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Help me Wray

Hi Wray, I'm 39 and was on the birth control on and off for 15 years. I have had 3 girls my last being 3 months premature. I felt horrible after I had her.

I started the cream in January and got very sick. I had to up the dose to 600-800 milligrams to get some relief. I do feel better Wray but I started to get red and inflamed around my vagina area. Just wondering if I'm taking too much and should I cut back now? How long have woman been on high amounts before they level out?

I have had regular cycle with a little heavier bleeding since taking the cream, the last period had heavier clotting. If I as level would I still be getting blood clots. Can you get blood clots taking too much progesterone? I'm confused Wray and feel very overwhelmed. Thanks for your time.

Comments for Help me Wray

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May 25, 2011
 Atrophy/Vaginal Progesterone - feeling better after Wray's advice
by: Julia UK

Just wanted to say I was suffering from vaginal atrophy and a slight bladder prolapse (am 57). I had a hysteroscopy and was prescribed Vagifem. I also tried Ovestin. Both made me ill with stomach cramps, recurrence of IBS, constipation, back ache and generally feeling like I had PMS (haven't had a period for years. Wray suggested using Natpro vaginally at least once a day and hey ho great success. I now can have pain free sex and my urine continence has improved. This is after a few months of using it this way. I use an applicator I had with Replens for vaginal moisture and put a quarter to half a teaspoon in. There is always a small bit left in the tube but generally manage to scrape the residual out and use it on skin. I know there were a few questions about vaginal insertion and 'how to' and I just hope this helps someone!
May 25, 2011
 Also
by: Anonymous

By the way Wray, I didn't mentioned this before if I try lowering the dose to 300-400 I'm completely sick. I mean can't function and honestly I can say, since I have been on the cream I have not reached a symptom free level by all means. So in conclusion I will continue on your theory which by far seems to work. Also when I first started the cream I was on very low amounts 40 milligrams, that just about put me in a mental hospital. Take care.
May 26, 2011
 When to lower your dose
by: Eve

I feel your pain. I was on BCP for 20 years. When I came off due to having severe hormonal problems, my life turned upside down. My body was so confused and deficient. The domino effect of health ailments were falling down faster than I pick them up. The solution for me to find a livable spot was to take high doses - starting around 200 and eventually getting as high as 600-900 mg and sometimes I went higher if I felt horrible. I was on a high doses for about a year because my symptoms were so severe. The only alternative at the time was to just check out completely :-( I have recently started taking my dose down (slowly)and so far no reoccurances of the symptoms. But before you start reducing I think you must hit a point of stabalization. That is where I was when I decided i would venture to lower doses. However, part of the side effects of long term use of BCP is that your body is deficient in minerals and vitamins. Minerals are essential to your body. They assist and aid hormone function amongst a million other things. I believe in order to achieve optimal progesterone levels you will need some mineral/vitamin support. I recommend starting with cell salts (a.k.a. tissue salts or Schueller salts). You can order them online (Hyland is the brand I use) and also research for yourself how they work. I would strongly suggest taking Vit D5000K, Vit C 3000 (min), Magnesium (as mag aspartate, glyycinate and gluconate) (300mg) and a good multi (not one you buy at the grocery store). I found after adding the cell salts, i was able to come off thyroid meds (yay!!) and also lower my progesterone. I have lowered down to approx 200mg and i am trying to follow my cycle (if it will hold a pattern??). I am not taking progesterone everyday like I used to which is a complete miracle! I also started applying Nat Pro diret to my labia -it works wonderfully for me! It was a long road for me. I think you shave off some trial and error if you keep good records and keep referring back to this blog for some great testament of trial and errors. Wishing you hormonal balance! Peace ~ Eve
May 26, 2011
 Thank you Eve with all of my heart.
by: Anonymous

Hi Eve you made my day. I was worried about taking high doses and you don't see too many woman on this blog taking high doses so I'm glad you shared your story. It is horrific what BCP has done, isn't it. I'm on everything you suggested but the cell salts. What is the name specifically, is it the hyland bioplasma cell salts you take and how much do you take? Can you tell me the specific name of them?
I'm so happy to hear how well you are doing and now I have more peace about the high doses. Really thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing, I was getting worried about the dosage, there is great controversy about dosage. Take care my friend.
Jun 03, 2011
 Help me Wray
by: Wray

Hi there All Contraceptives have the potential to cause adverse side effects. The prem baby was due to falling progesterone levels, please see our page on Pregnancy. There are many studies on the page showing how progesterone has been used successfully to stop this occurring. You say you felt horrible after having her, I'm assuming you had post natal depression? This is caused by a severe drop in progesterone levels, so it doesn't surprise me you had to use 600-800mg/day to get relief. Dr Dalton would give her patients up to 2400mg/day, see here. Progesterone is a potent anti-inflammatory, so won't have caused the inflamed vagina. This can be caused by a number of things, one is an infection, have you had it checked out? Have you tried using some cream in your vagina, a finger or syringe can be used to apply it. If I'm right about the PND, there are a number of nutrients which help, besides progesterone. Please see our page on Anxiety. We are all so different, the time needed to level out varies considerably, so I can't tell you. But if you consider taking the anti-anxiety nutrients too, I feel you could start reducing the amount you're using without feeling sick. And yes, 40mg/day would have been the right amount to make you feel mental! Progesterone doesn't cause clots, whether in the uterus or the blood. It prevents platelets aggregating, reduces thrombin by about 15%, so reducing clotting, it prevents lipid peroxidation and atherosclerosis. The clots are caused by oestrogen, your lining has built up over the preceding months, but not all of it has come away when you bleed. Using such a high amount of progesterone would effectively remove all the clots that had formed. It's the drop in progesterone which causes us to bleed. I'm running out of space, so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray
Jun 03, 2011
 Help me Wray
by: Wray

Hi there MMP's are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle. Oestrogen stimulates MMP's. Progesterone suppresses both MMP's and oestrogen. It's only when progesterone levels drop at the end of the cycle that the MMP?s can get to work and break down the lining causing our monthly bleed, see here and here. I feel you are short of vitamin D, this is vital for pregnancy, plus it's needed to prevent depression, assuming I'm correct about this. Furthermore a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. Please have a test done. For more info see the ZRT lab and GrassrootsHealth websites. If I'm right and you are short, please make sure you take a minimum of 5000iu's per day. And the blood level should be between 70-100ng/ml, and not the 30ng/ml the labs use as a reference. Take care Wray
Jun 03, 2011
 Atrophy/Vaginal Progesterone - feeling better after Wray's advice
by: Wray

Hi Julia So good having this feedback, many thanks! Take care Wray
Jun 03, 2011
 When to lower your dose
by: Wray

Hi Eve Many thanks for this feedback too! It does help others knowing they are not alone. It's all very well me giving the studies on high amounts, but coming from a user it makes such a difference. It is essential to stabilise first, and to reduce slowly too. And the BCP does reduce minerals, and in particular the B vits. Vitamin D is another essential as it works with progesterone, most of us have low levels anyway. Take care Wray
Jun 03, 2011
 anti anxiety
by: To Wray from Annette

Wray what would you recommend for anti-anxiety, I have trouble mentally, focusing, some anxiety and very mild depression. I think the depression is more so from not feeling well. This is what I'm on 3000 IU vitamin d, good multi, magsmart, dandelion for detoxing my liver, probiotics, you also recommended calcium d-glucarate on another post. Your a gem. Plus I started those cell salts.
Jun 03, 2011
 Urinary Tract Infections
by: To Wray From Annette

