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Progesterone ruined my life-am I facing hysterectomy now?

by Maria
(Arkansas)

Hello Wray (I don't know if you still check this forum at all or not). My name is Maria and I talked to you a few times on this forum. I was the person with Peripheral Thyroid Resistance who had a very severe Estrogen Dominance and was asking for advice two years ago. Could you please respond if you see this.

I have followed your advice to the T as much as we could possibly afford (including me taking every supplement recommended, DIM, Calcium D-Glucarate, Magnesium, Vitamin D, NAC- you name it), and was on very high doses of progesterone daily for pretty much entire 2 years. This still did not completely resolve all my symptoms like swelling and hot flashes. The highest dose of Progesterone I was on for the last 6 months was literally a jar of Ona's 10% progesterone cream a day (which is over 10000 mg, a horrifying amount). For two years, it was nothing but battling constant hot flashes I never had before, swelling, fibroids that did not bother me before starting on progesterone, I even had a surgery to remove a very large fibroid. I was still having hot flashes a few times a day and steady swelling after waking up each day by 10 lbs at least daily, but I was more or less functioning, albeit barely. Unfortunately, when my husband lost his second job, I was forced to stop Progesterone Cream cold turkey which ended up in me having blood pressure above 200/120 (like what my Grandmother had before she died of a stroke), made me swell from 122 lbs to 140 within less than 3 weeks, made most of my hair fall out, it's basically hell like I have never known it and it continues progressively. I have been off progesterone cream now for a month and there is no end to this nightmare. I continue to progressively swell, none of my clothes fits me anymore (I went from Small to Large size within 20 days), my stomach is severely bloated, my fingernails are peeling, I can't stop having random bleeding and spotting episodes, and have almost constant pelvic pain.

At this point, there is no way back (we cannot afford such amounts of cream as we did before) and there is no way forward even if I manage to find a way and use these enormous amounts of cream as I did before, I still exhibit estrogen dominance, which over time causes gynecological issues, and still causes swelling, pain, and forces me to constantly, every hour on the hour, apply the bloody cream, which never absorbs entirely no matter how long I sit naked in the bathroom, and every morning I still would wake with hair falling out, my breasts hurting and an unrelenting hot flash that doesn't end until I get up extremely early to apply more cream-and so on, and so forth.

We are extremely poor (my husband's entire paycheck used to go to JUST the Progesterone Cream for 2 years in an attempt to cure me from this mysterious Thyroid Resistance I had for 10 years that made me fully disabled and made me lose all my teeth), I was stupidly hoping to fix at least the high estrogen so I could have a fool's chance to one day have a child ( I had years of infertility and a failed pregnancy before), but now I'm 39 and a complete wreck after trying the cream which actually made me much, much worse.

So ultimately I am facing the only choice I can make, considering our income, my condition, and the fact that cream or not, I simply can not stop the Estrogen being dominant-to have my ovaries out, give up the hope to ever have children, because as I assume removing the source of Estrogen entirely is the only way for me to use Progesterone within our budget and actually make it a dominant hormone.

Considering the situation and the amount of pain I am in after diligently following your advice, could you please respond and let me know if there are any other possible sources of estrogen besides the ovaries, are there any abnormalities or estrogen producing tumours I need to know about or look into before I make such a drastic decision, and whether a hysterectomy reduces the amount of progesterone needed to overcome estrogen? It feels like I have an unlimited source of estrogen that never yields and never stops producing it (in fact when I use a lot of progesterone cream, my ovaries ache in what I believe an attempt to make more estrogen, judging by the worsening symptoms. Nobody told us of the huge amounts I will need, and there was never a hint that anyone ever takes such doses, so now I'm trapped. Please respond; thank you very much. Maria

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Nov 30, 2016
 Progesterone ruined my life-am i facing hysterectomy now?
by: Anonymous

OMG I can't believe that you used so much progesterone cream, that is scary. Do you realise that advice given by Wray is based on Natpro progesterone cream which is a 3.33% and certainly not a 10%. I personally know a few ladies who have used a 10% cream with terrible consequences. I would contact the makers of Onas cream and discuss with them. They need to explain this to you. Wow!!!
Nov 30, 2016
 Progesterone ruined my life-am i facing hysterectomy now?
by: Joy

