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Please help me out hormone problems

by Christopher
(London)

Hi Wray, my name is Christopher male 28 uk. I really need some help I am totally stuck. This is a horrible story so here goes.

About 2003 I was doing some weight training products (legal) and had some stress, I pushed myself too far. I noticed just before I had what seems to be an adrenal crash a real increase in estrogen feeling. Suddenly my hormones shot everywhere and I had this full feeling in my breast, like ducts were full, I was jumpy, full of adrenalin and couldn't sleep.

Things really started improved just the ducts were emptying and I got less jumpy, symptoms imroved until I used a shampoo called Nizoral which has hormonal effects on estrogen and testosterone (I read after). Suddenly all my recovery was lost, libido loss, hot tingling, tense could not sleep, I panicked and started buying natural anti estrogen. They helped for a few days but suddenly they caused a massive flow of uncomfortable almost adrenalin feeling, very extreme, I panicked more and more. Suddenly the odd feeling in my breast got worse and worse, the more I tried to fix it the worse it got. I asked my Dr and he slammed his hand on the table and said "there is nothing wrong with you", I got referred to a physiologist who also said I was mentally fine, my Dr didn't care though.

I decided to battle on alone, but everything I tried mainly nutural anti-estrogens and testerone boaster caused more build up in the breast area and suddenly I had a tightness in the throat.

After this I saw more Drs who again ignored the breast problems and then said the tightness in the throat didn't make sense.

It became apparent to me that the problem must be the thyroid. I bought some nutural thyroid products and sure enough it got a reaction. I soon learnt however that no thyroid product could help, most reactions were negative, no matter how I push the thyroid it just caused a horrible reaction. I was so desperate by now I just keep pushing the thyroid hoping eventually I turn the corner. Eventually I pushed things too far and I caused an adrenal crash in 2005. From here I still had the full breast feeling but suddenly I had probably caused a thyroid upset and badly knocked my adrenl gland. I got extremely wired, I reacted negatively to everything, I was totally stuck now.

Nothing has changed since for 5 years I've been stuck. Everyday I am totally wired, my thyroid did swell. I have been on extrme detox, adrenal support problems, some dr's have tried to help but nothing worked. The only slight relief I got was from a cortisol blocker, which took the edge off the tension (even though my costirol has not been high, more high normal).

The only product that really really helped was agnus castus, some how it started to get the thyroid working, the full duct feeling in my breasts started to reverse, everyday I improved, it seemed to inhibit the adrenalin rush feeling. It couldn't get rid of the tighness in the throat feeling but it was slightly bit by bit. One day it just stopped working, like my body had found it out. Just before it stopped working I was getting estrogen reactions e.g. reacting to chemicals.

My blood tests have been almost perfect which is so unbelievably frustrating:

Testosterone 350, 1107 (400-1200) low
Estradiol 0.1, 0.3 (0.5 to1.5) low
Cortisol morning 5.7 (3-8) normal
Cortisol night 0.1, 0.3 (0.5-1.5) low
Progesterone 10 (25-100) low
DHEA 3.5 range (3-10) normal
Adrenalin 35 and 59 range (35-165)
Nor-adrenaline 401 and 469 range (165-469)
TSH 1.7. 1.1, 2.2 range (0.4- 4.0)
Prolactin 250 range (53-360) high

Some electronic hormone tests have shown imbalances on: Estrogen, Progesterone, oxytocin, prolactin, noradrenalin.

The best system tests have show: adrenalin, noradrenalin (always unbalanced), but only sometimes showed progesterone and estrgoen unbalanced.

I know this is long but I really feel I don't have an adrenal or thyroid problem, more that I'm stuck in a cycle feedback loops, e.g. pregesterone get me wired, and dhea gets me wired and I get loads of side effects.

I tried your progesterone starting last week I am getting an impact in the breast area, but I'm so overwelmed with symptoms, I don't feel its able to control the thyroid swelling and hyper feeling. When I upped the dose I get too much cortisol it feels sometimes I need a cortisol blocker just to take the edge off. Since I had the adrenal crash 2005 the side effects get so extreme that it appears to force my adrnealin/cortisol up and in turn my throid swells more, my breast gets more full.

I tried half a teaspoon in the morning and and evening I did ok, I got a really good reaction Thursday morning but it felt like my body overwehelmed it and counter acted with more hyperactivity and thyroid swelling, I tried upping the dose couldn't sleep, totally wired again. I was worried that I was just upping my cortisol with too much progesterone.

Does my problem sound like estrogen dominance? Even though estrogen has not shown to be high (it feels sky high), I can't believe I'm so wired and thyorid problems yet blood/saliva tests show almost nothing.

I've been on an intensive vitamin program and can say I got zero benifit even after a year of vit c, b's, b12, Vit E, DIM, TMG.

I hope you don't mind reading this, I've reached the bottom this year, I worked so hard to get better and I keep losing, I could really use your advice, thanks.

