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The hormonal roller coaster

by Natasha
(UK)

Dear Wray, Your website and all the contributors' stories are my only ray of hope that I may indeed feel well again as I approach the menopause. (My GP will only give me anti-depressants because I still have my periods and no hot flushes but I intuitively feel that is wrong for me.) So I thought I should add my story so far to help others.

In hindsight I can see that I've been dealing with oestrogen dominance since my early 40s, (currently 48). I've abdomen weight gain, overwhelming carb cravings. water retention, chronic thrush for over 7 years (well permanent actually that no candida diet/probiotics/anti fungals seem to cure - I've tried that so many times!!!) and in later years crashing fatigue and moderate depression. I put this last symptom down to some very trying life circumstances but now I'm not so sure that is the whole story.

I came across bio-identical hormones by fluke surfing the net one night. I decided to try progesterone cream and from looking at Dr Lee's site, decided on Pro-Gest. I used it as directed for 2 months at the end of last year. I noticed my carb cravings became controllable again and my spots disappeared. I felt better but when the cream ran out, I hesitated in buying more as I am having financial difficulties. (It can be more expensive for UK buyers)

In the 3 months that followed without using cream, I felt so bad. Mostly suicidal and badly depressed, unable to eat healthily. My body craved all that was bad for me, in particular wheat and sugar which have always given my problems. In hindsight, I put this down to the progesterone stimulating the oestrogen receptors again. Does that make sense?

I started using the cream again last month (April) following my cycle and in the 2nd week, my depression vanished and my mind felt like I was in my late 20s. My body didn't but then I hadn't exercised it for months. :-) But I felt so excited and strong. I was easily able to give up all the bad foods, in fact I craved good foods. I was able to exercise too.

I dreaded stopping the cream but I did and 5 days later my depression/carb cravings crept back. From reading your site, I started using the Pro-Gest again anyway but it didn't make any noticeable difference. I've now ordered Natpro from Jean in the UK and I have all my fingers and toes crossed for the benefits.

Curious about experimenting with the levels, I stopped using the Pro-Gest a few days ago (maybe I shouldn't have) but what I've noticed is that I'm getting severe PMS cravings and depression as my oestrogen levels rise. I haven't yet hit my mid cycle. I feel like a drug addict needing a fix of wheat, sugar and plain chocolate and I can't stop crying all the time. What is holding me together is that I understand why I feel like this and that it will change in due course.

The small cloud left on my horizon is the concept that my body will become saturated with progesterone, causing the OD symptoms to return.

Comments for The hormonal roller coaster

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May 13, 2011
 The hormonal roller coaster
by: Wray

Hi Natasha It does sound as if you need progesterone, you've responded so well. And no, you don't need anti-depressants. We do have a page on Anxiety you might like to look at. All your symptoms point to Oestrogen Dominance. Peri-menopause is such a difficult time, as bad as puberty! When we also need progesterone to help us through the rough patches. We do have a page on Candida you might like to look at. Oestrogen exacerbates it, which is probably why you've never had any success at getting rid of it. Progesterone actually helps it. The 3 months without progesterone allowed oestrogen to rise again, hence the problems. Cravings for sugar and carbs, and wheat in particular, is often caused by oestrogen, candida is another cause. Oestrogen also causes PMS and depression too, I couldn't stop crying either. Thank heavens that's behind me! I feel you could do with a month or two, maybe longer, using it continuously. Evidently your oestrogen is high, and your progesterone non existent. We've found from Saliva Tests we run that the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be 600:1 and over to feel well. I've used ±170mg/day progesterone for 15 years, and have never experienced saturation. In fact I have on occasion used 2tsp/day which gives 330mg/day progesterone. When I do, I get bad oestrogen dominance, but the symptoms I was using more for, all go. So does oestrogen dominance. I think I can safely say my receptors are working well and I'm not saturated with progesterone! I do recommend using 100-200mg/day progesterone, I've found anything less merely exacerbates symptoms. But it's entirely dependant on the individual and the problems they are having. There's no rocket science to using progesterone, there are so many misconceptions about it. It can be used anywhere, as the skin comprises 95% kerotinocytes, which all have ample receptor sites. It should be used a minimum of twice a day, but hourly is fine if symptoms are severe. Jean is wonderful if you should have any queries, sometimes my answers are 2-3 weeks late. Take care Wray
May 18, 2011
 the ride gets bumpy
by: Natasha (UK)