Hi Maria

Wray retired about 2/3 years ago now. But I am totally shocked at the amount of cream that you have been using. Let me put it this way. The late Dr Kittie Dalton used to administer 2400mg of progesterone to her patients who suffered severe PND and psychotic type symptoms, and this is while in hospital. Have you possibly made an error and mean 1 000mg and NOT 10 000mg? This worries me terribly. When Wray advises to use 200mg for example, she means a 3.33% cream not a 10% cream. She always advises if the cream is different to adjust amount used accordingly. Progesterone if used correctly will certainly help with Estrogen Dominance, it certainly helped me and thousands more. It is not an overnight fix and can take 2-6 months before progesterone becomes the dominant hormone.

A female's ovaries are the main source of natural estrogen, but it is also made in the brain. However, there are well over 100 estrogen mimics in our environment as it is, there would be no need to take more which would be a drug. Please read the Cancer page...

https://www.progesteronetherapy.com/faq-cancer.html

I have never had to advise on anyone who has used so much progesterone before and I am quite sure that Wray would be just as shocked as I am. Perhaps that unthinkable amount of progesterone has had an opposite effect.

I wish that I could help you more, but I really am shocked. Have you discussed this with the makers of the cream?

Take care.
Nov 30, 2016
 you deserve an answer
by: Lauren

Maria,

My heart hurts for you. NO ONE should have to go through this crap. You were just following what the people 'in charge' on here told you to do.

The fact that no one on here can give you an explanation to why this is happening to you is not ok, at all.

I made the HUGE mistake of coming on here and listening/reading all this bull about progesterone cream like it's some sort of godsend, but it ruins people's lives.

You CANNOT use this stuff without seeing a doctor. You and I have both learned it the hard way.

Please find a natural doc to help you, or a hormonal doctor. DO NOT read anymore online advice.
Nov 30, 2016
 Progesterone ruined my life-am I facing a hysterectomy now?
by: RJ

Hello Maria!
I too am hoping you made a typo. I think before anyone can advise you you should write back and let us know how much you were actually taking each day.
God Bless!
RJ
Nov 30, 2016
 Other sources of estrogen
by: Mel

There are many sources of estrogen besides the ovaries. Many foods that we eat (or shouldn't eat) have substances in them that mimic estrogen in the body; basically any non-whole food mimics estrogen or causes estrogen to increase. Soy is a big one to stay away from.

Household cleaners, makeup, perfume, deoderant, etc. all produce/mimic estrogen.

Fat holds estrogen in it,so if you are overweight, the excess fat in your body only makes the estrogen dominance worse.

Do a Google search for other sources of estrogen and you'll find a wealth of information.

I'm sorry you are going through such a horrible experience. I hope you can find the solution and peace you need.
Dec 01, 2016
 Progesterone ruined my life-am i facing hysterectomy now?
by: Laura

Maria, you state you were using about one jar per day of Ona's 10% cream for the past 6 months. That 4 oz jar of cream contains 11,360mg of progesterone which would amount to roughly $10,000USD total spent during those 6 months. This whole scenario is very disturbing. I am sorry you are suffering so much. My doctor tested my iodine along with my estrogen a few months ago. The estrogen came back high and iodine was low. I supplemented with iodine for about six months and my iodine came up and estrogen went down. I also supplement with many vitamins/ minerals and bio-identical progesterone. I also have a reverse T3 (thyroid) issue and supplement with prescription T3. I have no idea if this info helps you in any way but it seems you have a lot going and hopefully you can find a doctor to step back and look at the big picture. I had many issues and it took many baby steps and a number of years to bring me right again. I wish you all the best.
Dec 01, 2016
 Progesterone ruined my life-am I facing a hysterectomy now?
by: RJ

Hello Lauren!
Nay-sayers really disturb me and it's hard for me to keep quiet. If progesterone did not work for you and this site is just a line of "bull" my advice for you is stay off it. You tell everyone how bad it is but leave out the important factors; like how much did you take, was it natural, what other estrogen mimics were you subjected to, are you overweight, what is your diet like, what is your mineral and amino acid panel like, what is your vitamin D levels like...need I go on?

