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Help With Progesterone Dosing So many problems sad scared frusterated confused please help and reply

by Stephanie
(Boston)

Dear Wray,
Hi, I hope I can find some answers here as I am so confused and just at about wits end. I started using progesterone after my gynecologist tested my hormone levels. Estradol was 87 and progesterone 6.5. She suggested I start off with 40 mg vaginal cream from a compounding pharmacy. i used this for a few weeks and because I have hashimotos assumed I was having a flare and my thyroid was too high. The first time I ever used the cream I must say I noticed I felt oddly calm that day which is not my usual and so I was pleased. However over the nect few weeks I began to suffer shortness of breeath terrible aches and pains anxiety panick agression depression agitation. I feel its important to also write that The first time I ever used progesterone cream was a few weeks prior the brand I use now called life flo i used only 20 mg and I threw up. I also tried dim and threw up. my hostory is i startrd my period at barely 12 years old and suffered horrible debilitating cramps long periods clotting achiness fepression anxiety asthma flairs mood and energy problems. I feel its jnportant to say that at one point while on the 40mg sose after 2 werks and havin stopped my thyroid meds i did feel some calmness at times. I then began to feel very depressed and tired so i upped the progesterone to 120mg/day the life flo brand and felt shaky, panicky, basically adtenaline would surge and my heart would beat very fast and my gynecologist said that the 40 mg was probably too high a dose for me to begin with and to go down to 20 mg a day. i felt sort of ok on this and then after a few days my periood came and i stopped the cream i also felt ok for 3 days of my period then i started getting these adrenaline surges my heart would pound and so i took 20 mg progesterone the next day i woke up feeling god awful my head spinning so dizzy panicky extremely irritable. I took a little more cream and felt a little calm for a bit then spiraled into panick attack. i then went back to 40 mg and felt shaky inside my head literally was shaking in the mirror and i was just panicky. then i tried a big dose 200 mg and felt a little better but still anxiety. then came my period and i kept using the cream and then came severe tight chest anxiety trouble breathing badically asthma like feelings hard to breathe and at the same time feeling jacked up fast heart adrenaline racing through my heart and body. horrible feeling. yesterday i took 200 felt like i was going to throw up and took 100 more, for the first time on it i felt ok but only for a fee hours i then took 120 mg a few hours later and the same thing racing heart heart paliptations anxiety very tight chest. today i stayed home i took 400mg this am along with taurine magnesium vitamin d, i felt ok not perfect but better than any other time. then i ate and the adrenaline feeling returned and tight chest and heart racing. so i put on 120mg afraid to go higher as I dont know if its too high or too low of the dose thats agitating me. I felt even worse and had to take some anxiety meds and just washed the creM off. now i feel low blood sugar and achy but a little less heart raving. i am scared i am going to kill myself! i am a very strong person and know i have a problem because of all these symptom and am suspectibg i need a very high dose. or have i agitated and confused my body so much i just need a small dose? or is this life flo brand no good? and lastly i do have adrenal problems and have been under a lot of stress and am concerned of progesterone raising corisol and that causing the heart and chest and anxiety problems. I really need some help i really need some correvt information i am going to call my dr tomorrow and ask for a new compunded rx for 1000 mg/ day i suspect i may need 400mg 2x a day. Also I am only 30 years old. granted i have always had a short luteal phase severr* pms, other hormones issues stress hashimotos and wuestion if i ovulate. my whestion is am i going to kill myself with these heart palpitations? will the hogher dose help? i have been trying the crram for about three months now and no relief! Please help!! is it safe to take a very high dose and is life flo an ok brand and lastly the feeling of adrenaline is that from too much or too little progesterone? thank you and god bless you if you are able to writr back i rrally need some cofrect info as my dr basically said just experiment and thought all this was from elevated cortisol not estrogen doninance synptoms. i also have big saddle bags aside from being normal elsewherr and it makes me wonder if all the estrogen is pooled there as i know thats a sign of a problem. thank you!

