks for the website, it's one I know well and often give to people. But it's always good to give it again. The symptoms of low thyroid function and low progesterone are so similar, and often go hand in hand, it is of great importance to check both. Unfortunately stressed adrenals are often behind the symptoms, which just makes it all the more complicated to find out which, if not all are involved! Take care Wray
Sep 12, 2014
 Denise and Dx of MTHFR
by: Wray

Hi Chloe This is so interesting, some say as many as 60% of people have a problem with the MTHFR gene. I missed Denise saying she had it too. It's well worth getting tested for it. Methylation is such a basic function, and one of the liver's detoxifying routes and if it's impaired, homocysteine increases. Normally homocysteine is converted into methionine, an essential amino acid and therefore vital to life. But homocysteine itself is a toxin. It's encouraging your doctor not only tested for it, but actually gave you natural substances to help. Ironically there are no drugs which can do that. For those wanting to know more about it, please see these sites MTHFR, MTHFR.Net and this paper on the Molecular Biology of Methylenetetrahydrofolate Reductase (MTHFR). Take care Wray
Sep 12, 2014
 60%!
by: Chloe

At that rate, yes, well worth being tested. I'm glad it's being mentioned here. If your hormones, and then methylation process are out of whack, it can be a real mess and over time quite dangerous. As you mentioned high homocysteine, and many of us are on Metformin, and that raises it even more. Dr. Erlich is great as well. As I said it was a huge puzzle for me, as for Denise, it had to be as well. A great direction to turn in when all else has failed.
Sep 26, 2014
 Denise please contact me!
by: Christina

Dear Denise,
Could you please email me?
c.uhana@gmail.com
I'm really losing it here.
Need to hear from someone. Help!
Dec 19, 2014
 Progesterone Allergy
by: Anonymous

I have not read all these comments, but many women like me can't tolerate progesterone. I told my gyn I couldn't stand it because even 50 mg had always made me break out and feel depressed and anxious, but he insisted I had to take a 200 mg dose every day for menopausal HRT if I was going to use estrogen. I got worse and worse the week I took it. Finally my husband found me on the floor of the bathroom with a barely perceptible pulse and called an ambulance. My doctor finally believed me!

I have done some research and found that some women have an autoimmune reaction to their own progesterone and would therefore not be able to tolerate ANY bioidentical progesterone. I always tolerated the fake progestins in birth control just fine, but not the bioidentical progesterone creams. This is real science----just google "progesterone allergy". They claim it is rare, but I don't think so.

So if a woman tells you she can't tolerate progesterone, believe her. She knows her own body. It can be dangerous for some.
Dec 30, 2014
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Anonymous

Your remark begs the question that if you cannot tolerate "natural progesterone", why are you on a site that promotes it? Do you have any children? Our bodies make gobs of "natural progesterone" during pregnancy. Taking estrogen HRT is what's dangerous...not "natural progesterone". Reading through the site you will find the protocol you followed may have been the result of your mishap and not "natural progesterone".
Apr 03, 2015
 Misinformation spit testing
by: Anonymous

I just heard a whole presentation done by top doc with National Menopause society talk on worthlessness of spit testing and caution with bioidenticals. I have exactly the same reaction as OP to progesterone in any way shape or form and last dose of cream I almost checked myself into the hospital for panic attacks!! I will give you my feedback as the ONLY thing that has helped me through this and that is going to a reputable Ob/Gyn that does testosterone pellets. This helps with my declining estrogen levels. Let me tell you as a woman who has had chronic migraines and insomnia for the past 10 years and being told by quacks I am "estrogen dominant" has really severely affected my quality of life by being put on OCP with progesterone and ALL forms of bioidentical progesterone. That's my story and I hope all the women that have had my similar experience to progesterone feel better soon.
Jun 08, 2015
 progesterone intolerant
by: Anonymous

I have pmdd which also means I'm progesterone intolerant.....sends me crazy. Waiting for hysterectomy as it's the only cure.
Jun 09, 2015
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: Anonymous