Hello folks,

I think this is where the ride gets a little bumpy. I've been using progesterone cream again for 9 days. First 3 still with Pro Gest as my Natpro hadn't arrived. That meant I started with a low dose of 20mg per day and then up to 93 and now on 166 per day of Natpro.

On a positive note I love using Natpro. It is lighter and has no smell. It feels luxurious on my skin.

Downside is that since on the higher dosage I feel an emotional wreck. I can manage the carb cravings again and I'm eating better but I want to cry all the time and feel very fragile. Other OD symptoms are tender breasts, bloating and water retention. Period due is 3-5 days but from the way I feel now it could come tomorrow.

I'm not giving up on the cream but now I understand why some women feel frightened when they start using it and do. I certainly wasn't expecting this after my euphoria in April.

Will keep you all updated as I progress.
May 23, 2011
 the ride gets bumpy
by: Wray

Hi Natasha Many thanks for the update. I'm pleased you like the Natpro, we have tried to make it as simple and natural as possible. But at the same time absorb well, we know it does this from the saliva tests we run. I so wish oestrogen dominance didn't occur, I know how you're feeling, but there's nothing else you can do except ride it out. If you can afford it, as I know you are having difficulties, I can only ask you to use more. This can speed things up a bit. I would love to know how you get on, when you have the time. Take care Wray
May 27, 2011
 an update
by: Natasha UK

Hello,

Here's short up date. Its been 18 continuous days of using progesterone cream and 14 days on Natpro. I don't intend to stop it until my symptoms are under control.

My period came a few days early whilst using 1 tsp per day. So didn't need to stop using the cream for it to come. & its still happening, 9 days later but very light now.

I feel flat but not terrible. Lethargic, tired and whilst I can mentally control my food cravings, I'm getting a nawing hunger pang, bit hypoglycemic which no food/meal seems to satisfy.

I'm not sure if this is a candida die off reaction or lack of progesterone. I have totally cut out wheat/cheese successfully, minimised most carbs but have had some fruit sugar, apples and some caffiene, I know all about the strict candida diets and having been on & off them so many times over the past 8 years. I'm mentally exhausted with how rigid they are. I can't face being that fastidious right now.

I'll try increasing the cream and see if that helps too. Will keep you posted. I long for the success I had in April.
Jun 01, 2011
 weight loss
by: Natasha UK

Progress. 23 days constant use of Natpro, 1 tsp per day.

I've lost weight due to sensible eating & cutting back on carbs. 4 ibs in 3 weeks. Very pleased. Aim to lose approx 12 more to feel comfortable in my own skin again.

Progesterone cream has not caused me to put on weight. Wray is right, you have to use enough to stop the cravings and over eating. The cream alone won't make you put on weight.

My mood and mental energy is slowly improving too.