I think you get my message. Maybe you didn't follow the protocol, maybe you didn't do a lot of things while on progesterone, but fail to tell all the others here of those failures. Again, like I have told so many others who come on here and bash a pro-progesterone site, either you just want to argue and fight with others or you still have not found an answer to your ills. If the natural doctor helped you with your problems then great, stay with them and stay off here. You advise Maria to quit reading this site and/or online information...so why are you here. Were you using 10,000 mg a day...please link the advice on here where Wray states someone should take that much. Nobody, ever, ever, one more time, ever, said that anyone should take 10,000 mg a day on this site...period.

So not only do you not know what you are talking about with regards to progesterone, but you are misinformed by your apparent lack of reading the material within this site. Had you read this site thoroughly and all the complaints everyone has that comes to this site, because their doctors had NO answers or help for them you would realize the error you just made with your response to Maria.

Please, to those reading Lauren's post, do your own research and come to your own conclusions. There is a wealth of information on Wray's site, not only about progesterone but just being healthy and trying to overcome the hormonal imbalances we women and men suffer from.

Mal, tell Wray hello for me and send her much love from the midwest!!
God Bless!
RJ

Many thanks RJ, as you know she always greatly values your contributions. I'll give her the message! Mal
Dec 02, 2016
 progesterone ruined life
by: Anonymous

I completely agree with RJ. Why do people come here, criticize it and yet, keep coming back to this website? Obviously there are issues that have not been resolved in the person who was so critical of this site. No disrespect, but I dare say that they need progesterone more than ever.

I feel so sorry that Maria went through this nightmare, but quite frankly you can't blame Ona's cream or any other cream. It's up to the individual to read the instructions and what the bottle contains, etc. Ona's cream states clearly that one pump of the 10% equals 100mg. - or 1/4 tsp. equal 125mg. Using an entire bottle daily of any progesterone cream could cause issues.

We know that progesterone in high amounts is safe, but 10,000mg., could not possibly be right. I hope Maria will get this sorted out. It appears that there are other issues you are dealing with, such as thyroid. Please check your iodine levels, which is usually the cause of low thyroid.

I hope all will be resolved soon! Despite this nightmare you've been through, once you get back to normal, look into progesterone properly.
Dec 02, 2016
 Progesterone ruined my life-am I facing a hysterectomy now?
by: Laura

Lauren--you are doing everyone a disservice by making statements that are just plain untrue and it sounds like you are trying to blame someone else for your own issues. I hope you eventually find what works for you and wish you the best in doing so. This is a forum where people write in with their experiences to help each other. It is backed with many published medical papers for people to peruse. No one has ever told anyone they have to do anything. What I have gotten from this site is that it is for informational purposes only.

I went back to Maria's previous posts and she states she had all these terrible symptoms before using progesterone due to her awful thyroid resistance and many other issues/conditions she has. She was already using 380mg at the time (March 18) she wrote in and asked Wray what to do. Wray's response to her was: "I wish I could advise you on how much progesterone you would need but I can't." On March 19, Maria states she's on 500mg, on April 14, she's now on 900mg. On April 15, Wray responds by saying" "I really don't think raising the progesterone endlessly is going to be the answer." Now, she's on 10,000mg. I do agree with you that Maria should see a doctor but by no means did she come to using more than 10,000mg/day of progesterone by the "people in charge" of this site. It is by her own free will.
Dec 02, 2016
 there is nothing wrong with progesterone cream
by: Maria

No no no no no. Please understand I am not trying to say ANYTHING bad about the website. Or anything bad or negative about anyone on here at all. Information on here is CORRECT, and I read a lot of research here, other wise I would not say repeatedly that progesterone helps me but only at very large doses. If this is unclear, I will repeat/rephrase this. It helps me but at very, very large doses. The high blood pressure, extreme swelling, other extreme problems start when I STOP it.

I am not on it right now, and I'm very, very sick. Much more than I ever was on progesterone. It's estrogen that causes me to be so sick, but its rise is triggered by progesterone application.

We simply can't afford large doses as I'm sure most of people here won't be able to. There is nothing wrong with the specific progesterone we buy-it's great, just stronger and cheaper for the amount again, we are poor so we also need to eat.