Our bodies make over 400mg a day of progesterone in the later stages of a pregnancy. Testosterone will only produce more estrogen and it's the estrogen that causes cancers in women and men. And a hysterectomy will not cure any hormonal imbalances that you may be having it is going to just make your situation worse. Low dosages of progesterone and lack of other vital supplements cause everyone to point a finger at progesterone being the cause of all their troubles and it's not, it's lack of not using it in the right dosages along with other supplements. Research more thoroughly and you will find that what the traditional doctors recommend to we women (testosterone/hysterectomies) are just patchwork and won't do a thing for the body going into cessation of reproducing.
Jul 20, 2015
 Hmmmm
by: Denise

I find it very interesting that many of the nasty posts to me were edited to look "nice". A shame because now it just makes me look coo coo, but whatever. I wanted to update my original post. After a very loooong haul on trying to get my progesterone up without causing so many horrible side effects, I have finally discovered WHY for 10 years I had issues,and it has nothing to do with how high or low my dose has been. I am a converter. I convert to testosterone and then it aromatizes into estradiol and estrone. It has been almost 16 months since I have been back on bio P. It took an 8 month blood draw to discover the issue. I also did blood work 2 months after starting bio P and my estradiol was tanked (25, where approx. 90 is optimal in the luteal phase along with a nice high progesterone level, mine was .3). At 8 months in (doing 30- 40mg of bio P sublingually with a reputable OTC progesterone in organic oil) my free testosterone rose from .2 to 3.2 (whooooah) and my estradiol rose to 96 (actually felt better in many ways and non existent orgasms were slowly making a come back): however, progesterone levels in the luteal phase were still lagging behind (5.5 up from .3 July 2014). Then this past march 2015, levels went even higher as I increased my bio P dose. Now they were 125 luteal, plus estrone was too high and testosterone 3.2 still (depending on the lab, that number is too high or still within range). This explains the zits, the rage, the bloating. I'm sensitive to testosterone (some women are even if they are normal or low normal) and I am even MORE estrogen dominant than when I started. I have added DIM, stinging nettles and inositol to slow the testosterone conversion and the aromatase action. THIS is starting to work. I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, four months in with the added supplements. I am also using NAC for liver detox (some type of liver detox is crucial for some of us, especially those with methylation gene issues and sluggish liver action). The moral to my sharing is that, ladies, we are ALL different. No one woman is the same, especially if you have other issues hiding behind the scenes. I have hashi's, and some other issues going on that have made finding hormonal balance trickier. There are women out there who cannot tolerate huge doses of bio P due to it converting into cortisol (can be dangerous and high cortisol can wreak havoc on sleep, weight, water retention etc...). I no longer take estriol. It did help in the beginning when my E was low, but clearly I don't need it currently. I will bring it back in when I am through menopause. I did finally switch over to an all organic cream. I'm currently on 50mg (split), plus my other supplements to slow conversion. I have done all of this on my own, with a couple of visits to my old doctor's PA for labwork, but I run those on my own as well (walkinlab.com is a good one or LEF). I have also dropped some extra weight that I wasn't even aware that I had. My interest in design is coming back and sleep has improved 50%. I am in full blown perimenopause, so I'm not expecting to feel like I did at 15. I just want a life again. P.s. When I was pregnant, I did not have perfectly clear skin as one mentioned and my libido went completely bonkers.....testosterone from the high progesterone levels. I should have known all along that bio P raises my T. When I was younger and trying to get on bio P, my levels weren't low, so it made my face a complete and utter mess because it made my already "normal" T levels above the range (looking back at old labwork, it proves it even back then). Everything makes sense now! Hope this helps even one lady out there!!!!! Tip: check your levels every couple of months after starting bio P to see exactly what it is doing.
Sep 28, 2015
 almost killed me
by: leslie

My obgyn gave it to me for heavy periods. I took 5mg day for 20 days . Gained 11lbs, acne, extreme irritability, menstrual cramps. I stopped taking it and 35 days later had the worst bleeding I ever had that sent me to ER. I'm still bleeding after 20 days. This pill caused all this.
Jan 10, 2016
 Progesterone after menopause doesnt work for every body
by: Anonymous