Comments for Help With Progesterone Dosing So many problems sad scared frusterated confused please help and reply

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Mar 04, 2015
 Help With Progesterone Dosing So many problems sad scared frusterated confused please help and reply
by: Wray

Hi Stephanie Most of your answers you'll find on our page about Oestrogen Dominance. Oestrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia, Torsades de Pointes and sudden death. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. These symptoms occur far more frequently in women who naturally have a long QT interval, rather than men who naturally have a short QT interval. Please also see our pages on How to use Progesterone Cream, and Peri-menopause. Take care Wray
Mar 04, 2015
 Adrenaline Surges
by: Stephanie

Hi Wray,
Thanks for your reply, I have figured out the main symptom is an adrenaline or cortisol surge from the cream. I am wondering if it has made my cortisol too high. What are your thoughts? It is definitely related to an adrenaline type feeling and is stronger after eating. I did read recently women who have adrenal problems as well can have paradoxical effects to the cream. Perhaps my symptoms are non estrogen related and more related to adrenaline?
Mar 05, 2015
 Adrenaline Surges
by: Wray

Hi Stephanie Yes it is an adrenaline surge, please see our page on Anxiety. It explains the blood sugar drop you are experiencing after eating, and the surge of adrenaline then. Take care Wray
Mar 05, 2015
 hi guys
by: jayem

just wanted to mention the companion supplement when using DIM is Calcium-D-Glucarate. Cal-D-G, the body's natural defense against toxins of all kinds (we produce our own), seems to be exceptional at ridding the body of steroid hormones (ALL steroid hormones), as well as xeno-hormones, as in xeno-estrogens ...that being said, when i've run into 'trouble' while figuring out e-dom & pro-g supplementation, a small dose of cal-d-g, taken with DIM, set me right in as little as 30 minutes...i would advise anyone to consider learning about DIM & Cal-d-g and perhaps go thru a cleaning period just prior to starting pro-g, or try all three together AFTER you have confidence in understanding how each one functions...(educate yourself)

I've had experience employing all 3 (pro-g, DIM & cal-d-g)for 6 years. I've experimented with different protocols - results being 'night and day', and I can say that, as with anything, the most prudent/conservative approach when DIY supplementing is to seek the advice of experts (do your internet research, and, if you can afford to, sit down with a Natural or Functional practitioner)...

We aren't 'robots'...we need to slow down and listen to our bodies before our bodies force us to slow down- things fluctuate - what your hormone level is today may change tomorrow - what toxins you absorbed today may change tomorrow...

learn about natural remedies - cal-d-g, for as little as we know about it, is certainly another very powerful tool against e-dom, and one i am very comfortable employing - however - i keep my eyes and ears open to any new studies on this and any other remedy i've taken or am considering.

Ooops! to the point at the beginning - i, too, took DIM on it's own without cal-d-g, and had your identical experience ... i learned and take DIM and 250mg cal-d-g together - once a day or twice a day or 3x - it all depends on the day ... cal-d-g has a 5 hour 'cleaning window' where it's active in your body ... i pay attention to that window, because we don't know enough about it to know if it clears EVERYthing (good and bad) out of your systems... webMD has cal-d-g as interfering with all prescription meds ... that being said, i have a buddy who used it to "clear" herself of all meds after a surgery, and a very common report from cal-d-g users is that they 'can drink like when i was younger!" lol! (speaks to the cleaning effect and support it offers the liver)...we just don't know enough about it but from what we do know and what i have experienced, it's a wonderful, powerful, fast acting companion to pro-g and DIM in fighting e-dom ...

also (sorry! long winded this am!) be cautious to not 'hyper-focus' on 'one thing' - don't hyper-focus on one supplement, don't hyper-focus on one 'screaming ailment' - nature works in balance...
when out health crisis-es come 'screaming up', we pay attention because we have to, BUT by the time we are aware there is a crisis, we are 'jumping in the middle of the story" ... once the crisis has been addressed, and we catch our breath, it's time to slow down and look at the whole kit ...