Sorry to bug you again Wray but I have had 2 urinary tract infections in the last month, is this normal? Maybe it's because of the high doses. I'm on antibiotics so can I still take probiotics as well. I'm so tired of this Wray. What can I take as a preventive and will they eventually stop. Do other women get UTI's being on the cream? HELP
Jun 06, 2011
 Cell Salts/Progesterone
by: Eve

Hi Julia, Julia - you are not alone! I am happy to share my experiences in effort to help anyone who is suffering. The cell salt brand that I use is Hyland. Bioplasma is a multi of all 12 cell salts. I personally have each one as an individual salt. I started with Nerve Tonic (also by Hyland). BTW - this is a great one for anxiety and stress as Annette was asking for some additional help. It is a blend of 5 of the cell salts and I took this religiously multiple times a day (sometimes 7-8 times). I still continue to take Nerve Tonic every day as well as I have expanded into other cell salts. Since then I have read that Kali Sulph (Schueller salt #7) is used for those experiencing excess estrogen. Hopefully this will give you somewhere to start. I do recommend researching your symptoms and from that research you will be able to fine tune what your body needs. I would gather that just about the entire population is deficient in tissue salts based on our lifestyle and environment. There is a great book "Facial Diagnosis of Cell Salt Deficiencies" by David Card. I recently purchased it and am studying it with much vigor. Wishing you all the best on your journey towards health and balance Peace ~ Eve
Jun 10, 2011
 anti anxiety and UTI's
by: Wray

Hi Annette We do have a page on Anxiety, please read through it, as it lists nutrients which all help with anxiety. It seems you could do with more vitamin D, please have a test done. A lack of this nutrient causes anxiety/depression, plus it reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more info see the ZRT lab and GrassrootsHealth websites. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, and the blood level should be between 70-100ng/ml. And not the 30ng/ml the labs use as a reference point. The UTI's are probably caused by the progesterone stimulating oestrogen, this is an inflammatory hormone. I'm not sure how much you're using, but it should be 100-200mg/day, sometimes more. Eve posted another comment you might like to read here. She was using very high amounts as you'll see, and is now able to reduce the amount. Have you tried d-mannose for the UTI, it has helped some women? The amino acid arginine can help too, see here. Mast cells are implicated, see here. Progesterone inhibits mast cell secretions, see here. It's a pity you're on the antibiiotics, as they cause a vicous cycle. Once you've stopped them, the infection can come back, so more are then given. It's essential to take the probiotics, but they must be taken a few hours away from the antibiotics, which will only kill them. I've found a combo of vitamin C and bicarb works well, the ratio should be 1 bicarb to 2.75 vitamin C. This gives a delicious fizzy drink, which should be taken 3 times a day until the infection clears. So if you mix 1 tsp bicarb with 2.75 tsp vitamin C, this would be enough for one day. If there's insufficient vitamin C the drink is very bitter due to the bicarb. Don't mix up too much, as they react with only air moisture and it won't work. You don't say you have Candida, but please read through this page too. You'll notice how beneficial progesterone is if it's present. I've no idea if it will help, but caprylic acid which kills candida, is also effective against other pathogens. The oil is more effective than the tabs. It would certainly be worth trying, it's wonderful for the skin too, which is why it?s the oil we use in Natpro. Take care Wray
Jun 10, 2011
 Cell Salts/Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Eve Thanks again for your wonderful info! Take care Wray
Feb 01, 2012
 Eve I want to talk with you
by: Annette Hromek

Eve anyway I can speak with you via email or by phone? Thanks Annette
Feb 01, 2012
 Re: High doses of progesterone
by: Eve

Hi Annette, yes you can contact me at...

Hi Eve Thanks for the quick reply, as I know Annette seems desperate to speak to you. I don't like publishing emails on the site, as it invites spam. But I have sent your address to Joy who is in contact with Annette. Take care Wray
Feb 02, 2012
 Thanks Wray
by: Eve

Thanks much appreciated!
Feb 03, 2012
 hello eve
by: Annette

Hello Eve I had sent a few e-mails to you just wondering if you had received them. I'm anxiously awaiting to talk with you? =-)
Feb 04, 2012
 Annette
by: Eve

I am happy to talk to you. I am not getting your emails. Can you double check with Wray for my email address. I sent myself a test message to make sure eveything is ok and it came through fine.


Wray would you so kindly edit this message and take out the email address.....

Hi Eve I will give it again to Joy, to send to Annette, in case I've made an error, although I did copy and paste it. Take care Wray
Feb 05, 2012
 Eve / Annette
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Eve and Annette - Problem solved, I had the incorrect address. I have forwarded you both an email. Please let me know that it has been received.
Take care.
Joy
Feb 15, 2012
 Severe Headache
by: Carolyn

This will be my 4th attempt at Natural Progesterone cream, i so want to take it as i know it will be benefical for me but,,,each time i have stopped as i can not bear the most severe headaches i get when i have a few days break.

I have not had a period for 6 years i am now 54years.

Any ideas on how i can overcome this.

Regards
Carolyn
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe Headache
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn Yes it's very simple! Ignore all the daft instructions about taking a break, and use it daily. You have no cycle to worry about as you're in Menopause. I've used it every day for 15 years now, even when I had regular cycles in the last couple of years of Peri-menopause. Each time I stopped when bleeding began, all my symptoms came back, so I thought be damned to that, I'll use it daily, and have ever since. It's very evident when you take the break and symptoms return that you have excess oestrogen. So please don't put yourself through all that agony for nothing. I do recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. So you'll have to experiment with the amount that suits. Take care Wray
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Carolyn - headaches are a sign that you are estrogen dominant. If you type estrogen dominance in the Google search bar on this site you will find so much information on it. How much cream are you using? Do make sure that the cream that you are using contains the correct amount of progesterone otherwise it will not work or it will take much longer.
You are 56, have not had a period in 6 years so you are in menopause therefore progesterone should be used every day with no stopping and is perfectly safe to do so. I have been using it for nearly 6 years without stopping and I know that others have used it longer.
Progesterone is excellent for headaches and migraines as it is a potent anti-inflammatory. Rub about half a teaspoon of cream on the back of your neck and up the sides of your temples. That should help greatly.
I highly recommend that you use progesterone every day with not stopping.

Hope this helps.
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe headaches
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray,Joy:
I really appreciate your comments and they certainly make me feel more poitive.
I use 1/8th of a tsp of cream on either my bust stomach or bottom am and pm,,does that sound ok.
The main reason i am so keen to use it is mainly due to the fact it massively reduces my sweet tooth,,in fact i have no sugar craving at all whilst i am using it,,hence it helps my weight...
My menopause symptoms are controlled by Citrolopram(anti depressant)as when i came off them my sweats came back with a vengance..
Regards
Carolyn
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe headaches
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn If you use only 1/8th tsp, and it's probably got no more than 16mg per ml of cream, you're getting no more than 10mg/day. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I recommend 10-20 times that amount! Hot flushes need about 400mg/day or more, but they will go, never to return. There's no need for any antidepressant. Once the hot flushes are under control, the amount should be reduced very slowly, by no more than 16mg per reduction. Staying on the reduced amount for a few days before reducing further. I still use about 170mg/day, varying the amount as and when needed. Stress drops levels so I use more when stressed. Oestrogen disturbs blood glucose, in fact it's one of the causes of Insulin Resistance. Whereas progesterone, by suppressing oestrogen prevents the disturbance. Progesterone also reduces glycerol levels in the blood. You could be short of vitamin D, as this also disturbs blood glucose, leading to insulin resistance. It's also a potent anti-inflammatory. Please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. As Joy says, progesterone is excellent for headaches, see here, here, here, here and here. A lack of vitamin D is also implicated in migraines, see here, here and here. Take care Wray
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Carolyn - Oh dear you are not using anywhere near the amount of progesterone that is required! An 1/8 of a teaspoon is merely aggravating the situation. Nothing less than 100mg - 6ml or a heaped teaspoon should be used. More cream is often needed depending on how severe the symptom is, normally anything from 200mg to 400mg will help hot flushes. The cream should also be used twice a day to keep the progesterone level stable. It can also be used during the day should you feel a hot flush coming on.

