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Hard Luteal Cycle

by Sage
(CA/USA)

Hello Wray,
I just made a very large order of Natpro with my 1000mg/day doses and significant other now taking 300mg/day and several clients now using I must have enough on hand.

Ok to update you on me first of all the good news I can definitely feel the progesterone making changes. I am on day 25 of using the cream and day 24 of my cycle. I had a hard ovulation then came out of that fairly well. The progesterone feels like putting a blanket over the sharp edges and like there is a buffer to soften stress. I am sleeping well and do not have all the symptoms I was having but days 18-25 (today) have been very hard and harder than usual. I am assuming this is the estrogen dominance rising again. Even at this high dose I still am having trouble. Since day 18 I have felt anger, aggression, deep and hard crying at times low self-esteem, insecurity and a feeling of hopelessness and depression. This also seems worse this month and though in the past I have been used to all these and more at different levels during month but usually 1 or 2 days of very aggravated symptoms sometime during the 2 weeks before my period. Taurine is helping and making a big difference with anxiousness. Since taking 3000-4000mg divided doses daily anxiety much better.
Its mostly this low self-esteem, insecurity, hopelessness, depression, cravings, (some aggression only in few days during luteal phase) that are beyond hard.
And I know that some of this does take time but if there is anything else I can do besides wait for time to pass I would so appreciative.
I know that I am dealing with copper toxicity and I assume this could also be why I need such a high dose of progesterone and why some of these symptoms are so tough to get a hold of. Does progesterone alone assist copper in leaving the body????? I know zinc does and I am taking this. I know Dr. Lee talks about progesterone balancing the zinc to copper ratio but do you specifically what action progesterone has on copper. Or is it really only bringing the excess estrogen down then having an effect on the copper? I have been working on this for some now but being estrogen dominant and not taking progesterone i think makes it hard to feel better at all. Now its combining all of it.
Here is what I am taking: Vit D3 20,000-30,000 i.u., very potent pro-biotic, Taurine divided doses 4,000mg/day, Magnesium, Zinc 22-100mg- more during luteal, just stared Energy Boost 2 days ago.

The taurine was very clear cut it worked immediately and I know how much to use. The other aminos I’m not sure how much to take or how long to wait to avoid creating same symptoms. I thought Tyrosine, Tryptophan and Inositol and Glutamine would be helpful for the symptoms I’m having. I tried the Tryptophan at night with juice away from protein first 250, then 500 then 1000. No change I don’t know how long to hold the dose before raising as I certainly do not want to create symptoms but don’t want to suffer needlessly by taking only a little. I though tyrosine would be good for dopamine but again i don’t notice any change. I am taking 4000-6000mg inositol and don’t really notice anything with this either. I didn’t titrate up slowly with inositol I just went straight to the lower dose.

I know it is also getting just the right combination. I have ‘Mood Cure’ and Joan Mathews ‘Depression Free’. They both suggest staring out on higher doses of the aminos but it is easy to create imbalance by using too much of something. I know you have been doing this a long time and many of these things I have tried in the past but not with good results or consistency. Having the progesterone on board makes it easier to pin point what else may be helpful. But its using the right amount and enough time ? ? ? ?
Any ideas?

An important factor is that zinc definitely makes a difference. As I said earlier this is related to the copper. But I don’t take the same amount of zinc on the cycle or follicular phase because it will cause the same symptoms it relieves in the luteal.
What a journey this is trying to figure all this out just to be sane. The only thing I can figure is why I have gone through all this is to help others!!!!

I have other information for you on the ‘hidden copper’ indicators and a few other things. I will write in a different post. Oh I almost forgot I have been trying to find out how to get the Calming Complex and from reading posts went to Joys website and dropped an email requesting. No response. That was 1 week ago. But the Taurine seems to be helping with anxiety so not sure I still need but would like to know how to get it.
I thought I would try the Energy Boost for insulin resistance. I don’t know if this is going on but the symptoms you mention I do have: hard to focus, concentrate, brain fog ect.

Thank you again Wray and Many Blessings to you.

