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Still have Insomnia cont'

by Becki
(Morgna Hill, CA U.S.A.)

Hi Wray,
I have gone up to 400 mg of progesterone of the micronized pills disolved in a cream. Have been using that strength for 3 or 4 days. Had an easy period last cycle, but this ovulation seemed worse as my breasts hurt more, more mood swings and more cravings than last month. That is why I went up in strength. In my cycle it seems every other one is worse. In my first writing to you I mentioned (I think) that when my hormones were first tested I had adrenal fatigue with very little cortisol being produced. My last test they read normal, but I still have the adrenaline rush when I get angry and the exhaustion after.I feel quick to anger and irritable. I still need to take a nap almost every afternoon. I think that is why my insomnia is still around. I feel exhausted at night and fall asleep quick, but then I wake up worrying, and kind of amped. Can it still be an adrenal problem even though my levels tested normal? By the way, I had the saliva test, which tested my levels 4 times a day. One more question- I eat pretty decently. I have whole wheat toast with peanut butter on it for breakfast, usually a salad or eggs for lunch and then meat, veggie and more salad for dinner. I also juice kale, a lemon and an apple in the afternoon. But about twice a week sometimes 3 times, I will have a sugar treat, sometimes pizza. Is that going to cancel out the effects of the progesterone? My coffee intake is 12 oz in the morning. Once in awhile I will have a decaff late from Starbucks. I have tried to eat low carb and my depression got worse. When i force myself to eat "perfectly" I want to scream! I have read the nutrition page already. I just received my first 3 pack of Natpro and will be using it after my pills run out. My dad sent some money, yay dad! Thanks again soooooo much for all your help! You must spend so much of your life answering our questions, and I just am so very grateful for you! I thank God at night for you and your willingness to help people for FREE! Not many people will do that these days. Like I've said, you have helped me more than this ding dong hormone dr I paid way to much! And still owe, ugh! Anyway, thanks for listening....
Becki

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Oct 27, 2012
 Still have Insomnia cont'
by: Wray

Hi Becki Bless you for the kind words! I haven't helped enough by the sounds of it! But I'm pleased you've increased the progesterone, 3-4 days won't be enough time of course. But it's a start. It appears you're not getting the surge of progesterone that occurs about 50hrs prior to ovulation. Oestrogen surges then too, but if progesterone doesn't, then symptoms can occur, and are just as bad if not worse, than those at the end of the cycle prior to bleeding. Simply because oestrogen rises higher than it does mid-luteal phase. The progesterone surge has nothing to do with ovulation itself, but comes from the brain, see here, here, here, here and here. It's interesting you say every other cycle is worse. The ovaries usually alternate each month in ovulating, see here and here. It appears that maybe one ovary has decided to have a rest! I'm pleased your adrenals are now normal. Did they test your testosterone levels at all? This is usually responsible for the anger etc. We do have a page on Aggression you could look through. The amped feeling is definitely from too much adrenaline. When they test the adrenals it's usually only cortisol they test, not adrenaline. One of the roles adrenaline plays is stimulating the liver to convert glycogen, our stored sugar, into glucose. So you get a spurt of glucose, but it will burn up quickly leaving you exhausted. You could try taking glutamine, about 4000-8000mg/day. This is an amino acid, but the body can convert it into glucose, very slowly of course, so you don't get a sugar rush. I put some in my water bottle and drink it during the day. If your diet suits you, then don't change it, but could you eat more protein at breakfast, this might help stabilise things. I would also suggest you try tyrosine. This amino is low when stressed, and a lack of it causes the mind to go into overdrive. There's more info on our page about Natural Antidepressants. Apologies if I've told you all this before, but I can't remember! Wonderful dad you have! Take care Wray
Oct 29, 2012
 Still have insomnia cont......
by: Wray