I am rather dismayed that you have been given an anti depressant to help your hot flushes, this is only making the situation worse! You really do not need them. By using the correct amount of progesterone and making it the dominant hormone your hot flushes will be gone in no time and you will begin to feel much better. I have not had a hot flush in over 5 years now!!!

The cream (Natpro) can be used anywhere on the body, I even use it on my tongue as it helps with a burning sensation that I have.

Take care.
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray,
Thanks you very much for your prompt reply.
Before i start to use an increased amount of cream could you please confirm i have picked you up properly..my NPG states 1/8th tsp am pm (Serenity).I was recommened this cream by a herbalist and she described it as a pea sized amount? She also has starting using Napto so that is what i will be using when this one is finished.Could you also explain why the headache is so severe when you are having a break from progesterone during the month when i rarely suffer from headaches.I am very pleased that you have said i no longer need the break because that was the only adverse reaction i was getting, other than that i felt wonderful.
I was also advised to use Natural phyto-estrogen cream for bad hot flushes,,but only to be used if i was on progesterone aswell?
Regards

Carolyn
Feb 18, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray, Joy,

Firstly i must thank you both for your immedaite reply's, it feels good to know there is support out there:
Today is a much better day than the day before,,my headache was dreadful but i took your advise and immediatly increased the dose.
I will continue with the increased amount and am confident that this is a new start for me.
The cirolopram were given as an alternative to HRT and to be honest do keep my hot flushes at bay,,however i now feel confident that i will be able to slowly withdraw from them also.
One final question, how long do you think it may take to feel totally happy with NPG without thinking are there any other side effects around the corner.
Regards
Carolyn
Feb 19, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn I wasn't far wrong in my estimate, the cream you are currently using contains 21mg/ml of cream. Which means 1/8th tsp will give you 13mg progesterone, used twice a day and you'll get 26mg. So If you do want to get rid of the hot flushes, you'll have to use 19ml of cream per day, or 3.8tsp! You might like to read this page here. It is long, but gives you an idea of what the low amount does. Stopping the progesterone allows oestrogen to rise again. Oestrogen is an excitatory, inflammatory hormone, hence the headaches. I don't believe any oestrogen is needed, even natural oestrogen, they all have the same effect. For more info see our page on HRT. And how long?!?! I wish I could tell you. It's evident you have excess oestrogen, high amounts of progesterone are needed to suppress it. The lower the amount used the longer it will take. Hence my advice to use high amounts. If you want advice on lowering the cirolopram, please see our page on Natural Antidepressants Do let us know how you get on. Take care Wray
Feb 24, 2012
 Severe Headache
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray,

So far so good,,any minor headaches i have had have been held at bay by using progesterone.

I am really suffering badly with night sweats,,are these a good sign that it is my body adjusting accordingly,,i hope so as i so want to stay on the progesterone cream as long as i need it. I have read so many reports on the benefits and understand a lot more on how beneficial the cream can be.
PS also no chocolate for a week, and i have not even had any cravings,,may have a treat at the weekend...

Regards

Carolyn
Feb 25, 2012
 Severe Headache
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn So pleased the headaches are being kept at bay! You don't say how much progesterone you're now using, but I've found 400mg/day or more is needed to stop any Hot Flushes or night sweats. This page gives info on what possibly causes them, and what else can be done. Interesting you say the cravings have gone too, progesterone does that, I'm so pleased. Take care Wray
Feb 25, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Joy (South Africa)

Yahoo Carolyn - so happy that the headaches have gone. Stick with it and up your dose to 400mg as Wray's suggests and before long, your hot flushes will be a thing in the past too.

Good luck.
Feb 25, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray,

Thanks again for your prompt reply.
I will increase the amount and i'm confident i can lose my Hot Flushes once i get the balance correct.
The hot flushes have only returned since i started using the cream, having read your comments on Hot Flushes i now understand why.
I will keep in touch,,but i am feeling so good already..

Regards
Carolyn
Feb 26, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn So relieved about this! And please let us know, I see Joy is delighted too. As we've both had hot flushes we empathise with you. Take care Wray
Nov 11, 2012
 2 periods now
by: Anonymous

Hi there!

I've been using an increased dose of progesterone (prob 1/4 of the tube at least) and I have seen huge improvements in my symptoms. It did take a while to realize that my does was too low and I had new symptoms as a result.

It's great to go a month without severe cramps or night sweats! My only concern is that I've had a period twice this month and a lot of spotting the month before. Has anyone else experienced this and is it just a matter of time before things settle down?

I don't take any breaks from applying the cream, I apply in the am and pm.

Thanks,
Nik
Nov 12, 2012
 2 periods now
by: Wray

Hi Nik I'm so delighted the higher amount has helped you. Progesterone can upset the cycle, it usually occurs when first starting it. But increasing substantially as you've done, can also cause it. It should settle down, although I have found in some women using it daily bleeding comes and goes when it pleases. It also depends on your age too. If you're in Peri-menopause cycles do become erratic. There's nothing we can do about it either. No amount of progesterone, or trying to follow a cycle helps. The ovaries are slowly shutting down and have a mind of their own. Take care Wray
Nov 19, 2012
 Spotting.Multiple periods
by: Nik

Thanks Wray!

I just turned 31 and had regular periods before starting the progesterone but with severe symptoms along with it. I hope it's not peri-menopause! I still think of myself as young and could have a family in a couple years. Sounds like I just need to give it some more time... hopefully :)

Thankful for all that it has helped with so far!

Nik
Nov 24, 2012
 Spotting.Multiple periods
by: Wray

Hi Nik Well it's definitely not peri-menopause! A long way off, as that only starts about 5 to 10 years before Menopause, the average age of this is 51. So yes, time is all that's needed now. Let us know how things go. Take care Wray
Mar 29, 2013
 Trying to overcome estrogen dominance
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray, How long does it take to get back into balance again? I have been taking compounded Progesterone 20% cream with a dose of 1/4 TSP 2x a day plus oral Progesterone oil caplets of 300mg per day (no break). I have done this for about 2.5 years. So far I still have high estrogen, hypoglycemia, oily skin, migraines, low libido and prolonged menstral bleeding during the month with only about 8-10 days where I am not bleeding. By the way I am 42 years old and have had menstral bleeding problems since age 30. And my mother has had all of these same problems too, only her answer back in the day was just to get a hysterectomy. My doctor's answer so far has just been to continually up my dose of Progesterone, and have me take a lose dose of Armour Thyroid at 90 MG a day, along with 5000iu of Vit D. Please help.
Mar 29, 2013
 How long?
by: Eve

If you continue to increase your dose and don't get the results expected, I suggest considering that your receptor sites need some attention. This was where I found myself over 2 years ago. It took some time to find a doctor who could help me understand why I needed so much progesterone and still came up "low". My brain was not seeing the progesterone and was signalling to send more even though my body was flooded with the hormone. To fix this communication problem, I was prescribed 1200 mg alpha lipoic acid (work your way up as it may cause digestive upset at first). ALA is a powerful antioxidant (naturally found in the body) and has a long list of benefits. Through this I was able to reduce my dosage down (titrating down over time) from 600-800 mg/all month to 150 mg day 14-26 of my cycle. At the same time, there are likely other systems involved with your hormone imbalance. I would suggest looking at your digestion (absorption, gut flora, yeast, bacteria etc), nutrition, liver function etc. Best wishes to your health!
Mar 30, 2013
 Trying to overcome estrogen dominance
by: Wray