Good luck every one and persevere.
Jun 03, 2011
 an update
by: Wray

Hi Natasha Thanks so much for coming back to me, it does help. Progesterone can upset the cycle, but it's nothing to worry about. If the bleeding should continue for so long next time, please increase the amount you're using. I have found 400mg/day will stop it, although I know you have financial difficulties. All your symptoms point to oestrogen again, plus of course the candida you're battling. One man I helped referred to candida as a monster! It is, as it dictates what foods to eat to satisfy it. I'm not convinced by the strict candida diets, it's carbs they need, ie wheat, fruit, sugar etc. You say you are having some fruit sugar, do you mean fructose? If so then please change to either xylitol (2.4 calories/g) or erythritol (0 calories/g). Both these sugar alcohols are very good sugar substitutes, although more expensive. But the advantage is they kill the bad bacteria in our mouths, in fact they are used to sweeten mouthwashes and chewing gum for this reason. Plus fungi can't live off them, as they can sugar and fructose. An apple or two is not going to harm, and if coffee encouraged candida, then I should be riddled with it! I'm not sure what foods you are eating, but they could be wrong for your metabolic type. You might like to see our page on Nutrition. There are links to three websites, giving to my mind the three best options for eating. I've discovered I'm a protein type, ie I do better on more protein than carbs. So having discovered this, Dr Mercola's site will tell you what you are, I now follow the Paleo Diet, with some of the raw food advice thrown in. This tries to mimic what hunter gatherers eat, in other words the diet we used to eat, before the agricultural revolution ±10,000 years ago. According to Cordain et al, we should never eat wheat or legumes. They were only introduced about 5,000 years ago to the UK and northern Europe, having spread from the Tigris/Euphrates valley where it all started. We are not designed to digest them, interestingly the raw food diet doesn't use them at all either, except sprouts. One thing I feel remiss about, I didn't ask you to have a vitamin D test done. You live in the UK, where almost everyone has a low level, please get it checked. I believe Birmingham Hospital now do it for about £20, alternatively see the Vitamin D council and GrassrootsHealth websites for more info. A lack of vitamin D impacts hugely on our health, one thing it reduces the benefits of progesterone. Take care Wray
Jun 08, 2011
 weight loss
by: Wray

Hi Natasha This is so helpful, getting your feedback. I'm delighted you have lost weight too. You are so right, enough progesterone does have to be used. Unfortunately the web is littered with complaints from women using far too low an amount, and then complaining the progesterone causes weight gain. It can't, it's thermogenic, ie speeds metabolism slightly. Please keep an eye out for Oestrogen Dominance, as this can come out of the blue. Usually due to extra stress, if this should occur please increase the amount until it goes. Take care Wray
Jun 08, 2011
 Thank you and an update.
by: Natasha (UK)

Hi Wray,

Thank you so much for both of your supportive responses. I almost cried because here in the UK I think women are particularly unsupported in this area.

I'm currently having a set back. I'm still taking 5 ml Natpro daily. & have changed my diet to be mostly low carb, high protein diet. I was already familiar with metabolic typing and like you, a high protein diet suits me better. But thanks for the links as I'm always looking for new info.

The only foods I could still cut out for candida are apples, oat crackers (no wheat or trans fats) and rice cakes, plus I'm drinking some caffeine - green tea mostly and some black tea with organic milk.

I started taking pau d'arco as an anti-fungal for the last week. I think it must be very powerful as exhaustion has set in and today I woke up with a raging sore throat. Or just bad luck that my immune system is compromised & I caught a bug.

What I'm finding so frustrating is that my mental energy has returned since taking progesterone cream but my body is saying, no, stop & let me rest. Any attempts to exercise, such as a brisk walk, feels as hard as climbing mountain. I did 30 mins yesterday & today I woke up with a sore throat. & all my muscles, particularly my shoulders ache. For a few days now.

The positive point I'm hanging on to is that progesterone therapy is preventing me falling apart & is maintaining my will power to eat well.

Thank again Wray for all your support.

Natasha.
Jun 16, 2011
 Thank you and an update.
by: Wray

Bless you Natasha We all need as much help as we can get from our friends! Having been through hell and back, I really do know how you feel. Please persevere, I know you will come right. I don't think the food you mentioned will be affecting things unduly, unless it's your only food, which it's not. So pleased you know about metabolic typing too, an excellent view on diet. Your exhaustion could be due to Insulin Resistance, which I see I haven't mentioned to you. Please read through this and see if it rings any bells. And please, when you can afford it, have that vitamin D test done, a lack of this leads in IR. I've had confirmation that Birmingham Hospital does do it for £20, see here. Finally, please send me a message via this link here. It will be forwarded to me if you address it to me. Take care Wray
Oct 09, 2014
 Update 3 years on and skin rash question
by: Natasha (UK)

Its 3 years since I posted on here. And I thought I'd update my progress.