Comments for Please help me out hormone problems

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May 04, 2010
 Please help me out hormone problems
by: Wray

Hi Christopher. Pleased you gave me the test results. Reading your first paras with the 'wired' feeling I thought you needed tyrosine, it's the amino acid precursor to many things, to the two thyroid hormones T4 and T3, adrenaline and noradrenaline. But above all to dopamine. Lack of dopamine leads to the wired feeling. You have high noradrenaline if the figures are correct. Noradrenaline is made from dopamine, it seems much of your dopamine is going to make this. Then when I saw the relatively high prolactin it all fitted, prolactin suppresses dopamine. Prolactin is the hormone that makes milk in a breast, hence the tight feeling, as if your ducts were full. Prolactin is involved with gratification after sex, but dopamine causes sexual arousal, high prolactin leads to low dopamine, to low libido. High prolactin also leads to erectile dysfunction and impotence. Agnus castus has mild oestrogenic affects. Progesterone activates the oestrogen receptors, oestrogen activates the progesterone receptors. So using agnus castus helped in the beginning as it was increasing your progesterone levels, but then it stopped working. Because now oestrogen had 'taken' over so to speak. Using progesterone will initially increase oestrogen, hence the 'adverse' feelings you have. After time these do calm down and go. The overwhelming symptoms are not excess cortisol, but oestrogen. DHEA increases both testosterone and oestrogen levels, so would not have helped as you found. But over riding all this is the high prolactin. It's easy enough to get this down and your dopamine up. Tyrosine and more protein in your food will increase the dopamine, it will also suppress the prolactin. Progesterone also suppresses prolactin, this is the reason women don't have milk whilst pregnant, as they are making large amounts of progesterone. But once they've given birth, progesterone drops sharply and prolactin rises to stimulate milk production. This also explains why many women after birth are not interested in sex! Oxytocin is the hormone that causes milk let-down in a mother who is breast feeding. Progesterone is made in the adrenals, and from it cortisol is made. Using supplemental progesterone not only takes the stress off the adrenals, as they now have extra to help, but it will also suppress excess cortisol. It's also very calming as it activates the GABA receptor sites, GABA is one of our most calming neurotransmitters. Progesterone also stimulates nitric oxide, this tiny molecule is vital for erectile function. Viagra works in a similar fashion, as it also stimulates nitric oxide, but with some adverse side affects, progesterone has none. We have many men using progesterone to increase libido. I do have a complex which I think could help, it certainly has all the nutrients you need and more. If you'd like to try it, please contact me here. Take care, Wray
May 07, 2010
 Thanks
by: Anonymous

Thanks very much for replying I know it was a complex long read, trust me its confused some so called expert Dr's for years.

I have been down the dopamine boosting route, some Dr saw my urine test as follows:

Epinephrine 3.5, 6.5 (12:50 PM) range 8-12
Norepinephrine 20.8, 37.8 range 30-55
Dopamine 48.6, 63, 126.2 125-175
Serotonin 55.7, 66, 63.2 175-225
Glycine 863, 801 200-400
Taurine 120.8, 103 150-300
Glutamine 2003,2075 150-400
Melatonin 15 range 25-100 (11.50pm)

He put me on a dopamine medication, but either I gave up too soon or it felt wrong, odd. I took a shake three times a day for 6 months called Vianesse that had high levels of tyosine and tryptophan and never noticed the slightest improvement, everything a dead end. I took 3-6 tryptophan tablets a night for 5 month and never got to sleep early. I worked so hard at a detox and great diet and not a single tiny improvement.

But even in the last week on progesterone is causing reactions in my breast area that have never happened in years. I had a 10 minute period where it felt like it was reversing all my problems, but it stopped over powered by estrogen and that wired feeling. But that was only a week ago an amazingly positive reaction. I went down to about 40-50mg of Natpro, I went on a bio-energy machine that told me how much progesterone I needed each day and it was 50mg so I'm trying to stick to that for now. I'll stick for a month then boost it.

However, I've had more success with Natpro in two weeks than anything I have tried in 6 years but with some good signs I'm getting really bad estrogen symptoms coming and going, it's quite scary. I was never willing to get worse before I get better, but that seems impossible to avoid if I'm on the right track, I'll just battle through.

I gave up progesterone once before because I thought it was increasing estrogen, when it obviously was not.

Does this extra info suggest anything else?
May 14, 2010
 Thanks
by: wray

Hi Christopher. Yes it does, thanks, I'm not a great believer in drugs, as you've no doubt picked up! A dopamine medication fits into this. Looking at your test result it is low, so is serotonin. I've checked the Vianesse site and it's excellent, no excitatory aminos thanks heavens! Very high in glutamine, which would explain your high test result, not a bad thing, I recommend between 4000-8000mg/day, and I see it has 4583mg/dose. The tyrosine could be higher at 820mg/dose. I suggest you take 1000mg/day to start with, you might need more. And the tryp is probably too low to help, but more importantly it should never be taken with other amino acids, as they shunt it to one side. It should always be taken alone, just before sleep and with a small amount of carb to get it into the brain. We have more info on how to take it here. Pity they never checked your prolactin level, I'm still convinced this is one of the main problems. Caused of course by the low dopamine. You should also take taurine, a semi essential amino acid, it's extremely calming and will certainly help that wired feeling, I take 5000mg/day.