Hi there Certainly not 2.5 years! I'm surprised the 500mg/day is not helping you yet. But as Eve says there are so many systems to look at, gut is very important, so is inflammation, and ALA is a powerful antioxidant. The oral progesterone won't be helping much, it's the least effective Delivery system, "The liver and gut region removed a mean of 96 per cent of the progesterone entering these tissues", see here. I wouldn't bother with it. Is the progesterone in the cream you are using well absorbed, have they done Saliva Tests on it? Depending on the composition of the cream, can depend the absorption of the progesterone. It could be you are not getting the full amount. The hypoglycaemia can be a result of high oestrogen, it disturbs blood glucose, whereas progesterone does not, see here. The oily skin is usually caused by testosterone, has anyone tested this? Progesterone is excellent for both Migraines and Libido. The bleeding is usually stopped with the amount you're using. But obviously it's not helping. I would ask you to consider taking at least 2000mg/day NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), 2000mg/say taurine, at least 5000iu vitamin D, and 1000mg/day bioflavonoids. The NAC inhibits the MMPs which break down the lining, there's more info on our Menstruation page. Taurine is always low in any dysfunctional uterine problem, including bleeding, see here. Vitamin D is a potent anti-inflammatory and antioxidant and the bioflavonoids strengthen capillaries, see here and here. The first paper has no abstract, but the second gives a resume of it. Continued below
Mar 30, 2013
 Trying to overcome estrogen dominance Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there And most important, have a vitamin D test please. I suspect your level is far too low, and you should be taking at least 10,000iu per day if not more. Vitamin D is vital for the normal functioning of all cells, not least the thyroid. It could be this is all it needs, see here, here, here, here, here and here. A lack can cause migraines and it affects libido adversely. Finally if vitamin D is too low it reduces the benefits of progesterone, see here, here and here. I'm beginning to think no one should bother with progesterone unless they get their vitamin D level up very high. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray
Mar 30, 2013
 How long?
by: Wray

Hi Eve Thanks of this info, so valuable! ALA is a remarkable antioxidant, as it's both water and fat soluble and can regenerate endogenous antioxidants, such as vitamin E, vitamin C, and glutathione, and prevent oxidative damage. Since most of our diseases are caused by oxidative stress, it's an all important antioxidant. It's also involved in the energy cycle and the production of ATP. In fact it goes into all the complexes we make as I believe it's so vital. Take care Wray
Apr 23, 2013
 DIM (Di-indolylmethane) and progesterone
by: Mel

Hi Wray,

I came across your page while researching symptoms that have led me to believe I have estrogen dominance. I also happen to have a lump in my breast, and am trying to treat naturally. I began taking DIM (Di-indolylmethane) because it seems to be helpful in lowering estrogen. The bottle recommends 2 per day, up to 4 per day if you have a specific issue such as mine that you are in need of lowering estrogen significantly. I also started on progesterone cream (approx 100 mg per day divided in two doses). The first month, my period went for an extra day or two, so I lowered DIM from 4 to 3 (I am ALWAYS clockwork on my cycles, exactly 28 days, bleeding for 7). This seemed to get things back on track. I upped the DIM to 4 again after a few weeks, and now am bleeding as if a regular period, only 7 days after the regular one ended. PLUS, I usually have fairly heavy bleeding, but now is even heavier - very heavy. I can lower the DIM again, but am interested in the possible mechanism at work here. You seem to have a very good understanding of the different hormones, and their effects, so was wondering what you think of potentially LOWER estrogen causing heavy bleeding. I expected the opposite, if anything. Can't find any reference to increased bleeding with DIM online, and only limited info to lower estrogen and heavier bleeding. Please advise....
Apr 24, 2013
 DIM (Di-indolylmethane) and progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Mel DIM does help some women, others not. DIM is regarded as an anti-oestrogen. Oestrogen is broken down into 2 principle metabolites, 2-hydroxyestrone (2-OHE1) and 16-alpha hydroxyestrone (16alpha-OHE1). 16alpha-OHE1 is regarded as a potent oestrogen, whereas 2-OHE1 is a weaker oestrogen. In some studies DIM (3,3'-Diindolylmethane) increased levels of 2-OHE1, by doing so it also increases the ratio of 2-OHE1:16alpha-OHE1. This increased ratio is associated with a lower risk for breast cancer in some studies, not in others. It appears to have a positive affect on pancreatic, thyroid, prostate and gastric cancers too, and leukemia. The precursor to DIM is Indole 3 Carbinol (I3C) which also has antioxidant and anti-cancer properties. These are a selection of papers here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here It could be the DIM upsetting the cycle, but more likely the progesterone as this often does when first starting it, making it either earlier or later than normal. It can also cause bleeding to become heavier too. We do have a page on Menstruation which explains why this is so, and what nutrients to take to stop it. I've generally found if bleeding is heavy and/or continual that 400mg/day progesterone is needed. We also have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream, and please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. Take care Wray
May 01, 2013
 Thanks Wray, found an interesting article
by: Anonymous

Wray,

Thank you so much for your reply. I read all of the articles you referenced for me, as well as many other articles and question /answer posts on your website. I really appreciate all of the information available here, and your obvious dedication to helping others.

After considering the symptoms associated with starting progesterone at lower doses, and my strong feeling that I am estrogen dominant, I upped the progesterone and feel that it helped a lot. Bleeding stopped within a day or two.

I continue to read, and have come across many references to recomendations that those with breast cancer avoid progesterone because it can actually encourage tumor growth. Since I know I need the progesterone, but am concerned about it's impact on the lump in my breast (which is currently undiagnosed - could be benign but could be cancerous), I looked for evidence of progesterone's impact on tumors. I came across this article that I thought may interest you. Possibly you've seen it, but it supports your idea that larger doses of progesterone are likely better than smaller doses, which are commonly recommended by doctors. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188857/#b33-10_255_atif

The anecdotal evidence that higher doses of progesterone have a positive impact, from a large number of women reporting on your website that your advice has helped them and solved long-standing problems, is great. But sometimes people want hard evidence, studies, etc to back it up. This one seems to do that. I hope that there are additional studies along these lines to further the investigation into how dose impacts results in these studies.
May 01, 2013
 Thanks Wray, found an interesting article
by: Wray

Hi Mel I entirely overlooked your reference to a breast lump, I'm so sorry, I got fixated on the DIM. We do have a page on Breast Cysts you could look through. If it is benign progesterone helps, if it's not, progesterone also helps. Why they say it will encourage tumour growth I don't know. There are many papers on our Cancer page you can go through. I need to re-do the page, it's a bit of a mess! I'm delighted you look for studies and not at blogs, so refreshing for me! I have seen that paper you gave above, in fact I did a page on it as I was so excited, see here. I am recommending any person with cancer to use 1000-2000mg/day, knowing how low amounts stimulate oestrogen. Emory University are coming out with such good news about progesterone, all Donald Stein's work, he's been studying it for 40 years now. They published a study on Traumatic Brain Injury in 2006 and found progesterone the only substance to reverse the damage done. Most of the patients were men too. They used over 1200mg/day via IV transfusion. No gradual increase either, or using a low amount as most women are advised. Although they don't say how they arrived at that amount, too low to my mind, they did find that going cold turkey off the progesterone caused severe adverse symptoms. So they recommend tapering off. This is something I've been trying to get across for years now too. It allows oestrogen to rise, even in men. Progesterone is an aromatase inhibitor, aromatase is the enzyme which effects the conversion of testosterone to oestrogen, in women too, see here, here, here, here, here, and here. Continued below
May 01, 2013
 Thanks Wray, found an interesting article Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Mel Ironically aromatase inhibitors are given to both men and women for cancer, to bring oestrogen down. Further studies on TBI found adding vitamin D enhanced the effect of progesterone, see here, here and here. Which is why I'm fixated on vitamin D now, asking everyone to have a test and get their level up high. I'm actually finding that if levels are low, it's almost not worth trying progesterone. I struggle with some who increase their progesterone, when I know they need to increase their vitamin D levels to get the full benefit. I wouldn't hesitate to get mine to 150ng/ml if I had cancer, or any other disease for that matter, it's at 92ng/ml currently. Thanks again for giving that paper, I might not have seen it, so I always welcome any such studies. I don't appreciate the many comments I get which are very obviously taken from blogs! Take care Wray
Sep 10, 2013
 Anxiety from Progesterone
by: Anonymous

Wray,

I have tried Natpro before without success and actually made my symptoms worse.