Hi Becki Thanks for letting me know, this probably accounts for the anger. Progesterone does reduce it. If bound to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) testosterone becomes inactive, progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone. SHBG drops if sugars are eaten, even those found in all grains, legumes, dairy and sweet starchy fruits and vegetables. Fructose, sucrose and glucose, reduce SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. Thereby allowing testosterone to rise. It's best to avoid all the foods and sugars mentioned. Glutamine does come in powder form, it doesn't taste too bad either, slightly sweet chalky taste. It's also cheaper as a powder. The 500mg/day tyrosine is a good start, you want to begin slowly and increase gradually. Too much causes the same symptoms you're trying to get rid of. Take care Wray
Nov 05, 2012
 Wondering if I should cont. progesterone through the cycle
by: Becki

Hi Wray,
I have been taking 3 to 4 days off of progesterone the last couple months, because it was suggesteed to give our bodies a break. Well this last cycle I did that and by the 3rd day I was a nut case. Totally irritable, depressed and no energy or motivation. I felt so bad, and am still recovering from it. I'm wondering if I should continue through the cycle. Also the 3rd day was on Halloween and I went a little nuts with the candy, which didn't help I'm sure! Also, you mentioned going off of all grains, legumes and dairy along with starchy veggies and fruits because of the SHGB (I think I wrote that correctly) . That will be very difficult. Do you know of a eating plan that will lay all that out for me? Or have decent recipes? Also, I notice the only time I sleep decently is when I eat sugar, or carbohydrates before bed. I still wake up but not as much and I go back to sleep quicker. There is something still going on with my adrenals because lately I have been feeling so weak and tired and my blood pressure is already low, 100 over 70 something I think. Cant remember the bottom # but the top is usually in the 100 range. When I drink salt water I seem to feel better. Weird huh? Anyway, sorry for the rambling! Thanks again. Still taking 400 mg progesterone twice a day in cream. Hoping I can lower it soon, for financial reasons!
Becki
Nov 08, 2012
 Wondering if I should cont. progesterone through the cycle
by: Wray

Hi Becki You will have read about taking a break on another site, not here! I never recommend one, not if symptoms are bad. Because each time you stop oestrogen begins rising again, not what you need! So I'm not surprised you felt like a nut case. This happened to me too, when I first used it. I was still bleeding regularly, but did my symptoms come back, omg. So I asked Dr Dalton if I could use it daily, she said yes, and I never looked back. No, your Halloween binge would not have helped at all. The only eating plans I recommend are those on our nutrition page which you say you've looked through. You need to eat more protein, you will find this does stabilise you blood glucose and you won't need the carbs. Fascinating you say the only time you sleep well is when you eat sugar or carbs before bed. Any carb/sugar raises levels of serotonin, this as you know is a neurotransmitter which helps sleep, it's the precursor to melatonin. It also makes us feel good/better. Low levels can cause sugar cravings, as the body knows this is one way of getting serotonin up, but not a good way at all. As it can become a cycle leading to obesity. I did suggest you try glutamine, to help the sugar cravings. Now I'm going to suggest inositol, this raises levels of serotonin gently, it does help sleep as a consequence of this. You will need at least 4000mg/day, it's very safe, levels of 18,000mg/day are given to people with OCD, which incidentally it cures, see here, here and here. Otherwise you can try tryptophan, the precursor to serotonin, but it's difficult to use. I suggest you try the inositol first. Drinking salt is not weird, the adrenals need sodium which they get from salt. In fact this is usually the first line of defence if the adrenals are stressed, drink salt water, or add more to food. Interestingly salt also helps sleep problems too, so you could try drinking some before bed. Continued below
Nov 08, 2012
 Wondering if I should cont. progesterone through the cycle Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Becki Weakness and tiredness are also a sign vitamin D and progesterone are too low. Both these can correct myopathy, I had that badly and it all went once my progesterone level increased, see here, here and here. And Biol Res Nurs April 2004 vol. 5 no. 4 265-275 Respiration. 1983;44(6):460-5 and here. 'Substantial relief of myopathic disability by progesterone therapy'...the abstract has nothing on it, so I've pasted a passage from the paper.....
(We report about a 41-year old woman who was suffering from a general muscle weakness since her early childhood....From July 1998 until July 1999 the patient was treated with progesterone suppositorium 0.4 g once a day from the 14th to the 25th day of the menstrual cycle. In July 1999 her gait had improved significantly and she could get up from a chair more easily, even her ability to walk up and down stairs had improved....Progesterone dosage was increased from 400 mg to 600 mg. In January 2001 the patient reported enthusiastically about the improvement she had gained from progesterone-therapy. The patient reported a clear increase in strength in all affected muscle groups resulting in dramatic functional improvement.) You did say you were using 400mg/day progesterone, but now you say '400 mg progesterone twice a day', I don't know if you really need 800mg/day, or is it helping? Don't forget the other nutrients on the anxiety page I gave you, they can also help. And will probably mean you don't have to use so much progesterone. Take care Wray
Nov 11, 2012
 Sleep problems still.....
by: Anonymous

