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Anyone out there dealing with postpartum issues?

by Ashley

Hi, I have read entries of many of you that are suffering or have suffered with postpartum issues. You can read my original entry PND and Anxiety and severe PMS on 11/19/12. I am wondering how you all are doing now that you are taking Progesterone. How much are you taking? I am taking 400mg of oral progesterone but I am switching to cream once my shipment comes in. I am disappointed that the oral hasn't help me much as much as I had hoped, but I am praying that it is because it is the least effective delivery method. My symptoms are mostly anxiety, heart palpitations, terrible PMS with agitation and no tolerate for stress, and depressed moods. I am 6.5 months postpartum with my second child. I had PPA with my first as well, and then bad PMS followed. In looking back on my life though, I think I have always had a hormonal imbalance. This website has been so helpful and provided me so much hope. I just wanted to connect with others that are dealing with postpartum depression.
Hope to hear from you,
Ashley

And thank you Wray for helping so many people! Your advice is amazing and makes so much sense. I literally look at this site at least once, if not four times a day, so that I can continue to educate myself and climb out of "this" that I am going through.

Comments for Anyone out there dealing with postpartum issues?

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Mar 05, 2013
 Anyone out there dealing with postpartum issues?
by: Joy

Hi Ashley

You are correct oral progesterone is not the best delivery method, you will notice a big difference when your cream arrives. You may need more than 400mg progesterone cream though, it all depends on how severe your symptoms are.

So many people have been helped when they increase the amount. I am sure that Wray will comment further.

Good luck but please stick with it, it really does help.
Mar 05, 2013
 Anyone out there dealing with postpartum issues?
by: Wray

Hi Ashley Bless you for the kind words! I do hope someone responds. It is a long haul, and it's good to get encouragement from others. I'm really delighted you're switching to a cream, the oral leaves a lot to be desired. The only thing it seems to be good for is sleep problems. If you start off on 400mg/day, I don't think you'll have too much in the way of adverse symptoms. But it's always so difficult to gauge. I can't remember if I told you to check your copper levels, as this plays a big role in PND. You could just start taking zinc and see if that helps, zinc opposes copper. About 50mg/day for a month, then reduce to 15mg/day. And did I give you the Anxiety page, as that lists more nutrients, worth taking some of them too. Let me know how you get on with the cream. Take care Wray
Mar 10, 2013
 UPDATE
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
Just to update you....I started 400mg of cream and had 3 calm days and then the past few days have been terrible..debilitating anxiety and heart palps. I don't know if it is because of where I am in my cycle. I am currently on day 17 of a 24 day cycle. I know stress drops progesterone levels so this could be it too. But, that is just it, since I don't have any progesterone, I can't handle stress in the first place. I am going to ask my doc to prescribe a higher dose cream. However, it could be to that since my levels are so low, that I am still just stimulating the estrogen. I had a test done in November and my P/E ratio was a 42 and some days I feel like a basket case. I am just worried that my doc will think that 600-800mg is excessive, I wrote him an email with all the info about Katherine Dalton and the amounts she used. Do you know if suppositories are more cost effective than the creams...I am willing to do anything. I personally think I should start at 800. Thx Wray!
Mar 11, 2013
 positive experience :)
by: Margit

Hi ashley,

you are not alone out there ! I had the worst past partum / post breastfeeding ;) blues after my third child , but they stroke me only after i ceased breastfeeding abruptly at alomst 24 months.
I too suffered these terrible palpitations and anxiety :( awfull that is ... but i can tell you good news :) i am on progs. for 3 months now contiously without a break, i use it topically and am still using about 600 mg a day. well i am much much better!! palps are almost completely gone and when they come its merely a higher pulse ,,, not making me nervous anymore, anxiety completely gone and also much better moods,,, i am very positive that it will help you, but its also important to follow a healthy diet, i switched to paleodiet, which excludes all grains , sugar, etc. it made quite a difference as i realzied that certain foods triggered palps especially heavy meals such as pasta and pizza etc.or high sugar fruits. yet on the other side the longer being on progesterone the more you will be able to tolerate such foods , as I have come to realized lately when i tried eating them again. vit d 3 helped me immsenly as well as soon as my levels went up i did not get sick anymore,,, in fact all winter i stayed flue free whereas everyone around me would fall sick and believe me i used to fall sick often ;)
at last i have to say that you need to be consistent, take it throughout the month, dont be scared to take a higher dosage ( at times i took 800 mg) when you feel that you need it and calculate that you will have days where you think it is not working and it certainly will take some time. after three months on it I can tell you that I am much better and many symptoms went , but I am still not stable and some sympomts still pop up now and then,,, i am stiking too it until things sooth out completely :)
really wishing you all the best!!! and dont refrain writing me via this site ;)
margit
Mar 12, 2013
 Anyone out there dealing with postpartum issues?
by: Joy

Hi Ashley

Are you using Natpro or another brand of progesterone cream? If you are using Natpro then 400mg possibly more is needed depending on how severe your ymptoms are. Some people use as much as 1200mg before they see an improvement. You have only been using the cream for a few days, this is not nearly enough time. It can take 3 to 6 months, maybe longer before things improve, again this depends on how severe symptoms are. The more cream used in the beginning the quicker things improve. Once they do you can slowly start to reduce by 20mg at a time. Do this slowly though as reducing too much too soon will cause symptoms to return.