Regarding very large doses: first of all, yes, Wray has mentioned doses up to 4000 mg used before. She and others have communicated clearly that there is no telling how much each person needs, depending on sickness, environment, age, etc. Depending on symptoms.

She also reviewed my tests and said that I have the highest Estrogen to Progesterone ratio she has seen. I make enormous amounts of Estrogen and that's what I was asking about-besides the known factors (ovaries, brain as you are saying, environmental estrogens) are there any other estrogen-related abnormalities I should know about? I research a lot, but when I try to research this, nothing relevant comes up besides estrogen dominance advice. We did not come up with this large dose in one day-it took almost two years to raise to this dose because severity of negative symptoms on 2400mg and the like was unendurable.

Wray mentioned to me that my Thyroid Resistance might be at least partially caused by very high Estrogen. She seems to be right, as progesterone reduces swelling and hair loss and improves many other things. The higher the dose I use, the BETTER I get. But why would somebody make so much estrogen in the first place? We don't know where to look, and no, we can't afford a "good doctor". We are in rural Arkansas and there are no good doctors, and we have no resources to go to other states for help-no money, no transportation, etc.

I didn't know that Wray retired. She gave us a wealth of information and again, I take every single supplement she recommended and a lot of them helped in their own way. I take Vit D (5000 iu) Vit C 2000 mg broken into a few doses, Calcium Glucarate 500 mg 5 times a day with a glass of water, DIM 100mg 5 times a day as well with something that has fat in it, NAC 1000 mg twice a day, Taurine 2000 mg at night, Zinc 50 mg Biotin and Vit B1 and use Magnesium oil and take Magnesium pills so amount to about 800 mg a day, and a Probiotic. The ONLY thing we could not afford was a special diet, because when you have no car and all your money goes toward Thyroid medication and supplements it is not possible. Plus I have no teeth due to prolonged illness and no denture due to me needing bone grafts and us having no money so I'm limited to what I can eat. I cook and limit carbs, that's all I can do. I was 122 lbs before extreme swelling started.

I had reservations mentioning what was the largest dose I used for this particular reason. There is no proper healthcare where I live,NO help for the poor-the only clinic for the poor turned me down because of my weird thyroid condition, I cannot reach any hormone savvy doctors (the last one I had was in San Francisco), otherwise yes, we would HAVE GONE TO THE DOCTOR. I have been sick/disabled for over 10 years so please do not blame a person who was advised to do a certain thing for doing a certain thing. I was asking what other factors can make estrogen go so high and make it so hard to overcome? Tumours? Cysts? Can Epstein Barr contribute (I have the virus since childhood)? Can many years of being on Ortho Evra patch contribute if that was over 10 years ago? To make so much Estrogen, there has got to be a reason. Does it have to be an ongoing reason, and how can we find out what it is?
Dec 02, 2016
 forgot to mention
by: Maria

Forgot to say I never use sunscreen. Since I started Vit D I stopped burning in the sun so I haven't used it for 4+ years. I only use non-perfumed soap and deodorant, tried to avoid it but it's not possible in our hot climate. We have a water filter in the fridge, not sure if it takes care of anything in water, probably not. Thank you very much for the cancer page link, I'm reading.
Dec 02, 2016
 My comment was deleted?
by: Anonymous

I tried to add a comment here but when I checked later, my comment disappeared. I tried again, and the same happened again. Is this normal? There was nothing inappropriate in the comment. Is it a bug? Once again, I'm in no way blaming anyone - it's high estrogen that's making me so sick, and there is nothing wrong with the cream - something is wrong with me that I need such doses.

This website is great, or I would not have followed advice on it. No, I was told many times that dose is very individual and Wray has mentioned higher doses (around 4000 mg), she even said that with severity of my condition nobody knows how much I would need. She told me she has never seen estrogen levels as high as mine. Progesterone cream makes me feel much better, stopping it nearly killed me, but we can't afford this dosage and I want to know the reason why I need such high doses.