1) The cream definitely works for me. My mistake (mainly due to lack of money) has been to stop/start using it over these years. And every time I've stopped, my symptoms have returned but worse. And without a supportive medical practitioner or anyone to talk, to, I've let myself slide further down each time. Symptoms have been a feeling of fragility, fatigue that goes deep to my core being, negative thoughts (but not depression because I could still feel joy for others) and a carb/sugar addiction.

It was a family member who begged me to get checked for type 2 diabetes (a -ve result btw) that got me starting with Natpro again in December. All my symptoms improved until I stopped end March whilst I had a period. (they're very erratic now at 52). Big mistake. Both mood and energy crashed so low that I had no inner strength to cope. And no support either (medical or social).

In the midst of despair in August, I started using the cream again (along with Iron - I did discover low ferritin levels during my check up). And I have kept going.

Most of my symptoms have vastly improved. I'm having a wobble at the moment as I feel a period is overdue but no blood. I long for that because late August during my last period, my mood was back to normal. Now I'm struggling again but nothing like as bad as was without the cream.

But.. there is always a but. I have to skin problems. One I'm certain is not Natpro related. Eczema which is linked candida has flared again very badly but only since eating healthily. I've cut sweet carbs and eat very few unsweetened carbs (oat cakes and pitta bread) and my eczema is the worst its been. All spots are linked to gut and digestion.

The 2nd rash looks different and has only come on 4 days ago. And is in places where I've been applying the cream. On my belly and inner thighs. But not all places where I apply the cream has the rash developed. eg: my neck or chest or face. Just in those two areas. So is this 2nd rash also candida related? Or progesterone cream?
Nov 09, 2014
 Update 3 1/2 weeks
by: Natasha (UK)

I found it useful for myself to record my progress and if it helps others too. Great.

Since I posted on the 9th Oct, I continued to use Natpro on other areas of my body - soles of my feet mainly - and no rashes appeared there. So it wasn't a skin reaction to the cream. But the rashes continued to get worse. Over my torso and inner thighs, plus inner left forearm. This last spot was the worst.

By 17th Oct (Just over week after I posted here and after 3 wks of rashes, I went to see a GP and I was lucky to be seen that afternoon. Not a lady I had seen before but she was concerned by the extent of the eczema and that it was visibly weeping. She prescribed anti-biotics and a steroid cream. If the pharmacy had not been out of stock of the cream, I might have followed her advice. But instead I went home and googled the anti-biotic and thrush. Of course it was a no no.

The following day I ate refined sugar for the first time in over a week at 50th Birthday party. No alcohol, no wheat or canapés, only the chocolate mousse. It was delicious. But that night, my inner left forearm was on fire and I couldn't bear the pain and itching. I've never experienced anything like it.

From then on I've kept a food diary and any reactions I get. I immediately cut out all refined sugar. And wheat. And then 2 weeks later I'd eliminated all fruit. Smoked meat and smoke fish caused minor flareups. But on the whole a diet of vegetables, salad, pulses and some freshly cooked meat has been fine.

I've introduced virgin raw coconut oil, probiotics and milk thistle. I do still drink some caffeine. But overall my rashes are getting better.

I went back to the GP on Friday 7th Nov and she was very impressed and supportive of my approach. She thought my diet was well balanced. Though she wanted me to eat more carbs. I'm mainly using pulses for carb plus some oats. I have lost some weight but 9 lbs over 10 weeks (since cutting cakes/cookies) doesn't seem too severe. I needed to lose up to 14lbs anyway.

I left feeling so relieved and glad to have also found a sympathetic GP at last. Who doesn't think I'm a crack pot in my dietary approach.