I just started taking vitamin D co factors boron,vitamin k, ect. and tried rubbing on about 2 teaspoons 80 mg I think, and just had a sever anxiety panic attack which ive never had in my life. This tells me that the progesterone is working this time, but how do I avoid this from happening again? I am hesitant to use more. Would starting with a dose od 400 mg avoid anxiety symptoms. It is odd because I have been told I have estrogen dominance yet physically I don't look like I do. Please help
Sep 11, 2013
 Anxiety from Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi there I suspect the amount you were using previously was not high enough. And of course you are now taking vitamin D and that has helped, although not in a way you expected! And 80mg/day could have made things worse. I normally recommend 100-200mg/day, but if symptoms are severe then far more is needed. Most of the symptoms of Oestrogen Dominance are not physical, in fact they are mainly emotional/mental problems we experience. We do have a page on Anxiety which will hopefully explain the panic attack. 400mg/day would help, but before you try it, please read these comments from other users of high amounts here, here, here and here. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Jan 29, 2014
 not sure what to do
by: Anonymous

Hello Wray,

I hope you can give me some advice.
I took the Birth Control Pill several years ago. Within 3 month I started to feel very sick. I was so exhausted I can't even tell and had severe headaches, so I stopped taking it immediately. But the symptoms remained. So I had my thyroid checked, my TSH levels were a bit elevated but the thyroid itself was healthy. I was put on thyroid hormones but they didn't help at all, they even made things worse. And this is my situation today: I'm so tired all the time, I have so much water in my body that my face is completely swollen and worst of all I have hirsutism. So I had some blood work done at 23 day of the cycle and the results are: Prog. 832(410-2520), Estradiol 331(22-256), Estrone 173(50-114).
I have a Prog. cream but not sure how much to take. I tried 60mg one day but only felt worse and got headaches again.

Do you think the Estrogen could explain all my symptoms? I'm 28 years old, my cycles are normal but I'm so tired and full of water, the thyroid medication doesn't help at all, I just don't know what to do.
Hope you can help me.
Feb 27, 2014
 where do i even begin?
by: missy

dear wray,
hi :) i understand you're on a very well deserved sabbatical, and also you help so many others and i would understand if you didn't have enough time to help me, but, i'm just hoping...

maybe this isn't even stuff you/progesterone can help with, but if nothing else thank you for allowing me to get this off my chest...

okay, im 32 years old and, my health is in crisis -

i can't stop gaining weight, despite restricting calories or carbs, or exercising, and,

i have numerous health problems - which increase as my weight does, or Perhaps it is the health problems causing the weight gain!

i live in a very bad situation, and don't have access to diagnostic tests, so i have to figure all this out by myself.

i seem to have symptoms (which i'll detail after) of polycystic ovaries, and/or elevated testosterone, as well as estrogen dominance, and possibly (not meaning to sound like a hypochondriac, sorry!) thyroid and also damage from glutamate/monosodium glutamate.

i gained weight/am obese, developed excess hair, oily skin, crushing fatigue, major anxiety, and EXTREME brain fog and memory loss(which i have reason to believe might be caused by glutamate, not just hormones or thyroid troubles), to the point where i'm afraid i'm going to get, or already have, god forbid, alzheimer's.

and now, the most worrisome issue yet - i am having SEVERE tenderness in only ONE breast, and i'm terrified it could be cancer...

(the tenderness...i can't tell if it's localized, i seem to feel it in two places, along the top of the breast towards the inner, and outer half of my breast, but i don't know whether it really moves around, or whether the pain comes from one place but just affects that whole area.

i also cant tell if it's cyclical. i think a problem has been brewing for a long time and i didnt realize :( ...and the obvious pain, i've had that for about 3 cycles now... the first two, i think the pain went when my period would start, then would start up again, but the third cycle i dont think it went away when my period started ...and i'll get into what's going on, now, in a little bit...)

TO BE CONTINUED... :)
Feb 27, 2014
 where do i even begin? pt2
by: missy

that is what lead me to learning about the bad side of estrogen, and about the benefits of progesterone therapy,

so i bought a spray formula (because i need something that is very light to absorb, due to my oily skin - at least for now),

and i have been on 40mg a day - because i read about dr. john lee using that amount to clear up fibrocystic breasts (my thinking is that in my case, estrogen might be causing "C" in my breast and, i want to oppose the estrogen) -

and, for the first few days i felt okay, and i thought the tenderness in my breast was going away, but now after 13 days i started spotting, and am now having breakthrough bleeding and it may turn into a full period,

and, as happens every month when i get my period, i am getting very sick - nauseous, HOT, and feel as though the room is spinning,

and my breast today is extremely painful :(

...after now reading your information, i realize it may be because i'm using too few mg, but i have no idea how high i should go. do you think 1-200mg is enough or, what do you recommend? i'm willing to go as high as necessary, the only question i wanted to ask is...

i might be misinformed and if i am, please let me know... i think i read somewhere that progesterone (similar to, but not prEGNENOLone, i double checked) can be converted in the body into other hormones, and,
that adipose/fat tissue generates and retains estrogen (and/or testosterone) and, well, since i have so much fat :( im worried that upping the progesterone i use will just turn in to more estrogen and/or testosterone...

do you happen to know anything about that?

i just don't want to make my health even worse...

and i am so worried about my breast, the last thing i want to do is inadvertently give any estrogen to any... "C" that might be growing :(

other than my hormone nightmares, i definitely think my vitamin d levels MUST be low, because i'm never able to go outside in the sun... i've just started taking a loading dose of vitamin d, first i started 10,000mg once a week, but then i thought if vitamin d lasts only 3 days in the body, perhaps i should take it twice a week, but half that much? (5,000mg, 2x a week)

...and after a while of that, i don't know how much i should take as a maintenance dose, bearing in mind that i NEVER see the sun...any ideas?

i understand your advice isNT medical advice...thanks for being there! :) missy
Mar 08, 2014
 To Missy
by: Danica

My heart goes out to you. I read your comment very late tonight, but want to at least write to you the following: Please get Dr Michael Platt's book, The Miracle of bioidentical hormones. He has a new one coming out too you should get on Adrenaline Dominance. You could order it on his web site
Plattwellness.com or Amazon. PLEASE read his book. I think you will get a lot of great info. Write me back after you read it. Blessings:) Danica
Mar 11, 2014
 Where do I even begin?
by: Joy

Hi Missy

As Wray is on sabbatical, I will try to address your query as best I can. It is always good to share things and to ‘get things of your chest’ as you put it. Sometimes we just turn the problem over and over in our minds, and often land up being so confused, so sharing is important. You have certainly had a torrid time, but reading your post I can pick up a sense of humour, which is so very important, it helps so much, hang onto that however difficult things may appear at times.