I feel like most people did not read what I was saying, or maybe I was unclear, I'm sorry if that's the case. Those who talk about doses up to 2400 mg - I'm sick as a dog on these doses. Unless I'm on a very, very high dose, I have severe swelling, rapid hair loss, blood pressure through the roof, etc. If I could stay on lower doses, of course I would, and trust me ladies, I tried.
Dec 05, 2016
 Laurens comment
by: Anonymous

So this forum is only for people who agree with RJ? It appears that anyone who says Progesterone doesnt work for them is a no good pathetic naysayer who shouldn't be on here? Seriously, how can you speak to people like that? People are all made differently and all respond to progesterone differently so for you to try to negate anything anyone else says by abusing them verbally is not a bad reflection in them but in you.

Far out! Your verbal tirade just goes to show that your progesterone is NOT working for you. Isn't it meant to mellow you out and make you nicer? Maybe this forum should have a disclaimer and warning for everyone "IF YOU HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION TO OURS OR YOU FIND PROGESTERONE DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU THEN DON'T COME ON HERE AND DON'T ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT BECAUSE YOU ARE 100% WRONG. WE ARE RIGHT. IF YOU DO COME ON HERE THEN EXPECT A MOUTHFUL. WE HAVE NO ROOM FOR ANYONE WHO THIS SUPPLEMENT HASN'T WORKED FOR" That should probably cover it?

Good luck anyone who has problems with progesterone. Just remember... Its your body. Any just because this site tells you that you are wrong and it couldn't be the progesterone - don't believe everything they say.

To the verbal abusers - get a life! The sups obviously aren't working for you. Which negates the very things you wish to advocate.

>>>

NOTE from webmaster...

Dear Anonymous, thank you for sharing your views. Please bear in mind that this site seeks to provide a platform for the exchange and dissemination of information, experiences and ideas relating to progesterone therapy. The site itself has no agenda to indoctrinate and its publishing policy is unrestricted by censorship seeking rather to allow for the free flow of fact and opinion. All submissions and comments made are those of private individuals.
Dec 05, 2016
 Progesterone ruined my life-am I facing a hysterectomy now?
by: Laura

So, to get back to Maria's original post...Maria, have any of your doctors in the past ever tried to block your extreme estrogen dominance with an estrogen-blocking drug? I know you say you have no money to see doctors, etc but after reading all of your posts it seems you have tried EVERYTHING and have spent a lot of time and money in the past to relieve very, very extreme estrogen dominance the natural way by using high amounts of progesterone cream and many vitamins, etc and unfortunately, while it seems to work for you at extreme high amounts, it's hard for you to stay on that high amount due to cost which is understandable. I certainly am not here suggesting prescription drugs is the answer and I have no idea how much that cost would be for you but I was just wondering if this has ever come up as an option. I know there are these medicines out there as my mother-in-law was on one for many years. It was medically needed for her. I hope you find an answer for your issues and that it comes soon as it sounds like you are really suffering. I am extremely thankful for this website and all the suggestions, articles and experiences of others. I feel blessed that I was able to use the abundance of information on this site in a way to get my health back using progesterone cream and if nothing else, I am glad it has provided an outlet for me and for you to share your story. I really hope you get better soon.
Dec 05, 2016
 Progesterone ruined my life-am I facing a hysterectomy now?
by: RJ

Hello Maria!
Well you have given us some good information. I don't think anyone feels you are saying negative things about the site. But your title did say progesterone ruined your life. The responses have been directed at the nay-sayers.

I understand the cost issue. Most of us suffer with that too. What I see is an extreme level of stress and that is going to affect everything in your body. As for finding a doctor. I have no faith in them. The good ones are few and far between and you too are like us in a rural area. If you are on Medicaid the government will pay for you to go to a doctor and have a full blood panel performed. Make an appointment and request it, don't let them tell you you don't need it....it's your health. Or better yet look for a lab in your area that provides financial assistance and you can find labs that you pay a small fee to have them call in a blood panel. You won't need a doctor to call in the test for you. Sites like health-tests-direct.com

After reading everything you have said, I am not sure a hysterectomy will help solve all your ills. Remember your body still makes estrogen even when the ovaries shut down naturally. Think about all the women, who after menopause, get cancer. Estrogen is the drive in cancer. As a society we are inundated with estrogen mimics and don't forget what stress does to the body. The other thing I thought is maybe your D level is low. Even though you are taking 5,000 units a day your level may be below 20 and that amount won't help bring you up. My mother is at 17 and she takes 10,000 units a day and it still hasn't helped, so we are increasing it again. And if you are not taking K2 with vitamin D you are asking for trouble with calcium buildup in areas it shouldn't buildup. But again those are just small suggestions. Have you checked your pituitary gland and your prolactin levels? Tumors on the pituitary cause a lot of what you are suffering from. Gut health is huge too. All diseases start in the gut and if your gut is unhealthy you can take all the supplements you want each day and they will not be absorbed.