Functional medicine is looking at the WHOLE KIT - your whole body, top to bottom - ALL of your systems - and your history... we tend to react to 'the crisis at hand' and run with it ... 'yes' the crisis needs to be dealt with, but it will only ever be just a 'part' of the puzzle if we hyper-focus on the crisis...once you get a little break/little relief (say from e-dom), then it's time to take a sobering and brave look at the whole kit- we live in a 'soup' that's thickening everyday (toxins) There is nothing in me that believes 'one magic bullet' is gonna get the job done when there are (literally) 70,000 known offending 'bullets' being hurled at us every day (toxins)- our bodies were not designed to contend with 9/10th of what we are exposed to...to me this means 'multiple therapies' and a whole, FUNCTIONAL approach ...

So - take care of the crisis at hand - e-dom, adrenal fatigue, dysfunctional thyroid - whatever it comes down to (those issues are all tied in, as is the rest of your organs and systems), and don't worry! you're on the right path - you operate the "machinery" 24/7 - you got this !! we all just need a little help and to educate ourselves and ABOVE ALL stay OPEN to NEW information, as it changes- constantly !!

(case in point: D3 has been widely studied in recent time, with a huge amount of studies concluding it's benefits BUT even MORE recently, K2 (M7) has been coming up as the COMPANION to D3 for the function of directing calcium ...it seems to be clear that K2 and D3 work together in absorbing and directing calcium, and some recommend that one should never supplement with D3 alone- that in fact it's dangerous, in that improper calcium absorption = calcification of the arteries and 'stones' in soft tissue - K2 is the 'traffic cop' (if i may borrow wray's analogy) to D3 ...and Magnesium is the conductor - and zinc! AND BORON! AND! and !

... point is, when we used to be able to just digest these nutrients thru our food, nature had all the components figured out for us ... we didn't have to think about anything, just 'live our lives' ... but now we are in a position to think about everything - all of the components - which is a daunting task on a good day, nevermind when you're operating dysfunctionally ...

I recommend (to everyone)when things become overwhelming, to go back to the beginning ... consider a Paleo diet (temporarily - like, say, 3 months) = clean up and simplify your food source ... see how you feel... from there, maybe consider an ancestorial diet for a while ... see how you feel .. mother nature gave us 'clean food' and it worked perfectly = choose organic food ... water used to be clean too = test and possibly filter your water ... if you do check out a Paleo diet, don't stop there - see what the whole paleo lifestyle is about, if not to 'try' then just to understand your 'kit'and how it functions, from it's very beginning - how it was designed to operate and on what 'fuel' ...
Mar 05, 2015
 More questions
by: Anonymous

Is it possible the adrenaline surge is from the progesterone increasing my cortisol levels. I have just opened an art gallery and been under stres for awhile as well as some ptsd but at the same time both are not too too bad most of the stress i experienced was from the progesterone the last few months trying to sort out. when i used 40mg i had some of this adrenaline stuff but not as bad what would happen is i used to feel a calming effect then it would wear of after 3 hours i would put more crream on back to calm then the cycle over again. thats when i went up to 120 and never got relief again even at trying 400mg 2x/day for 3 days (during my period) so you nust understabd i am suspicios my body is lerceiving the progesterone as threatening i mean in this situation just how much cream would be needed if 800mg/day made it even worse and three days later i still feel adrenaline coursing theough me.... do i have an adrenal problem to fix first? what do i do? i am even considering getting some beta blockers temporarily as all that helps is clonopin which i hate to take unless i have to and this is a have to sitauation. i am also scared to eat i thought at first it was from low blood sugar but it seems like i might wait a little too long to eat then when my body has the food book its surging. helppppppp. i am awful off it and kind of want to just let it out my system test my cortiosolnand reserach alternative methods or if progesterone is the answer this whole process is totally aggravating my ptsd hypervigilence and i need a muchbetter idea of a dose that eill eork and if it will work at all given the sysmptoms and stress. and all i saod above about what happened on lower dose. i am still not totally sure the cortisol hs not been raised too high which i know can happen. can adrenaline be a problem without cortisol getting to high? thank you so much.
Mar 09, 2015
 reply to Jayem
by: Stephanie