There are so many people out there battling with weight gain despite being careful of what they eat and exercising etc and achieve nothing, which of course depresses one. Please try the Ketogenic Diet, excellent results are being achieved, not only for weight problems, but for health in general. Wray often suggests the diet to people. s You can always order home tests via ZRT Labs and Birmingham Hospital seeing that you do not have access to this facility.

Please read this post on Wray’s website about glutamate toxicity, it may help you to understand things – see here.

Now all your symptoms indicate Estrogen Dominance. As you do not have access to tests and can’t be tested for PCOS, perhaps the online tests can do this for you, but your symptoms also indicate PCOS. It appears that your testosterone level is high, hence the excess hair and oily skin but it also indicates PCOS. Your painful breast is an Estrogen Dominance symptom too. I know exactly what you feel like regarding your painful breast, I had it too, it was dreadful and terribly painful. But since using progesterone I have never had a cyst on my breast or ovaries again, thank goodness. Rubbing Natpro progesterone cream on the painful breasts helps greatly as it is an excellent anti-inflammatory.

Continued .......
Mar 11, 2014
 Where do I even begin?
by: Joy

Hi Missy

Now by using 40mg of progesterone is your first mistake, the minimum recommended amount to use is nothing less than 100mg/3ml per day, more if symptoms are severe. Dr John Lee’s knowledge of progesterone is excellent, but he was a bit off regarding the amount to be used. By using too little it creates terrible estrogen dominance symptoms, to overcome these symptoms, higher amounts are needed. It is very important that you chose a progesterone cream that contains the correct progesterone concentration too. Please read How to use Progesterone Cream.

The body converts pregnenolone into progesterone, see how it works here. Progesterone does not cause weight gain, excess estrogen does as it is a mitogen, stimulating cells to divide and grow, including fat cells. Estrogen also causes Insulin Resistance, this slows everything down, including the thyroid.

As you hardly ever go into the sun, you will surely be Vitamin D deficient. A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone, it is also connected to every single cell in our bodies makes it vital. Vitamin D should be taken daily, nothing less than 5 000iu’s per day, but I believe you should take 10 000iu’s DAILY.

I see Danica has replied to your post and recommends Dr Michael Platt’s book on The Miracle of Bio-identical Hormones. Please consider getting the book, he is very knowledgeable on progesterone. A very good friend of mine visits him often, and she has the utmost respect for him and his work on natural progesterone.

Hope this helps you.
Mar 11, 2014
 thanks danica :)
by: missy

dear danica,

thanks so much for taking the time to help me :)

i'm not sure i'll be able to afford the book(s), or that i would even understand if i tried to read it/them--that's the extent my brain fog is to...i feel so dense! :( ...but if i ever can afford the book(s), maybe i'll try...

and while i, patiently :), wait to see if wray can respond(don't mind waiting, and hope she's resting and happy :)),

i went up from 40mg to 80mg progesterone which, i know is still not much, but is all i can afford right now...

without being able to afford (you must be noticing a theme, here lol sorry) saliva tests, im not sure what my levels are and i just wish i knew i could know if i am making things better, or worse -

any other estrogen misery, i can ride out until i can afford to increase the dosage, but the situation with my breast worries me...

for that, i'm trying to eat only between 12:30pm and 5:30pm, because - this is just my understanding from what i'm trying to learn -

i read that any food eaten outside that time can cause your blood sugar to surge, and that can cause any tumor to grow(yikes!),

and i know it would be better to not eat any carbs at all, because carbohydrates feed cancer(double yikes!),

but for the time being i have to eat what i'm able to get, which unfortunately relies somewhat on carbs...

i'm also consuming 16 apricot kernels a day, as they are supposed to selectively target cancer cells. the maintenance amount seems to be 8, but with therapeutic amounts going several times that, but i'm doing 16 and seeing how i feel...

i am also going to add in a few days, massage of my under-arm area (both under-arms, i dont want this to happen to the other breast as well!) with a mixture of liquid cilantro,

and "dmso," a substance that may help it penetrate... (to anyone else considering using dmso, make sure you get one that comes in a glass bottle, and do all you can to get one whose contact with plastic has been limited, because dmso can dissolve plastic[!], and you don't want that getting into your bodily tissues[!]),

to try to clear first my under arms, then after a week or so, my breasts...

so far, the swelling in my breast seems to have gone down - even as my time of the month approaches, which usually it would be getting worse now ...though when i touch the area, i do still feel a twinge, and i by NO means think that i am safe.

i am just trying to manage it, until i am able to get medical care, and definitely to anyone reading this, if you are going thru something similar, if you are able, please see a doctor(!).

if it would be okay, i'll keep everyone posted...please wish me luck...

thank you again danica for taking the time to help me, it really means a lot! ~missy
Mar 12, 2014
 thanks, joy :)
by: missy

dear joy,
hi :) thank you as well for taking the time to try to help me! :) i'm sorry i didn't say so in my last post - i didn't notice yours...or it somehow snuck in there after danica's! :)

thank you, im finally starting to understand all of this - but i so wish (and am feeling quite sorry for myself, and all us ladies here, and all the others who havent yet found out) i knew about the dark side of estrogen so many years ago, before it had taken such a toll on my health...well now im just going to do the best i can to reverse the damage...

(i want to give a testimony to the danger of "xeno-estrogens" - the danger there is the REAL DEAL:

for the last 6 months to a year, i've added daily vegetables to my diet and, _the vegetables have been great_, however,

i've had to use a microwave and _plastic bowl_ to cook them and, i kept thinking how i felt like im getting worse instead of better...coincidence? i think not!

i think the plastic bowl and microwaving has been harmful - from now on i am going to cook them on the stove using a tempered glass pot, and eat from a glass bowl!)

i know its still not enough, but im now up to 80mg progesterone and even with that i think(?) i could be doing better, although without being able to afford a saliva test i wish i could know for sure,
i am worried that i am just waking up more estrogen receptors (and, does that happen every time you increase the dose??),
but i just have to hang in there...i'd like to go up but just can't afford any more for now

i am just concerned about my breast. your comment seemed to imply that you also had pain in one, just one, of your breasts? that the pain is in just one of my breasts is what has been worrying me that the pain and swelling are not just cycle related or "just fibrocystic breasts," but rather "C"...

(note to anyone out there who happens to try apricot kernels as one therapy...they are hard on your teeth! it has made the side of my mouth where i chew them, where i also have a touchy root canaled tooth, as well as the ear on that side, swell up...

from now on i think i am going to use a mortar and pestle to break the kernels down before having them ...and add having that tooth pulled now to my list of things to do, ugh :))

by the way, before i submit this post, i had to mention that the captcha code to submit this comment is..."crisis." how true lol! i just thought that was funny :)

...sorry i wrote so much in my posts :)

thanks joy for your help! it's so nice of those of you who help! :)
Apr 02, 2014
 Thanks
by: Joy

Hi Missy

I am so pleased that things are making sense for you now, it took me a while before the penny dropped and things made sense too. Once Estrogen Dominance is understood completely, then things start to fall into place. The appropriate action is needed too don’t forget! lol. ED is torrid, confusing, frightening and frustrating, if one refuses to deal with it, it will get you nowhere!

Take care not to use the sweet type vegetables, and I know that when Wray reads this about cooking in a microwave she will have a ‘frothy’, she detests them and will not have one in her home! You made a good change. Please read the page on Environmental Toxins, you will see just how toxic plastic is. So anything that can be eliminated as far as toxins go, then great. There are over 100 estrogen mimics in our environment as it is. It is a constant battle and so difficult avoiding it.