Hello ladies,
The way you are all talking to each other seems like you are very high in progesterone, lol. I thought this site as well as hyster sisters is for us to share from others experiences and learn from each other and help each other, everybody is different and every situation is different. Like many ladies here i also cant tokerate progesterone at all not small disages not any kind or not even supplements that help your body produce its own or mimic progesterone like vit E, D, or some oils like borage and others, i used to be able to tolerate it but after my hysterectomy something happened and i couldnt anymore, maybe my estrogen was so depleted and progesterone reduces estrogen even more. I get gastritis, diahrrea, depression anxiety, nightmares, my moods change i become a monster, mean, negative, a total psycho, on the other hand when i only take estrogen, the estrone kind, not estradiol, i become an angel, i feel so happy and energetic , but sunce i have endometriosis my doc switched me from menest to est estrogen/methiest its the esterified estrogens plus a form of testosterone to counteract the bad effects of estrogen alone, since i also have family history of breast cancer i shouldnt take estrogen, but since i have no ovaries i need it for my stonach and my brain, i wish i could balance it with progesterone since it has its benefits like increased libido, memory, vission, sleep etc, but every time i try it i end up in the E R from severe gastritis and esophagitis, and dictors dint know the answer to that, they say is not common or unlikely, but i have learned to listen to my body, i hope one day we find the answer to that, in the mean time live as you can and enjoy since life is too short, but please if it doesnt suit you STOP, you will inly cause harm to yourself and others. God Bless you all!
Jan 11, 2016
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Hello Annonymous!
Since I have been on this site I have heard others who state they cannot tolerate progesterone at all. Most were only taking 20-50mg a day and then to add to it were taking it by mouth, which is almost useless as the gut, then liver breaks it down to almost nothing. Remember your body does or did make progesterone. If you were ever pregnant you were producing tons of progesterone. All the symptoms you are speaking of are estrogen dominant ones. Also remember that testosterone in a woman is converted to estrogen. I used to have all your symptoms and more and after four years of 300-1,000mg of progesterone everyday, non-stop, can say I am well. Still have down days but then I increase the dosage. If our bodies have high amounts of estrogen in it, i.e. estrogen dominance, then when you take little amounts of progesterone, it excites the estrogen in our bodies and that may be the cause of your trips to the ER after you take the progesterone. You have to make progesterone the dominant hormone in your body to overcome what the estrogen is doing. I hope you find a remedy to help you overcome your ailments as the symptoms can be so debilitating. God Bless! RJ
Jan 12, 2016
 Progesterone, etc.
by: CL

Hello, RJ, Ditto what you just posted. I did 1000 to 1200 mg topical progesterone/day for about four years to finally get complete relief of severe symptoms. My advice for anyone going through this hell is to quickly get progesterone high, and then hang in there! Patience and persistence will be your friends, and you will come to love yourself again. Peace, and good health! CL
Jan 12, 2016
 Progesterone in pregancy
by: Denise