I now conclude that the rashes were the result of intense candida die-off from simply cutting sugary carbs. It will be a while before I start on any anti-fungal regime. I need to feel much better to cope with that. I've also had mild cold symptoms - sneezes, tingling in neck glands, sore tongue. But they never develop into an infection, so I think they must be part of die off too.

I have suffered with candida overgrowth for 11 years now. And this has been exacerbated by my hormone imbalance which is finally under control thanks to Natpro. It was the only way I could conquer the sugar/carb cravings. Now I hope to get this itching cleared up. I know it will take up to a year. But hopefully this time I will make it.
Jan 16, 2015
 Natasha
by: Susie

Thanks so much for your updates, Natasha. They are so helpful and encouraging to keep going.

I found it fascinating you saying you weren't depressed cause you were able to feel joy for others. That's exactly how it is for me, and has been for the previous two years while taking supps for pyroluria and treating high copper. I've been absolutely emotionally exhausted by the whole deal and suicidal quite often, but still wanting the best and feeling happy for others, though I'm so paranoid often that it's easier to not see people. But then a good day comes along, and the sun shines, and I feel I'm making progress ... and then the shutters come down. The shutters have been up a little more lately but you know what it's like when your symptoms worsen - feels like it's gonna be dark forever.

I know in my gut I'm on the right track with these but the thoughts and feelings are so hardcore that I need all the support I can get. And you know how lacking that often is. So thank you, and to Wray for your work on this site. I don't think I would have had the guts to keep on with the progesterone if it wasn't here.
May 21, 2015
 Natasha
by: Heather

I feel like I've been left hanging! How are you doing now? I really hope things have improved for you.
May 22, 2015
 thanks for keeping in touch
by: Natasha (UK)

Hello, Susie and Heather,

and everyone else who is reading. Thank you.

Susie I never received notification that you had posted in January or I would have responded then. So glad to be of help and thank you for letting me know. And Heather, sorry to have left you hanging.

So back to Nov last year, all was working really well until the past came back to bite me.

Have any of you read Christiane Northrup's book, The Wisdom of the Menopause? Not only do we have to take care of our physical bodies but also this is a time of cleaning out those mental closets. And I had an unexpected emotional set back.

In a nutshell meeting a girl I was at school with and seeing how differently our lives turned out. And despite my intelligence telling me that I'm fine, my heart grieved for what might have been, particularly over never had children. So, all the good work went out of the window. It was like a grip freezing me. And with very little personal support, all I could do was put one foot in front of another for many months. Work was very busy and I also looked after an elderly relative over Xmas. And kept going.

But there is good news. Grief eventually lifts. My relative has made a wonderful recovery for an 86 year old. And my work has gone very well.

Around March I got back on track with Natpro. And now I always have plenty in stock. I swear by it.

And I also discovered how important vitamin D is. I know Wray is very concerned that we don't have enough. Well the old school friend is also a GP and she too recommended vitamin D and at a higher dose than is often recommended. at 2000iu. So for only the last 3 weeks, I've been on that dose. And slowly I'm noticing a change to my sugar cravings.

When I fell off the wagon, I went back to plenty of sugary carbs and extra weight. Resuming Natpro is great for feeling stronger and helping me feel less weepy. But not so good with sugar cravings. Vitamin D seems to be the key.

I'll check back in here in another month. I need to really get back on track. I still suffered with exhaustion. And lack of motivation at times. I'm learning to be kinder to myself. To look for silly fun things and laugh more. I do recommend it. If you can find people who can do that with you, it really helps.

PS for Susie. I do believe that suicidal thoughts are not soley linked with depression, though many medics will tell you that. For me, its about wanting control in my life when so much is beyond me. There is a myth that if we can have anything we want and its in our control. I don't believe that. But I do believe that we can do the best we can for ourselves and that is what I'm learning to do better.