I agree, 80mg is not enough, nothing less than 100mg per day is needed, more if symptoms are severe. Try not to stress too much about not having a test, stress will simply help to destroy progesterone, it does the same with vitamin D.

As for the cysts in my breast, it was only the one breast, the same one all the time, same with my one ovary, always the same one. Before I discovered progesterone the pain was excruciating, one time I actually had a cyst growing on top of the original cysts! I think I would rather have another baby than to go through that pain again, it was terrible. I never once thought it was the big “C”, but again worrying about it will upset your body, try to have a test done if you are worried. Keep rubbing Natpro on your breast, rub it on any painful area actually. Until progesterone becomes the dominant hormone, the cysts will remain, so please increase the amount of Natpro used.

I just love your sense of humour, hope your teeth have recovered and your captcha code had me in fits of laughter.

Take care.
Apr 23, 2014
 my progress...and a request(okay, a few)
by: missy

hi joy :) i'm sorry i've taken so long to get back, this time - thanks for replying to me, too! and thank you so much for your compliments, i'm so enjoying talking to you too! :)

well, it's been about 2 months since my first post and, sadly the terrible pain in one breast continues...
i'm up to 120mg a day now on the progesterone (and i've increased my vitamin d to: *25*,000iu 2x weekly AND 10,000iu on all other days, still don't feel better in any way, but hope i am getting my levels up...) and i guess it's still not enough,

i wish i could afford labs to get an idea of my progesterone ratio and to get an idea how much more i'll need to raise the progesterone to get it to be the dominant hormone and keep it at the ideal ratio

...i don't know how much i can afford to raise the dose of progesterone - honestly the cost is making me go broke :(

(i had wanted to ask wray, for if/when she sees this, could you please consider working on an even more concentrated formula[i know natpro is already very concentrated, but maybe somehow even more so? there is one company out there that mixes their usp progesterone with only coconut oil, so it's very concentrated, BUT ~you do such a service for women, and i'd much rather buy from you~],

AND could you please also make it available in a JUMBO size [heck, 16 ounces as a starter? :) ...a gallon?! :) is there any such thing as too much progesterone? :)], and in a [bpa-free, please?] pump bottle?

i know this is a lot to ask, but i ask only because...of the expense but also, a lot of ladies, at the dose needed for them, go through regular size tubes so fast...

and bpa-free so we wouldn't have to worry - like with other companies, not yours - about the progesterone itself being in an estrogenic bottle :)

and, a pump because, it would be so helpful to know how many mg are in each pump and, that way every time i used a pump i'd know how much i was getting, no measuring needed?

if you could make these things possible, i would be so excited! :))

in the mean time as i carry on my war, i was wondering, joy, if might happen to know...
on the issue of, progesterone waking up estrogen receptors... do you happen to know if you wake up More estrogen receptors every time you increase the dose again? because if that's the case, whew it's going to be an uphill battle! :)

smiles :) missy
Apr 28, 2014
 my progress...and a request(okay, a few)
by: Joy

Hi Missy

You do make me laugh.

It does take time and two months is clearly not enough time for you, anything from 2 to 6 months, possibly longer, depending on how severe symptoms are, progesterone therapy is not an overnight fix. I realise that cost is a factor, but I still do not believe you are using enough progesterone. Remember when you first wrote in you were using 40mg, then you increased to 80mg. I believe you should be using 200mg, possible more, until your symptoms improve. Are you rubbing the cream on your painful breast? Progesterone does activate the estrogen receptors when too little progesterone is used, so yes, it can become an high hill battle, but it need not be.

I understand the frustration of not being able to have tests done, but to be honest with you, you will know when progesterone is the dominant hormone when your symptoms clear, so go by your symptoms if you can’t afford the tests.

I can’t see Wray bringing out a higher concentrated formula, the same applies to jumbo size tubes, the cost is great to do this. As for a pump bottle, a survey was run and majority came back with a flip cap. Again, the cost of a pump bottle would affect the price of Natpro. The plastic used for the tubes is LDPE plastic and is one of the safe plastics, see here and here. Wray would never use a plastic that is not safe, it goes against everything that she believes in.

Take care.
Apr 30, 2014
 just checking...
by: Anonymous

even though using the progesterone cream faithfully, i have only been occasionally rubbing it on the painful breast occasionally, because i had read conflicting things about rotating application sites and i didnt want to take any chances ...if you think it wouldn't reduce the effectiveness, should i apply it there every day?

so...you think that each time the progesterone is increased, it activates more estrogen receptors again? i just want to double check about that, because, while obviously it's possible to make progesterone the dominant hormone...couldn't it be dangerous if i activate more and more estrogen receptors in the process?

i still hope that wray will consider the jumbo size thing, it's not even so much about savings, that, she wouldn't have to lose money on it,

for me it's in large part about being able to buy a big size and not go through bottles so fast(that yes i know would be expensive, per bottle, but i understand it would be multiple times the price because it would be multiple times the cost :)),

or a more concentrated version to help save packaging, for the planet...i always feel bad using so much...
if you say so :) about a flip cap tube being preferred, though i find it hard to imagine why it is, having to measure or estimate instead of knowing to use "2 pumps" and you're done :)

well thanks for all your help :)
Apr 30, 2014
 oops!
by: missy

oh shoot, that was me, missy!!! the last comment, forgot to fill in my name! :)
Oct 01, 2014
 Help! Gaining Weight
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray! I need your help. I have had debilitating fatigue for 5 years and then started progesterone 6 mos ago after saliva tests showed nearly no progesterone. ND started me on 50 mg at night of compounded Natural Progesterone cream. I gained 5 lbs. during first 2 months so I (on my own) reduced it to 25 mg at night. Continued to gain another 5 lbs. I know that was wrong after reading forum. I then increased it to 100 mg daily (50 mg at am/50 mg at pm). Still gained weight for 1 month. It helped some with my fatigue though. So, 20 lbs. later stopped cold turkey a few weeks ago but feel soooo very tired again. But I can't gain weight! I was obese all my adult life and lost 180 lbs. 12 years ago and have kept it off by great diet and exercise daily. I am willing to take Progesterone again, but need to know what dose I should take to NOT GAIN MORE WEIGHT. I just can't go down that road. HX is hysterectomy but have ovaries. My saliva test showed 213 pg/ml of progesterone and 2.38 of E2 estradiol. What dose would you recommend?
Oct 19, 2014
 Headaches,, tiredness, Still not sure how much to use
by: Deb, England

Hello

Firstly, thank you for this site, it was only coming across it that I have started using Wellsprings Progesterone cream and immediately went for a high dose. Not sure how much but a big dollop on my finger three times a day.

For two months felt so much better, no night sweats slept for 7 hours for the first time in two years, the daily flushes to zero. But the last month I wake with a headache, am tired the whole time and can sleep at the drop of a hat. My flushes are coming back and at 6am every morning I wake sweating.

I feel I should use even more but so difficult to make an informed decision. I tried to speak with my GP who suggested hyper tensive tablets or anti depressants, having never heard of progesterone cream. I do worry about what doctors learn at medical school. I no longer have a relationship with my GP and feel as though I am winging my menopause.

Any advice would be so welcome.