I know that we produce massive amounts of progesterone when pregnant, but we also produce higher levels of estrogens as well (ie. Estriol). I'm not pregnant and don't want to feel like I did when I was, either. I was a slug, had acne and a libido that could top a healthy young man's libido. It was too much. Everyone is different. We all respond to hormones in different ways. A one size fits all just isn't reasonable. I have hashimoto's, so that just throws another wrench into the mix. For the record, when I restarted this progesterone journey again 2-3 years ago, my estradiol levels, as well as my testosterone and progesterone, were coompletely tanked. I was 41 and had the levels of a post menopausal woman. Progesterone supplementation actually created an elevated testosterone level (substantially hiked my free T levels from almost zero to over 3.5) and in turn aromatized into estradiol. My estradiol levels went from <35 (in the luteal phase) to 125. My estrone also spiked to just over the range in the luteal phase. I was now MORE estrogen dominant than before. Now, it has been some time and things have calmed a little bit, but of course, I'm in full blown perimenopause, so I'm no where near a level of relief. For the record, I recently decided to try vaginal delivery again at 100mg (goes straight to the organs that need it, since I have been developing a larger than normal cyst on each ovary that resolves and comes back). This started the whole mess of acne and erratic cycles again. I decided to bump down to a more physiological dose (50mg) intravaginally and things still did not improve, so back to cream (yes, I have finally been able to somewhat tolerate 50mg of cream). I have tried increasing, but my horrible daytime fatigue gets worse and I am wired at night (can't tolerate much cream in the evening). On Another note, I started dropping weight (weight which really wasn't on my radar. I was 139-140lbs at 5'5-1/2" and I am 122lbs now). This could be in combination with the NAC I was taking as well. Not sure what to think of that as I don't really want to be any skinnier than I currently am. Anyway, I'm rambling. Just wanted to update everyone. Just curious if all of you high doses progesterone gals are now thin as rails??
Jan 13, 2016
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Hello Denise!
This 300-1,000mg a day of non-stop progesterone for almost four years, checks in at 250lbs LOL. Cannot explain any of your ratios. I have never and won't have bloodwork done to check my ratios. There's no need as my body is the indicator if it is working. Those tests are super, super expensive. I am blessed that it works for me. Currently, I am at 500mg and have been holding steady for at that for a couple weeks now. For your hashimoto check out Izabella's site thyroidpharmacist.com, she has a wonderful site and has had a horrific journey with hashi. This journey is rough and can be so scary. Our realtor was diagnosed with breast cancer and I sent her Wray's site. They did a lumpectomy and radiation and told her they got it all and now will be putting her on a medication that will keep her estrogen levels low for the next five years of her life as her tumor was estrogenic. She is very scared and asked my opinion...of course, I told her progesterone. Best of luck to you...oh for your fatigue check out Dr. Brownstein another great doctor he advises iodine...I take 30mg a day and that helps give me lots of energy...also d-ribose...5,000mg a day. God Bless! RJ
Feb 26, 2016
 progesterone poisoning
by: Anonymous

Completely untrue statement. There is a genetic mutation whereby people can't metabolize progesterone along with other steroidal hormones. This may be the cause of a negative reaction to progesterone. Many people also have allergies to Progesterone their own, synthetic, or bio-identical that could also be a cause to negative reaction. So yes, "poisoning." Taking more is probably not a good idea until further assessment is completed.
Feb 27, 2016
 Progesterone is poison to my body! Why can't I tolerate it?
by: RJ

Hello Annon!
Would you please provide the research of this as I would really be interested in it. God Bless! RJ
Sep 20, 2016
 Progesterone and Bio-identical Therapies
by: Anonymous

I find it interesting that the bio-identical progesterone cremes are manufactured from component (according to my past research) which are derived either from mexican yams or from soy. If a person has an intolerance or an allergy to these foods, or to other ingredients in the cream, or has some other imbalance or factor impacting the way that their own unique body handles what we put into it and onto it, then that body is just unique. I pray that we all (all of us who suffer with these types of struggles) will ones day be able to free ourselves from them. Never give up! And God bless you all! We are all so intricately unique. When I have found that my doctor's are not able to help me with a symptom or a cause, there is one thing I mainly go back to: studying nutrition and whole body health (including the mind and spirit). It's the only thing that keeps me hanging on. The female, human body is so deeply intricate from one person to the next. God bless again. May we all live to see the day when our suffering has been made into good use and our problems have been solved, and may be all find the joy despite our circumstances in each possible moment that we can! :)
May 08, 2017
 Sulfates are needed
by: Polly

You need enough sulfates to tolerate the natural progesterone. That is the main way the body moves it around.

You are more likely to be low on sulfates if you are mercury poisoned. Mercury causes the body to dump sulfates in the urine.

Also, an inflamed gut will cause you to lose sulfur.
Aug 11, 2021
 Horrible
by: Kimberly

I totally agree with you. I cannot use Progesterone. It causes me to have debilitating fatigue. I have estrogen dominance too, but using Progesterone is horrible. Always check with you Dr. and do what makes you feel best. Don't listen to others, because every person is different.
Aug 11, 2021
 Horrible
by: Joy

Hi Kimberly

You are quite correct in stating that we are all different. However, usually when one battles with progesterone it is not being used correctly and they usually are deficient in vitamin D3. "Others" as you state, have been using progesterone for years with great success. I am not going to explain it all again, Wray, RJ, Carol K and Alyce have all explained it perfectly!

I wish you well.

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