I'm delighted the progesterone is helping. The excess oestrogen symptoms can be alarming, but at least you've had a positive response. I would still like to help you with a complex we have which I think will help. Please think about it, and if you're interested please contact me here. Take care, Wray
Mar 05, 2012
 Zinc blocks cortisol
by: Anonymous

For what its worth, I came across this link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1702662

I found that it works for me - zinc definitely acts as a beta blocker. Benefits start within 24 hours. I found I only needed 10 mg per day to get the full effect.

After 4 months, started to get some negatives, such as waking up 3:00 am every morning with pounding heart. Evidently the zinc was blocking cortisol too effectively. When my body tried to raise cortisol in early a.m. (which is the normal cycle) it couldn't and so produced adrenaline instead. Yikes!

I've been off zinc for 3 months now, but the good effects (beta blocking) continue. Still have problem that if I get supplemental zinc, or just high zinc food, will wake at 3:00-3:30 a.m. with pounding heart, so I am careful. I expect that over time my zinc levels will drop and I won't be sensitive to it.
Mar 06, 2012
 Zinc blocks cortisol
by: Wray

Hi there Many thanks for this, found a few more papers the same researchers carried out. Have you thought of the possibility that your blood glucose had dropped overnight. This causes adrenaline to be released. Take care Wray
Mar 06, 2012
 Zinc blocks cortisol-2
by: Anonymous

Thanks for the comments Wray. Yes, it is very similar to that. And I am a reactive hypglycemic type. However, this is much more intense and is accompanied by a good bit of sweating.

I am open to suggestions. Maybe too much zinc causes hypoG? At any rate, I know that if I avoid zinc for now, I do better.

The zinc has definitely helped my reaction to stress, which was always over-reaction. But even at just 10mg per day, I got too much it seems.

I know I have some mineral imbalances, but correcting them is not so easy - seems that taking minerals I am low in backfires with some unpleasant reactions. If I take any minerals it has to be in very low doses, 1/4 to 1/10th of what is usually recommended.

If you have any suggestions, I am open.

Thanks for a nice web site/ information resource!
May 27, 2012
 2012
by: Anonymous

Hi Everyone! Ok so I need to tell you, I'm 37 female and 3 years out from any kiddos. Anyhow, out of nowhere I started having the let down feeling and I remembered how to stop it... Get yourself some tough ace bandage, wrap your chest TIGHT (breathe obv.) and wear it for maybe 2-3 days? Anytime I felt it, I pushed back on it with the palm of my hands and your body will get the message that it's not in need of it. Good luck!
May 28, 2012
 Zinc blocks cortisol-2
by: Wray

Hi there I'm so sorry for not replying to you earlier, but I've only just received notification of this query. Thanks for the kind words! Have you tried glutamine before going to bed? This can be used by the brian in place of glucose, but doesn't give a sugar shock. And avoid all carbs at night, this could be another cause. Have you tried taurine, it's the most important amino for the heart, and does calm it down. And finally have you tried progesterone? This does calm the heart too. Excess oestrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Interestingly it's women who suffer from a long QT interval, it's rare in men. But if oestrogen is too high it could result in a man. Take care Wray
May 28, 2012
 Thanks Wray
by: Anonymous

Thanks so much for the input Wray.
Glutamine in past has had a very negative effect on me. I am very sensitive to glutamates, there is some inbalance there that I don't know how to correct. At any rate, glutamine usually has very negative effects - extremely tired, yet hyper, foggy minded, sometimes headache.

I have tried glycerine at night and that seems to help with hypoG. But my reaction to Zinc is in addition to that it seems. Recently had a bad bout of early morning waking - went about a month only getting 4 hours sleep per night. Finally I started getting my cholesterol level up (by eating a lot of butter,etc) and within 3 days, started getting more normal sleep. Had this before years ago; (early waking, etc) and resolved it by getting cholesterol up. IN retrospect, maybe it is low cholesterol rather than excess zinc that was causing my early waking.??
I know cholesterol is related to hormone levels, such as cortisol, etc, as is progesterone. I have tried progesterone with no significant results - plus I got worried about disrupting my hormones w/o really knowing what I am doing.
Thanks much Wray!!
May 29, 2012
 Thanks Wray
by: Wray

Hi there How interesting your reaction to glutamine, I take about 8000mg/day, as I'm also hypoG, reactive to grains or very sweet foods, which I normally avoid. What about glycine? The body converts that to glucose very slowly, as it does the glutamine. Most intrigued you got your cholesterol up by eating butter, as that doesn't normally affect it. Grains and sugars do! And you could be right re the cholesterol and zinc, the body is far too complicated, which domino fell first to set the chain reaction off. This aspect always fascinates me. Have you thought about salt? Often a lack of this causes insomnia, plus the adrenals need sodium to function. I would like to know how much progesterone you used. If you're male as Chris is who started the page, I recommend 10-100mg/day or more, dependant on symptoms. If you're female, maybe you were given the 'normal' 20mg/day? This is far too low to my mind, I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. If heart palpitations occur, or any other serious problem like asthma or migraines, I recommend at least 400mg/day. Too low an amount increases Oestrogen Dominance symptoms too. Take care Wray

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