I also heard an interesting thought - maybe thoughts of suicide are about change. They indicate end of one chapter in life and rather than wanting life to end, its the wish for something new.

Do please contribute if you wish. And it means alot that you both commented. :D
May 25, 2015
 Thanks for keeping in touch
by: Joy

Hi Natasha

For me progesterone therapy is a life-long thing, the return of adverse symptoms is simply not worth it if I stop or forget to use it. I am pleased to read just how progesterone has helped you and of course, using it correctly is key. I am also pleased that you made the switch to Natpro, it is the best. Wray has mentioned Vitamin D and just how vital it is, but I feel 2000iu's per day is still not enough, I take 5000iu's per day. You will feel so much better if you increase and please do not forget to take magnesium which is an important co-factor and helps vitamin D work optimally.

Stress is a killer and destroys both progesterone and vitamin D, both must be increased during stressful times. Once the stressful period has eased and you feel better you can reduce the amount used. If you are still suffering from exhaustion, did you have a test for Insulin Resistance as Wray suggested?

May your health continue to improve.
Oct 09, 2015
 October update
by: Natasha (UK)

I'm making this update to remind us all that our bodies are constantly changing during this time. And how we manage this change also needs to keep changing. So what worked either last year or even a few months ago, might not work now.

What threw me after my last update was a 95 day gap between periods. I kept expecting one with each set of PMS symptoms but nothing happened. And during this time my use of the Progesterone cream became erratic. And basically, I wasn't using enough.

I was so busy with work and getting through each day, that life became a huge struggle. My home was in a mess and my diet was poor. High in carbs and low in variety.

When worked stopped for the summer, I started using the cream more regularly around August. And I've continued to take Vit D daily. Not in the super doses recommended here. Purely because I'm a cautious person. But I did take 2000iu for 3 months and now I take 1000iu.

I've also returned to eating a healthy diet. And now I walk every day for 40 mins. Not along the streets but in a lovely local park which is uplifting, even on the cold grey days. I'm in week 5 of the walks and my physical strength is returning. And that is exciting too. But... there is always a but.

When things fell apart last November 2014 and when my diet and ability to look after myself slipped back to bad ways, my weight crept back up. For me, those extra 14lbs feel like twice this amount. And I hate seeing my middle aged body.

As I have no back-up medical help, its all down to the internet and what to believe. Last year, as soon as I was back on the Progesterone cream, my sugar cravings subsided and I was really able to cut back on carbs. And I slowly lost about a 1lb a week and I got back to a weight that was fine. It was 7lb over my younger weight but I felt so much better. Even sexy again.

This year, the routine from last year is not working. I've been eating well for about 2 months. Though probably still too many carbs. And walking daily for 5 weeks, and I haven't lost 1lb. I tried to buy clothes yesterday but the sight of my body in the changing rooms was too hard to bear.

I've even been doubting the Progesterone cream and reading the discussions on here. And then this morning I found this piece of information on site about skin changes during perimenopause.

A doctor Diana Howard says that oestrogen stimulates FAT DEPOSITS all over the female body as oestrogen levels drop. Often concentrated on abdomen, buttocks and thighs. And a loss of fat in face area and around breasts causing skin to sag.

And there for me is the proof. Its not progesterone that is making me fat. So I need to use more for a while to get my body back in shape. And think too, about insulin resistance.

So I hope this helps those who are struggling. And thanks for reading.
Oct 11, 2015
 October Update
by: Joy

Hi Natasha

Thanks for the update, it helps others too. So happy that you have changed your diet, carbs, wheat etc they are really not good for us. I understand that you are a cautious person, but I really do feel that you should increase your Vitamin D3, you will notice a massive difference if you do.

As for your comment about progesterone NOT causing weight gain ... whoop whoop, if only others would see and understand that too. Progesterone is a diuretic, it can’t cause weight gain, yes it will stimulate estrogen if not enough is used and that is where the weight gain problems arise. Estrogen causes weight gain, it is a mitogen causing fat cells to proliferate.