I will send along some sites that have helped me and others. I can only wish you the best of luck. Keep researching, you will find an answer. But you have to be your own advocate. Nobody out there is going to do the research and investigation like you will. It will be timely and at times very frustrating and confusing. But stick with it and the puzzle pieces will come together.
God Bless! RJ

http://www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/issue/11-80-raw-food-diet

thyroidpharmacist.com

raypeat.com

bodyecology.com
Jan 03, 2017
 Cannot do raw diet
by: Maria

I can not eat many foods because I lost all my teeth at 35 (I am now 39). I have no denture because the dentist who decided the it's a good idea to pull out all my remaining teeth did not tell me I had very low bone mass in my jaws, and denture would not hold without implants and bone grafts. Which we can't afford. It's a nightmare that hurts to even talk about. Due to a long disease, my teeth began to rot away. When I lived in San Francisco, there was a free clinic that always helped me keep my teeth. In this horrible place, there is no help at all. We are still paying out a loan for them pulling out my teeth. We can't ever afford one for bone grafts. So no raw foods, please. And I can't afford the keto diet. We have no car and depend on rare trips to Wal-Mart from husband's father. We can't pick and choose what we eat most days, and progesterone is costing us a fortune.
Jan 06, 2017
 ?Water?, Airborne, Meds, Foods?
by: Duke

I am a user of Progesterone for about three months now and I believe I will have quite a positive story to tell in a few more months. However, to the point of the original post: If it were me and I was living in that part of the country I would have to say it has to be something you are ingesting or coming into contact via an airborne route. My first thought is the water. We all know that levels of estrogen are constantly rising in our water supplies and the frig filter WILL NOT filter that out. Remember that you drink AND bathe in it so you would be absorbing it through your skin. There are many chemicals in our water that could cause problems biologically once ingested. There can also be a lot of chemicals in our air supply especially if we are near any manufacturing and/or chemical manufacturing facilities The only other possibility is medications and food. There could also be a combination of the above. I would carefully check it out. Just my two cents. Sure hope and pray your get better!
Jan 12, 2017
 My disease started years ago
by: Maria

My illness and extreme swelling actually started years ago when I lived in San Francisco and I know their pollution regulations are more strict in CA. But yes, we do live a walking distance from a medical waste disposal plant (Clean Harbours) and we have mold in the house as we just discovered recently. (I had to throw out a lot of moldy clothes). All I could do is to clean our part of the house all the time and we bought a dehumidifier for our room, but the owners of the house are my husband's parents, they don't want to deal with the mold because their part of the house is dry. We have no vent in our shower adjacent to our room, and the roof is leaking on this side of the house, but again, we live here rent free and can't demand anything. Same with water. Just starting to ask about the quality of water makes everybody here go into an injured ego mode for some reason (you don't like it in Arkansas, you get out of here) so I can't say anything. Mold does make me sicker (my sinuses bleed now and this wasn't an issue before). Don't know what to do. Just to add to this, my husband's family is also very ill (his mother is bedridden), most of the locals here are extremely sick too (heart attacks, diabetes, strokes, autoimmune diseases, MS, you name it). So I agree about the water and the chemicals, but what can I do? No money =no solutions.
Jan 16, 2017
 Maria
by: Anonymous

Somehow if you can get your calcium and your pth (parathyroid hormone) levels checked at the same time there may be an answer. I don't know, kind of going by the fact that your jaw is losing bone and you've had to have your teeth removed.

Anyway. It might show you something. You'd have to learn to see what the levels indicated. It's a touch and go with doctors that don't want to see a problem, or maybe don't know how to read the levels right....hah!

But good luck to you.
May 14, 2017
 Maria
by: Anonymous

How are you doing lately?

Have you had any respite from any of your symptoms?