Hi Jayem Thank You So much for your comment. I truly appreciate it. Yes you are so right, the whole picture, I was hoping the cream would be a magic bullet but it just aggravted me perhaps the dose perhaps underlying stuff perhaps not having all the fact perhaps not including the whole picture. I will try this supplement you suggested wiut the cream and just with the dim. question is will taking dim and Calcium-D-Glucarate lower my estrogen which is already not shoeing up high (but is higher than progesterone) without raising progesterone? Another question for you is what do you believe those surges of adrenaline after putting the cream on were from? Lastly I notice since stoppping the cream the adrenaline surges 3 days later are almost all the way gone but i have some feeling of hunger right after eating. My blood sugar is not too bad though. I am taking some adrenal cortex and this seems to help. I am guessing I might have had some detox, blood sugar and adrenal stuff that needed to be addressed first. I have heard progesterone can cause insulin resistance and wonder if it aggrvated something there connected to the adrenaline. Thanks again for your wisdom which is so helpful and your supplement suggestion I will try that. I cant say progesterone cream is the answer for me though its comforting to know someone else had a similar experience and has come through it.
Mar 16, 2015
 Help With Progesterone Dosing So many problems sad scared frusterated confused please help and reply
by: RJ

Hello Stephanie!
Any natural protocol we follow will take time for our bodies to adjust to. You have had problems for many years and what you are taking and/or doing is not going to fix itself in a week or two. The low dosage you were taking was exciting estrogen and making you have all these problems. It's hard to weather through the side effects of making progesterone the dominant hormone and pushing estrogen to be quiet. Progesterone is not causing the insulin resistance. I used to weigh 300 pounds. Google Diabetes Summit and sign up for it...it's free and begins in a week. Listen to all the experts on IR and diabetes. You will find what causes IR or what is now being labeled Type 3 Diabetes. Also read Michael Edwards site organicelifestylemagazine.com. He has some excellent articles on the the surges of cortisol and adrenaline....do you get enough restful sleep? I have been researching because my son suffers from adrenal fatigue. I found Wray's site three years ago due to those surges you are having and was in the ER because I knew I was having a heart attack. It took a year for me to see improvement and I am still changing what I take. Life Flo has a lot of additives in it and when the weather turns hot you will feel like a greased piglet. It was the first product I used and it was so heavy. Try Wray's...it's the best and you are getting more progesterone per tube which will save you some money. I truly believe if we are stressed and who isn't, that any protocol we use will struggle along if we do not learn to cope with stress. Oh the protocol will eventually work, but not to its' full potential. Hang in there you will find the right combination! God Bless! RJ
Apr 04, 2015
 stop progesterone cream
by: Anonymous

http://www.medref.se/pms/backstrom_13.pdf
there are articles written by valid studies and by valid MEDICAL DOCTORS that discuss the issue with progesterone intolerance. You cannot "just get used to the medication" with your heart rate pounding over the 100s for weeks and weeks and cortisol shooting out the roof. That puts you at risk of cardiac and metabolic issues. Please read on progesterone intolerance and how areas of the brain affected.
Apr 06, 2015
 Help With Progesterone Dosing So many problems sad scared frusterated confused please help and reply
by: Anonymous

"Further evidence that progesterone and progestogens
induce negative mood symptoms similar to those in
PMDD/PMS is seen in postmenopausal women receiv-
ing estrogen/progesterone hormone therapy.
5–7"

If I am reading this article correctly, these study results are derived from women taking estrogen and progesterone therapy. Wray does not recommend any estrogen therapy as we get plenty of it from just living, eating and breathing. And for women not to be able to take progesterone....well then the human race would not be able to evolve, as progesterone is the highest when we are pregnant. That would mean the ER's are filled with lots of pregnant women in their rooms complaining of rapid heart rates and/or high cortisol readings that were effecting their lives. Cancers multiply rapidly in women who enter menopuase...why...we have stopped making progesterone. Then look at the males of today. Breast cancer and prostate cancer escalating....why...because they are breathing, eating, applying estrogen. Just my thoughts. But this paper does nothing for me because it's studying the use of estrogen and progesterone combined to derive all their theories.

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