Onwards and upwards Natasha.
Oct 14, 2017
 Update 2 years later
by: Natasha UK

Hello,

I thought I would update on my experiences now 1 year without periods. I am officially post menopause.

Up to the summer of 2016 I was using Natpro and taking Vit D3 regularly. But then everything slipped for 2 reasons. 1) work took over and I couldn't manage to be good about my diet. 2) the exchange rate between the $ and £ started fluctuating rapidly and I was worried I'd not be able to afford Natpro anymore so I stopped. Big mistake.

Fast forward 1 year. I'm exhausted and have serious insomnia and uncomfortable vaginal atrophy. Nearly 3 weeks ago, I saw my GP who recommended either Oestrogen pessaries or cortisone cream. As I wanted neither, I left with nothing and felt very unsupported. She was sympathetic but not interested in discussing anything.

I had some unused Natpro and I immediately started applying to my vaginal/perineum area and like magic, the dreadful discomfort started easing. And I'm back taking Vit D3 and Natpro regularly again.

But I'm also trying a small amount of Estriol cream once a day. I've only taken it for 5 days and already I have mild oestrogen dominance: Breast tenderness, water retention/bloating and a craving for sweet things. I look apple shaped around the middle. :(

I'm going to keep using the Estriol a while longer though and use twice as much progesterone as oestrogen. If I feel a lot worse, I'll stop the Estriol and stick with progesterone only.

Prior to taking the Estriol, I was recently struggling with low oestrogen symptoms such as dry lips, eyes and tiredness which I didn't have before. So that is why I'm giving it a go.

I'll report back in a few weeks time to let you know how I get on and whether I stick with it or not.

Finally to add, I was so sorry to hear that Wray has now passed away. I truly hope she is at peace. I found her dedication to helping us all so wonderful. And thank you to Joy and others who are keeping this site and resource going. Its the only way I've got through this physical change in my life.
Oct 16, 2017
 Update 2 years later
by: Joy

Hi Natasha

Many thanks for you kind words. Natpro is excellent when inserted in the vagina at night. All women should do this as it is excellent for dryness and inflammation. I am so please that you are finding some relief.

As with advice given by Wray, I do not believe that any women needs to use extra estrogen, it merely adds to adverse symptoms. Wray has given links to read up on this. You are already experiencing some of these symptoms. Insulin resistance has been mentioned a few times, have you been tested for this? Dry lips and eyes are actually caused by too much estrogen. What exactly is your progesteorne:estrogen (E2) level? It is important to know both of these in order to work out the correct ratio between the two hormones. Please consider using progesterone only as you will battle to reach a balance.

Vitamin D3 is vital, what is your level? A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone. I read that you were only taking 1,000iu's per day. That is not nearly enough, nothing less that 5,000ius per day is needed plus the co-factors.

Please read the links given to you by Wray as well as the following:

How to use Progesterone Cream - https://www.progesteronetherapy.com/how-to-use-progesterone-cream.html#axzz2mglwLvMr

Hormone Testing - https://www.progesteronetherapy.com/hormone-testing.html#axzz2og853i1N

Vitamin D3 - http://www.progesterone-info.com/benefits-of-vitamin-d-cholecalciferol.html

Magnesium - http://www.progesterone-info.com/magnesium.html
Oct 29, 2017
 Thank you for the reply
by: Natasha UK

Hi Joy,

Thank you so much for responding to my latest update.

You are of course correct in your analysis of my situation.

I only lasted 7 days on Estriol which I understand is the mildest form of estrogen. I had breast tenderness, bloating, sugar cravings and felt very emotional again, when what I was hoping for was renewed energy and better sleep. So rather than prolong my discomfort and feel worse, I stopped using it.

In the UK, we have a great free primary health care system but we can't always have the tests we would like. My GP practice has always refused to test my hormone levels and if I want those, then I would have to seek a private doctor.