Comments for Hard Luteal Cycle

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Dec 14, 2012
 Hard Luteal Cycle
by: Wray

Hi Sage Bless you for coming back to me, with some good news at least! I must thank you for introducing it to others too. Your description of the progesterone acting as a buffer is good, it does lessen the stress response. I'm startled with the high amounts you're using that you still struggled this past luteal phase. Your oestrogen must be very high, made higher still by the surge we get mid-luteal phase. I wonder if by increasing the progesterone, only over that peak, whether it would help soften it. The peak normally occurs ± 7 days after ovulation or before bleeding, which would be around day 18 when you said it was worse. I'm delighted the taurine has helped you, I don't believe any of us have enough. Certainly not vegetarians as it's not found in veggies, only meat. We can convert it from cysteine, but this is such an important amino there's often not enough to go around. I can't remember if I gave you the link to the Safe Harbor website? On the home page is a list of subjects covered, William Walsh goes into copper toxicity, he's a great believer that this causes much grief. He's convinced it's the cause of some forms of depression, plus PND and that which occurs in Peri-menopause. Oestrogen increases levels, and depresses zinc. Progesterone does the reverse, so your high oestrogen would not help the situation. You could consider taking the zinc daily through your cycle, I understand you don't take it in the follicular phase? Tryp is a difficult one, I've found in some it can take 3 months to work. Others respond immediately. It could be you don't need it and instead need the tyrosine to raise dopamine. I've found this is often the case. This again often works immediately with some, not with others. Julia Ross seemed to find it worked quickly whoever took it. I have those two books, so excellent. I've tried both myself, but don't bother with the tryp now. Just have the tyrosine in the Energy Boost, which I can't do without. I find if I forget to take it, which is quite often, I get very tired in the afternoon. Tyrosine does need vitamin D for it's conversion to dopamine, and you're taking a very good dose of that! The EB contains 4000mg/dose each of inositol and glutamine, although I do add more glutamine to my water bottle, along with NAC (N-acetyl cysteine). The EB contains 500mg/dose, plus I must add about 2500mg more to my water bottle.
Continued below
Dec 14, 2012
 Hard Luteal Cycle Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Sage You could try the NAC too, as it does chelate heavy metals, which is another consideration, see here, here and here. The last paper points out it's also used for acetaminophen poisoning. And this "NAC has also been effective for heavy metal poisoning by gold, silver, copper, mercury, lead, and arsenic, as well as in cases of poisoning by carbon tetrachloride, acrylonitriles, halothane, paraquat, acetaldehyde, coumarin, and interferon." There are two others you could try, one is milk thistle, and the other is Ca-D glucarate. Oestrogen is metabolised in the liver by glucuronic acid, the process is known as glucuronidation. Glucuronidation is one of the major detoxification pathways of the liver. It removes carcinogens, toxins, tumour promoters, the sex hormones ie, the androgens and oestrogens, mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids, aromatic and heterocyclic amines, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, various nitrosamines, drugs, fungi etc. It's then excreted in the bile, but an enzyme in the intestine called beta-glucuronidase reverses the glucuronidation process. It breaks the glucoronide bond between a toxin and glucuronic acid, and releases carcinogens, toxins and excess steroid hormones back into circulation. There's evidence beta-glucuronidase activity is increased in breast and prostate cancer. Calcium D-glucarate inhibits beta-glucuronidase, see here, here, here and here. Incidentally this enzyme is produced by undesirable gut bacteria, supplementing with probiotics suppresses the bacteria, and subsequently the beta-glucuronidase. And you take a very good one you say. Silymarin from milk thistle also inhibits beta-glucuronidase, plus it helps the liver detox. Short of doing a complete bio-chemical analysis of your body, I don't think there's much else you can do. Beyond considering these other nutrients. If interested in the analysis, Mensah Medical do them. They work with William Walsh. I'm puzzled why you didn't get a response from Joy, as she's normally on her website. I'll try to contact her. Blessings to you too, take care Wray
Sep 29, 2016
 Copper IUD
by: Nicole

I am on the Exact same journey as Sage. I think my copper IUD could be a culprit to the PMDD symptoms. I use progesterone oil, Epsom salt baths weekly sometimes twice a week, eat paleo, no caffeine, no alcohol, 80oz water daily, lift weights 3x week, cardio 2x week, meditate, lunch nap, take a host of supplements and vitamins, but turn into a different person late in luteal phase. The copper symptoms show up then. I wonder if it is a flare up or a copper dumping because of low estrogen. The excessive Cooper being released causing bad symptoms. How are you doing now, Sage?

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