Many thanks

Deb
Oct 21, 2014
 Headaches,, tiredness, Still not sure how much to use
by: Wray

Hi Deb and Help! Gaining weight (somehow your comment was missed). Please contact Julienne via her email address here.... julesvs19@gmail.com
She will be able to help you both. Take care Wray
Oct 29, 2014
 Ketogenic diet
by: Vianne

Thank you for getting back to me about progesterone and weight loss. Regarding the Ketogenic diet - been there, done that. In the past 10 years I have tried every food combination/ exclusion I could find, including low carb/high protein & fat, and only continued to slowly gain weight. And yes, have had the thyroid checked - "perfect." I take 2000 units of D3 daily, and have tried all the other supplements you suggest (and many more). I get much more exercise and eat less and healthier now (and not a lot of carbs) than when I was younger. The ONLY thing that is different from 10 years ago and now is that I went through menopause, and am Estrogen Dominant. So, it makes sense to me - if progesterone decreased/estrogen explosion = weight gain, wouldn't progesterone increase to hormone balance = weight loss? Thanks again!
Jan 28, 2015
 Bio identical progesterone
by: Michele

I'm taking bio identical progesterone cream compounded in Nutrichem pharmacy . I want to know how many mg. I'm taking . I take .6 ml. Of 15% concentration of progesterone . This amount isn't alleviating my symptoms of heavy periods , yet low progesterone , moodiness , crying , joint stiffness , headaches , fatigue , low libido etc .

Hi Michelle You're getting 90mg. Each gram of cream contains 150mg progesterone, but the pharmacy should have told you this. Take care Wray
Mar 11, 2016
 Progesterone and nausea - perimenopause
by: Lily

Hi Wray
Firstly, thanks for all the info you have provided on this site. It's very helpful!

One question - I started using natural progesterone cream last year after suffering horrendous perimenopause symptoms. The worst was developing chronic migraine, severe brain fog, severe panic attacks, strange tremors, brain buzzes, you name it!...

The progesterone cream helped and I did as suggested and used more to calm symptoms down. But recently I seem to have hit a wall. All my symptoms are back with a vengeance and when I apply the progesterone cream, I am horribly nauseous within about 20 minutes of application. I've stopped using it now for about two weeks due to the nausea but I feel even worse and seem to be having a light period after 6 months of nothing! Uggh, swings and roundabouts! Would you suggest using even MORE cream when I get this nauseous? I'm not sure what to do for the best.

Thank you.
Jun 27, 2016
 Endometriosis and dosing.
by: Tamer

I have Endometriosis and need to know the amount of progesterone I should be applying.
Jul 03, 2016
 Endiometriosis dosing
by: Joy

Hi Tamer

If you type in Endometriosis in the search bar you can read all about it. Some are lucky enough to get away with using 200mg per day, but for the more severe cases, 400-500mg per day is needed plus anti-inflammatory nutrients mentioned on the page to help deal with the inflammation.

https://www.progesteronetherapy.com/faq-endometriosis.html#sthash.ijlcZCoA.dpbs
Apr 06, 2017
 Low estrogen
by: Angie

Hi, I have been on 20 mg of progesterone ozenges for 2 months. Long story short, found your site and am now going to supplement with natpro at least 200 MgS.

My Dr has blood tested me and it showed I was low in estrogen as well. I started bi-est cream 5 days ago and for last 3 days have had unbearable migraines.

I have been liberally applying natpro today but am confused. Why am I having symptoms of estrogen dominance now if my blood work says I'm low?

Please help..How do I bring my estrogen levels up without this pain?

Thank you!
Apr 07, 2017
 Re: Low Estrogen
by: Eve

When it comes to hormones, especially progesterone and estrogen, it's not just the number on the lab report, it's the balance between the two.

If you are low in progesterone and bump up (low or not) estrogen you create estrogen dominance (hence headache and many other symptoms).

Did you have symptoms of low estrogen before supplementing?
May 30, 2017
 Thank you DANICA, AND JOY
by: Missy

Dear Danica, and Joy,

...I just posted a(n inexcusably belated) Tribute To Wray, and ...I am reminded how much ~both of you~ have helped me with my health struggles,

and I want to Recognize, and Pay Tribute to YOU, Danica and Joy -

You Both have helped, and comforted, me - and so many others - so much -

and ~***no doubt, while both battling your own challenges in life***~ -

Thank You Both, More Than Words Can Say, For Being Here...

~You Are Appreciated~ -

God Bless You~

Love,
Missy
May 31, 2017
 Thank you DANICA and JOY
by: Joy

Hi Missy

Bless you for your kind words. I have just read your post on Tributes to Wray. I know that Wray would have appreciated every single word. No one knows the full extent of the personal battles one has to endure while on earth. I guess we all have to make the most of it and help each other as much as possible. This is what Wray did and she loved every minute of it. She was truly a remarkable, kind and caring person who is missed every single day.

I am pleased that I have been able to help you and offer some form of comfort.

Wishing you love and light.
May 31, 2017
 Smiles :)
by: Missy

Wishing you love and light as well! :)
Jul 09, 2017
 Dry Vagina so severe due to menopause
by: Lisa

Wray! You are my last hope!

I am hoping you can help me as I am suffering greatly from severe vaginal dryness. I have been on estrace and vagifem vaginally for four months now with zero relief.

I added 60 grams of progesterone cream daily for the last four weeks but still no improvement.

My diet is clean and healthy, all organic foods, no sugar or alcohol. I exercise regularly and get adequate sleep. Can you please advise? I have constant vaginal pain from the dryness especially when walking or sitting.

My gynecologist said there is nothing left that he can do for me. I've been to nine different doctors. I even tried three treatments of the Mona Lisa Laser and that did nothing to relieve my symptoms.

My quality of life is zero because of this. Please advise Wray! I am desperate! I am four years post menopause and am 54 years old. I don't want to live in pain for the rest of my life!
Jul 10, 2017
 Dry Vagina so severe due to menopause
by: Joy

Hi Lisa

Women are really dealt with some unpleasant conditions to deal with in our lives and dryness almost always takes place as we enter menopause. Everything starts to dry up, our skin, hair etc etc. There is no need for you to live in pain for the rest of your life at all.

Sadly what you have been using is not helping you at all. Some side effects of Estrance are breast pain; headache; vaginal itching or discharge: changes in your menstrual periods if you still have one, light vaginal bleeding or spotting; thinning scalp hair; or nausea, vomiting, bloating, stomach cramps. These sides effects are the exact reason why I do not agree that any woman needs to take extra estrogen. There are well over 100 estrogen mimics in our environment as it is, why would any woman want to take more? Why would doctors want to prescribe it? Please chuck what you have in the trash can and consider using a good organic progesterone cream such as Natpro. I am 62 and insert in my vagina every night to help with dryness and it works a charm.

Should you consider using Natpro please be aware of Estrogen Dominance symptoms which you will certainly have because of what has been prescribed to you and our environment. The How to use Progesterone Cream page will help you to understand what is needed, if not used correctly it will not work. I suggest 100-200mg of Natpro every day with no breaks at all, the moment you stop using it, symptoms will return. The 60mg that you have been using is not enough, and what is the progesterone concentration of that cream? If not correct it will aggravate your estrogen receptors, definitely not what you need.

Do you know what your Vitamin D3 level is? A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone and is connected to every single functioning cell in our bodies making it vital. Co-factors are needed especially magnesium and vitamin K2 (MK-7).

Please read these pages and the study references and don't give up. Take back your life with the correct use of progesterone.

Peri-Menopause

Menopause

Estrogen Dominance

How to use Progesterone Cream

Vitamin D3

Magnesium

Environmental Toxins
Feb 08, 2019
 Continue Progesterone???
by: Nancy

Hello!
I'm 48, and my periods have been erratic (bleeding a week, stops for a week). Then I went through a spell that I had my period for 3 weeks straight.

While still bleeding into my 3rd week, I started taking bioidentical progesterone cream, (3) times per day, equaling a total of 750mg. My period stopped in 3 days. It has been a little over two weeks and I still haven't bled (YAY!).

When can I start decreasing the dosage? And should I keep decreasing until I get a withdrawal bleed? Or, continuously take it at 750mg for a few months, but won't this prevent me from having a period for at least 3 months?

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