Wray,
Thank you again for your help. I have been trying the glutamine for about 4 or 5 days now. Also trying the Tyrosine and the salt water. Nothing seems to be helping a of yet. Seem to be sleeping worse. I will try Inositol, is this also called Niacin? My husband takes it. I tried taking one once and it made me nauseous. I will try again. I was dissolving 200 mg caps of progesterone into cream twice a day, so I was taking 400 mg total, sorry for the confusion. I am now taking your Nat Pro at 330 total with a bit more to make it close to 400 mg. Yesterday was my first day. I think I feel weak and tired because I just don't sleep. I have been battling this for years and am now feeling defeated and angry! Ugh! I do feel that it has to do with my serotonin level, as I"ve had depression since I was in 5th grade, so since 11 years old? I did start puberty around that time too, developed earlier than most. Interesting huh? Is it possible I had a progesterone deficiency then too? I really appreciate you and your work here, you have helped so many people!
Becki
Nov 11, 2012
 One more thing...
by: Anonymous

Wray,
Sorry One more thing. I have tried tryptohan too, 1000 mg and a good quality from Life Extension. I have tried numerous anti depressants and the only one that really worked was Prozac, but stopped working after 2 years. They also gave me trazadone to sleep ( I think that's the name of it), and it helped but still didn't sleep through the night with out waking up a few times. I wake up every time I go to move. So I fall asleep fine for 2 to 3 hours then through the rest of the night I wake up every hour just about, on a bad night, and on a good night 4 to 8 times but at least I go back to sleep in between those times. During ovulation I literally would hardly sleep at all, and also during my period. Weird huh? I have tried sooo many sleep remedies, to no avail! Since taking the progesterone it's not so bad during ovulation, but still a bit more awake than normal. Thanks, sorry!
Becki
Nov 12, 2012
 OOps! That was from me , Becki...
by: Becki

Sorry , the last 2 were from me. Didn't put my name in the box! Sorry....
Nov 13, 2012
 Sleep problems still.....
by: Wray