The heart palpitations and anxiety that you are experiencing is a common thing and is due to estrogen dominance. Have you read Wray's page on
Estrogen Dominance?

Margit is correct, you need to use the cream every day through any bleeding. Vitamin D is also very important, have you had a test done for this? A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone.

I hope that things improve for you soon.
Mar 15, 2013
 positive experience :)
by: Wray

Hi Margit Bless you again!! Take care Wray
Mar 15, 2013
 UPDATE
by: Wray

Hi Ashley The answer is yes, day 17 of a 24 day cycle is when progesterone peaks. But so too does oestrogen. And it's this peak which has upset you. I can't tell you if suppositories are more cost effective, you will have to make enquiries about their cost, and compare it. I do know the costs of many creams, and compare them to ours of course, but I haven't checked those for suppositories. 800mg/day is a good amount if you can get it, but please take those nutrients on the anxiety page, it will be an uphill battle for progesterone alone. This was sent to me from a friend in the UK, such a pity all they advise is counselling and antidepressants, see here. Take care Wray
Mar 17, 2013
 reply to Margit
by: Ashley

Hello Margit,
Thank you for your comments and support. I am really happy to hear that you are getting better. It is interesting that you mention that you get heart palps after eating certain foods. I have had this for years and never quite understood why. If I have a glass of fruit juice or eat something sugary, it happens. I asked other people if they get it too, and they said no. So, is this problem related to estrogen dominance you think? Now that I have studied estrogen dominance, I truly think I have suffered a hormonal imbalance since puberty, but things just got horrific after childbirth. I do feel the progesterone is working though...pity I did not know this with my daughters birth.
So, if you are using the progesterone straight through, how do you begin cycling again? Thank you for your help.
Mar 17, 2013
 To Joy
by: Ashley

Hi Joy,
Thank you for your comments and support. No, I am not using Natpro but I did consider it. I did finally get my doc to prescribe a higher dose of cream so now 2 clicks provided 1/2 gram. So, on bad days, I have been doing 2 clicks in the morning, and one or two at night. Other days, like during my period, when according to my doc, i should not be taking it, I try to manage without but if I feel anxiety, I will take some. Like today, I am on day 4 of my cycle and I did have some heart palps, so I took 250mg. I am trying to use it with my cycle because I am scared to use it straight through. Have you used it straight through? was it hard to get back on a cycle? I guess I just don't want to add more problems for myself if I can get away with no doing it. Do you think it is okay to use it as needed during my period and then just go back to using it everyday on day 8 OR will using it everyday for 3 months bring me back in balance sooner. I would say my symptoms are severe but I do take tons of the anxiety supplements and also lots of vitamins that have helped tremendously. thank you!
Mar 18, 2013
 reply to Margit
by: Wray

Hi Ashley I would like to help out re the fruit juice or sugary foods. Yes oestrogen does destabilise blood glucose, see here. But that's not only why you get those symptoms. Sugar in any form, even the supposed 'good' forms like fruit and fruit juice, is a toxin. I know we are all told to eat loads of fruit, but modern fruit is a bag of sugar water. Organic is better, but even this bears no resemblance to the small sour wild fruits we used to eat millennia ago. Grains are worse, as these convert to glucose far quicker. If sugars are eaten, in any form, our blood glucose rises. If the pancreas is trigger happy, as your's appears to be, it releases too much insulin. This brings the glucose down too rapidly, the brain sensing this responds by sending a message to the adrenals to make adrenaline, hence the heart palps. Many women get panic attacks too, the same cause. Adrenaline alerts the liver to convert glycogen into glucose to prevent blood glucose dropping too low and sending us into a coma. There's more info on our Anxiety page. Take care Wray
Mar 18, 2013
 reply to ashley
by: Margit