I've always felt better once I've used progesterone cream for about a month. So I'm happy to stick with that and getting better all the time.

I've been taking 2,200 of D3, and when this bottle ends, I will up it to 4000.

I'll check out magnesium too. Thanks for that tip.

And one month of using the progesterone on my 'feminine itching' problem has really worked. I occasionally get a vague urge to scratch but one I can now resist. This is a miracle as far as I'm concerned.

I've had this problem for over 10 years and I was told it was caused by thrush. After all kinds of restrictive diets and increasing iron (my ferritin was very low) it never stopped. And then after the menopause it seemed to get worse. So to finally find relief is wonderful.

Thanks again for maintaining this place so well for all Wray's hard work. I don't know where I'd be without you all.

My heartfelt appreciation and thanks.
Oct 30, 2017
 Thank you for your reply
by: Joy

Hi Natasha

I am pleased that you stopped the estrogen. If your health care can't do your tests, then please consider ordering them online. The Birmingham Hospital - UK and ZRT Labs - USA will run them for you. I really battle to understand why doctors refuse to run the necessary tests! Do remember that it takes 2-6 months of using progesterone before one notices benefits, longer if symptoms are severe.

I urge you to take nothing less than 5,000iu's of Vitamin D3, 4,000iu's is not enough and of course Magnesium and Vitamin K2 with NO soy is so important.

Birmingham Hospital - http://www.cityassays.org.uk/vitamins.html

ZRT Labs - https://store.zrtlab.com/
Aug 04, 2018
 Now I've also got menopausal lips
by: Natasha UK

After my last update in October, I can report that both the Natro and the D3 worked a treat, and my feminine itching totally cleared up. I was delighted and relieved.

Unfortunately, in December, a very close relative of mine went into hospital and passed away. I was with them for that painful period and naturally, my self care was forgotten. And I stopped using any cream.

By January, the itch had returned but even worse than before. And much to my horror, putting Natro on that area of my body burned, like hell. And I stopped using it in that area.

Due to grief, and stress, whilst I maintained my D3 dosage, my application of Natro was sporadic. I kept imagining or wondering if it was burning other parts of my skin.

This summer in the UK, we have a heatwave and as we're not a country prepared for the heat with aircon, I'm suffering and realise that I also have a heat rash. I previously thought it was childhood eczema returned. However the blisters are totally different in appearance.

I visited my GP practice again 3 weeks ago, the nurse examined me and confirmed that whilst unpleasant there is nothing serious to be worried about. I asked her why the Natpro burned my skin and she looked up the properties of Aspern bark and suggested that might be it as it is a relative of aspirin family (salicylate). Another cream I bought, simply to soothe my skin also burned that area and this contained aloe vera which can also sting I was told.

The nurse, with support from a GP prescribed a a mild anti-fungal/steroid cream and recommended antihistamines for the itching. I used this for a week as prescribed, but I'm sure none of you will be surprised to learn that there was no improvement.

During this period, I also tried Sea Buckthorn Oil capsules which have been clinically tested to improve feminine dryness/dry eyes/lips post menopause. This initially seemed to work and then stopped. The dryness on my lips came back badly whilst I was still taking my daily capsule of 1000 whatevers.

So I found the thread on here "Menopausal Lips"and with a fresh supply of Natpro at a higher daily dose plus D3 increased, I'm praying that I see long term improvement. 5 days on, some mild improvement and no stinging on any part of my body, except down below. In fact it is good for the heat rash. And lips are less dry and peeling.

Fingers crossed this slight improvement is not in my mind and real and that it continues to get better.
Aug 08, 2018
 Now I've also got menopausal lips
by: Joy

Hi Natasha

I am pleased to hear that Natpro and D3 helped you. Sorry to hear about the passing of a family member.

Aspen bark can cause some irritation in some people but only 1 or 2 that I know of. It surprises me that you used it before for feminine itching with no problems.

I suggest that you continue and hopefully things will improve for you soon.

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