So sorry this is happening to you.
Jan 25, 2018
 Extremely high DHEA-S and Testosterone
by: Maria

Hello, it has been awhile, I'm sorry. I am still on progesterone and at this point I'm pretty much going completely bald. I have severe insomnia and swelling in addition, plus a huge giant stomach. I tried reducing progesterone and even dropping it altogether, which spiked my blood pressure (top one above 220) and nearly killed me. We scraped up for saliva tests and my DHEAS and Testosterone came back crazy high, as did Progesterone (ZRT Labs says they are testing Free levels).

Estradiol 3.0 1.3-3.3 pg/mL Premenopausal (Luteal)
Progesterone 5299923 H (200-3000 pg/mL Topical, Troche, Vag Pg (10-30mg)
Ratio: Pg/E2 1766641 H Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/mL
Testosterone 2077 H 16-55 pg/mL (Age Dependent)
DHEAS 74.3 H 2-23 ng/mL (Age Dependent)
Cortisol 2.3 L 3.7-9.5 ng/mL (morning)
Cortisol 1.5 1.2-3.0 ng/mL (noon)
Cortisol 5.2 H 0.6-1.9 ng/mL (evening)
Cortisol 2.2 H 0.4-1.0 ng/mL (night)

So it looks like high DHEA-S and Testosterone are killing me. I can only assume that Progesterone is converting into DHEA and DHEA is converting into Testosterone. I'm pretty much trapped because when I tried reducing Progesterone the symptoms accelerated. Raising it seems to help but financially it's impossible, I'm on extremely high dose (I don't want to mention how much to avoid people getting angry at me) and we can't afford to go any higher. I still have hot flashes throughout the day, and it takes enormous amounts of progesterone to stop them. I don't know why this is happening to me. I'm honestly afraid to take these tests to my gynecologist because he has refused to help me with my symptoms many times before and always suggests to cut "everything out". He isn't happy with me using Progesterone in the first place and always tries to blame it for everything happening to me. He even refused to give me something to control high estrogen which is how all of this started. We have no access to a hormone specialist and honestly, even "cutting everything out" probably will not help because it looks like it's a conversion or an adrenal issue (or PCOS? I don't know anymore)

I was diagnosed with Insulin resistance ages ago, and I'm trying to cut all carbs now but it's nigh impossible considering our limitations. Hair loss is extreme, I will probably lose all of it within a couple of weeks the way things are going. I don't know what to do anymore.

Aug 06, 2023
 Update
by: Anonymous

Maria - did you ever sort this out - This proves the importance of bloods at all times. Horrifying readings! I hope you are ok x
Dec 25, 2023
 Update?
by: Anonymous

I hope and pray something has improved or there was an epiphany. I want to add here, the liver and the gut are both very important for estrogen detox. Liver needs high amounts to protein to properly detox and the gut requires fibres to eliminate and carry out the used estrogen metabolites. Judging by what you said about your diet, your estrogen is most likely circulating back into your body. You have to be pooping regularly and maybe use raw carrots to help carry it out of intestines. But the liver is a big one and if it doesn’t work properly, you are back at square one. One usually needs to take a break from progesterone or else the liver starts eliminating progesterone also. After a break, one will notice progesterone starts to work better again. My guess is that at the high doses, your liver is discarding it. And because there’s no detox of the estrogen out of the body, you have to up the progesterone to even feel a sliver of relief. So if it was me, i’d do everything to try to eliminate estrogen metabolites. The person above who mentioned calcium and parathyoid is on the right track. Adrenal support would be needed as high cortisol will eat away at bone. Theanine? Check prolactin as high prolactin will keep estrogen high. Sometimes a pituitary tumor will keep prolactin raised. An MRI and blood test would be needed. B6, theanine, tyrosine would help lower prolactin. I hope something here will help. So those are the big ones, thyroid, liver, gut and pituitary…
Dec 25, 2023
 update?
by: Anonymous

I forgot to add, DIM can actually become estrogenic. It converts bad estrogen to good estrogen but if you are estrogen dominant, you still remain estrogen dominant while using it. I got hot flashes while using it. Calcium D glucarate is good but even that can't be used in high doses cause it does eliminate ALL steroid hormones, including progesterone.

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