hi ashley,

that you react so strong towards fruit and sugar indicates a 'fructose intolerance' please look it up in the internet,, it pretty much describes your symptoms. the next time that you experience this try taking a high dosage 1000 mg calcium supplement ( being only calcium preferably in powder or liquid) as it greatly counteracts the histamin( causing the rapid heart beat) which your body produces after ingesting the fructose, this might help you , it surely helped me many times:). yes i truly think it is also related to estrogene dominance as estrogene is an 'exciting' and inlfammatory hormone it makes matters only worse. yet if your body produces enough progesterone this will be counteracted quite nicely. i had that experience when i was pregnant, before i completed the fourth month certain foods would make me get palps, as soon as i reached though month 5 or six , the same foods would cause nothing at all!! my only explanation to this would be a relatively high amount of progesterone produced by the placenta.
you need to take the progesterone for quite some time , as it takes time to increase the level in the body. i would not bother about cycling yet,, try taking it for at least three months continously or until you really feel stable! i am still taking it daily and only now on the 4th month i start to feel more stable and more me:) actually in many respects i feel better than ever before , as i am able to tolerate stress, being it emotional or physical.to speed things up i would advise you to change your diet accordingly, have a look at the nurtition page on this site, i am on the paleo diet and it helped tremendously. leave out the foods for now that give you palps , at least until you reached a steady level with progesterone. i dont know about you but foods with artificial sulphure ( sulfites) also give me trouble,, i found out that the trace mineral molybdenum is really helpful when it comes to digest these sulfites into beneficial sulfate. in fact it helped me so much as to stop the palps completely, when caused by food. also some fruit disturb the function of molybdenum, buckwheat is a great source of this important mineral which sadly lacks in the earth nowadays hence we all might be a bit deficiant . please also research on it via the net. i am sure you will find much logic in in.
i really whish for you to be better soon!!
please let us all know:)
margit
Mar 18, 2013
 to Margit and Wray
by: Anonymous

Thank you Margit and Wray for your comments. I decided to go ahead and take progesterone everyday..so far today I have taken 500mg. One thing I have noticed is that if I am okay and don't have anxiety and heart palps, then often I have depressed moods. I am on my period now and this does seem to happen. I don't want to have either anxiety or depression, but I have noticed that it rotates. Don't get me wrong, I do have great days too, just wish they were more consistent and more often. Today there is no reason for me to be depressed. I got out and exercised, got some things accomplished, been talking with friends, and it is a bright sunny day out and the kids have been great. No one would even suspect me of being depressed today either but I just have a lonely feeling. Is this progesterone deficiency? I am used to dealing with the anxiety more so. I have taken my vitamins, Zinc, 5htp, D. Thanks you two!
Mar 18, 2013
 To Margit and Wray
by: Anonymous

Hi Margit and Wray,

To add to my previous comment, I just called my pharmacy and sure enough they messed up on my prescription. 2 clicks was only providing me with 20mg and here I though I as getting 200mg. Uggh! I am sure this is why I have felt so down the past few days.
Mar 19, 2013
 Anyone out there dealing with postpartum issues?
by: Joy

Hi Ashley

We are all here to share our personal experiences with others and to offer support. Doctors often leave us feeling confused and desperate, this is why so many people turn to natural methods.

As long as the cream that you are using is helping you that is fine, the important thing is that you use the correct amount of progesterone for your symptoms. You should be using nothing less than 400mg per day possibly more depending on how bad your symptoms are. I see Margit finally landed up using 600mg before she felt better. If the cream that you are using is not helping you, then why don't you consider using Natpro - see here.

Like Margit, I also suggest that you use the cream every day through any bleeding or spotting, for 3 to 6 months or until you feel stable enough. You can then start to follow your cycle again. I use the cream every day and have done so for nearly 9 years, I have not missed one day. Please also remember that it must be used a minimum of twice a day as progesterone levels start to drop after 13 hours. You really are going to battle if you use it the way you are.

I have mentioned this before but Vitamin D is extremely important, a deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone. Have you had a Vitamin D test done, if so, what is your level?

I wish you well.
Mar 21, 2013
 to Margit and Wray
by: Wray

Hi Ashley Well that explains everything! I see Joy has asked if you are using enough too. 20mg/day is the standard amount, the 'clicks' are obviously designed to give 10mg. It would be most unusual to find a pump action container giving 200mg/day! We've been looking for a container that would give 1ml, dispensing 33.3mg of our cream, but we haven't found one yet. Well not one that is accurate, this is partly why we still use the tubes. The drawback of any pump action is how much it can deliver, some of our customers are using 1000mg/day and more. They'd get cramp in their fingers! So if you want to use 500mg/day, you will get cramp, as you'd have to pump it 50 times! How much does the container hold, probably 1000mg or maybe 2000mg. So it would last you either 2 days or 4 days. I do agree with both Joy and Margit that you do need a lot to help. But please consider the nutrients listed on the anxiety page, and as Joy said, check your vitamin D levels. Take care Wray

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