Hi Becki Please don't expect miracles! If you've only been trying things for a few days, you won't feel any different. It can take weeks for something to have an affect. We have no idea of the many other things that need correcting, before the one we're conscious of goes. Inositol is classified as a B vitamin, but it's not niacin, that is vitamin B3. Niacin can cause nausea, hot flushes too. Although these are totally unlike the peri-menopausal hot flushes. Thanks for clearing the confusion. The weakness and tiredness can be due to lack of sleep, but don't discount the lack of progesterone and vitamin D, as that also causes it. It's not necessarily low serotonin causing the depression, lack of progesterone and vitamin D also cause it. And as it started at puberty it makes me suspect the reason is low progesterone. I also suspect low vitamin D then too, as this causes puberty to begin earlier than it should. There's more info on puberty, menarche and Menstruation on this page. And no it's not weird about your pattern of sleeping, it fits the rise in oestrogen perfectly! I did give you that info in my first reply, but maybe my explanation wasn't clear enough. From about days 3-5 oestrogen begins rising. But about 50 hours prior to ovulation it rises exponentially. Progesterone should rise exponentially then too. It's always been believed, and still is by everyone including the medical profession, that progesterone is only produced by the corpus luteum after ovulation. But as far back as 1930 it was thought there must be another source. This was confirmed in the 1960's, and re-confirmed in the 1980's, that there is a surge of progesterone about 50 hours prior to ovulation. This surge comes from the brain, see here, here, here and here. Continued below
Nov 13, 2012
 Sleep problems still..... Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Becki Unless there is the progesterone surge too, there is nothing to counter the oestrogen surge. This explains why many women get migraines, seizures, palpitations, panic attacks and asthma attacks around ovulation. The same reasoning can be applied to the worsening of these problems, plus more, during progesterone withdrawal prior to bleeding, and often during bleeding too. It's evident you didn't get the progesterone surge, or insufficient was secreted. And it seems your progesterone level was too low during the luteal phase to counter oestrogen then. Or it dropped too sharply leaving oestrogen dominant. I suggest you increase the progesterone the few days before ovulation and bleeding, and see if that helps. Take care Wray
Nov 13, 2012
 OOps! That was from me , Becki...
by: Wray

Hi Becki I realised this! Take care Wray
Aug 19, 2013
 Anti depressants
by: Becki

Hi Wray,
I have been on NatPro for awhile now, and had good results. But there is still my underlining depression (which is a lot better, but still there). So I thought I would try Prozac, which helped my mood but I can't stop eating and I've gained 7 pounds! I worded really hard to take off my weight so this made me depressed! What are your thoughts on antidepressants? I was taking 330 mg of Natpro but then you ran out of stock! Had to use something else and sunk back into my old, really yucky depression!! Waiting for NatPro to get here!!! Why does this keep happening in the stock room? I know it's not anyones fault, just a lot of supply and demand, but it's hard on us women that really need it!!! I know you understand! On the positive side, it's wonderful that there is something that really helps! I am still needing to use 330 mg though, whenever I go down a little, I feel that depression come back! UGH! Any suggestions? I haven't been eating perfectly, so I know that's part of it. I have a food/sugar addiction, so that is standing in the way. I take 10,000 of vit D, a multi vitamin, a B vit 50 mg, and I excercise 3 to 4 times a week. I juice every day with kale, spinach, apple and lemon. Help!
Aug 21, 2013
 Anti depressants
by: Wray

Hi Becki I'm delighted you're getting good results, but not that you had to start Prozac. This is a good article here on it. One of the side effects of the ADs is weight gain, there are many more too, see here. I'm so sorry about the stock outs, yes it is supply and demand. But also cash flow, we're a small company and at times the demand outstrips the cash. Plus we were hit by an internet fraud last year and we're still trying to recover. It was a scam coming from the UK, very clever too. They stole credit cards and then ordered stock from us, we lost 1000 tubes until we realised what was happening. If you have a sugar/carb addiction that will cause depression. It appears you could have Insulin Resistance, this prevents fuel getting into the cells where it's needed. So a vicious cycle starts up. Please consider following the Ketogenic Diet. And get hold of "Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It" by Gary Taubes, see here. It's an excellent book which explains the role carbohydrates and insulin play in our body. And how damaging both are when in excess. The Keto Diet reduces glucose levels to the barest minimum, and the body uses ketones for energy. It's a very high fat, moderate to low protein and very low carb diet. Only the good fats should be used, i.e. MCT oil, coconut oil, butter, olive oil or macadamia oil. The first three are saturated fats, the other two mono-unsaturated fats. The best is the MCT oil, an extract from coconut oil. The body converts the fatty acid into ketones, in fact the brain does better on these than glucose. MCT oil forms ketones more efficiently than the other oils. The diet varies from a 4:1 ratio of fat to protein/carb down to a 1:1 ratio which is the easier to follow. It's also essential to eat enough protein. This is based on 0.9g to 1.0g of protein per kg per day of lean muscle mass. Contrary to what is generally believed a lack of protein leads to bone loss. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

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