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Going round in circles

by Penny
(Western Australia)

Hello I really dont know where to start, but I have spent hours here pouring over all the information on this site! I am at a stage now where my drs want to sterilize me as it is my only option , but I have firmly put the brakes on and said hang on everyone just hold all your horses. I have been having increasingly heavy periods not longer ones but heavy, my lining is also becomed thickend (I have just had a biopsy and D&C, just waiting on results)I have such bad anxiety and panic attacks migraines its unbelievable plus all sorts of other lovely PMS things, I have also found out I am Celiac as well, just to add to the fun. I have had a major overhaul in my diet and I do feel so much better but not like I should, I really get very little help from Drs and my lifesaver has been my natropath. I dont understand why Drs dont know why my endo lining is thickend or why I suffer from anxiety, being cold, foggy head ect they just want to put me on pills take my reproductive organs out and say there you go all fixed!
I have had saliva testing done and it showed that I was Estrogen dominant low progesterone low testosterone and low cortisol but the Drs pay little attention to this It is so frustrating. The next step if my biops is neg for cancer, is to do an ablation, which I'm not to sure about either. Do you think that Natpro will be of some help? well I hope so as I have just bought 3 tubes lol. I feel I want to try anyway. My dads family carries the BRAC 1 gene( I am neg for it tho) so being estrogen dominant is a bit of a worry and even if they do take all my parts out how will that effect my estrogen dominace anyway! I am 44 so maybe in peri menopause as well, I must say my body must be pretty awesome to be still functioning with all that its gone through! Thanks for listening Penny

Comments for Going round in circles

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May 07, 2012
 Going around in circles
by: Anonymous

You definitely will benefit from natural progeterone! I am not a doctor. I have had the thickening of uterine lining and polyps. 100mg daily, cream only, did the trick. Then, I cut back on it and suffered more lining and more polyps. Now I am on 200mg cream per day but having good results. The pms stuff is not a problem for me as I am post menopausal, but I did suffer depression and anxiety before the progesterone. Hang in there and I would find a GYN that is willing to prescribe the natural progesterone.
May 07, 2012
 Going round in circles
by: Wray

Hi Penny I do love your humour! I so agree with you, I wonder how many of us are still functioning, next time round I'm coming back as a man! Unless I'm born with an immediate knowledge about progesterone, that was a life saver for me. As it has been for many women, men too interestingly. You are in Peri-menopause, with it's merry-go-round of symptoms. The thickened lining is very easy to explain, excess oestrogen. This is why the bleeding is heavier too, there's more lining to bleed out. We do have info on about this our Menstruation page. Briefly, oestrogen is a mitogen, stimulating cells to proliferate. It's also an excitatory, inflammatory hormone. It lowers temps, which is why you feel cold. Normal oral body temperature in adult men and women ranges between 33.2–38.2 °C (92–101 °F). Typical average temperatures are 37.0 °C (98.6 °F). In women it varies between the follicular and the luteal phase. During the follicular phase, i.e. from the first day of menstruation to ovulation, it ranges from 36.45 to 36.7 °C (97.6 to 98.1 °F). During the 12-14 day luteal phase, i.e. after ovulation to menstruation, temperature increases by 0.15 - 0.45 °C (0.2 - 0.9 °F) due to the increased metabolic rate caused by rapidly rising levels of progesterone. Temperature ranges between 36.7 - 37.3°C (98.1 - 99.2°F) during the luteal phase, but drops down to follicular levels within a few days of bleeding. It also causes brain fog, Anxiety and panic attacks, migraines too. Progesterone is very helpful for migraines, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. The low cortisol indicates your adrenals are very stressed, hardly surprising with all that's going on. Before trying any supplements for that, I feel if you can eliminate the anxiety this should help them enormously. Continued below.
May 07, 2012
 Going round in circles
by: Wray

Hi Penny I've found 400mg/day minimum progesterone is needed to stop heavy bleeding. And please take 2000mg/day of the amino acid N-acetyl cysteine, this suppresses the MMPs causing the heavy bleeding. This is explained on the menstruation page I gave above. You might like to see these comments here for encouragement. Please have a vitamin D test done, you live in Australia with it's daft policy of covering up in the sun with clothing or sunscreens. Nothing could be more dangerous to our health, we need the sun to make vitamin D. It's vital for so many things, not least the gut, see here, here, here and here. Protective against cancer too, as is progesterone, see our page on Cancer. Migraines too, see here, here and here. Please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray
May 08, 2012
 Round and round
by: Penny

Thanks for the feedback! I have ordered 3 tubes of Natpro so I cant wait to try it, Its good you had positive results with it concerning your thickened uterus. I just got my biopsy results today and all is good!yay so I am definately keeping all my parts now and will try balancing my hormones first. It will be interesting when I see my gyno in 3 weeks as I know what his thoughts will be but hey I might enlighten him!
Bye for now Penny
May 09, 2012
 Hormones
by: Judy

I would find a doctor who prescribes bio-identical hormones and consider that your progesterone, testosterone, and cortisol are all low. I know this is a progesterone site, and progesterone is helpful, but I think it takes looking at the total picture of hormones. Replacing what is low could help. Cortisol, progesterone, and testosterone and estrogen (though I understand you're estrogen dominant so dont want estrogen) all work together. You were smart not to jump into any surgery first. I find many times that people Ive talked to have been sorry they did that because that made them feel worse. I always like to try conventional therapies first. For example, I had heel pain from plantar fasciitis and an ensuing heel spur. Tried cortisone shots in the heel, they helped, pain never totally subsided...until my chiropractor and I decided to try cold laser therapy on my foot. I am out of pain now thanks to him and my podiatrist is considering getting a laser now! Best Wishes, Judy
May 13, 2012
 round and round
by: Penny

Thanks for all your comments, I have started on Vit D as I am a slip slop slap person! and I am waiting patiently for my cream to arrive also, I have lost tracking it so hopefully its in Australia! I have cut out all my soy as well, do you really think that it raises estrogen levels?
xxxP
May 13, 2012
 round and round
by: Wray

Hi Penny Well I'm pleased you've started the vitamin D but when you can have a test done. It could be your level is low and therefore you need more than the 5000iu's/day that's recommended. Some people have a fat malabsorption problem which means they can't absorb vitamin D, or have a liver or kidney problem. The former prevents pre-vitamin D converting to D3 and the latter prevents D3 converting to the hormone. I'm not suggesting you have any of these, but it's always best to have a test done roughly every 6 months. There's no question soy and many other plants raise oestrogen levels. Depending which camp you belong to this is either a good or bad thing! I belong to the latter. It matters not what form it comes in, oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to proliferate. These are a few papers here, here, here, here and here. Many plants contain phytoestrogens, see here, and here here. Continued below.
May 13, 2012
 round and round Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Penny As Judy says, this is a site about progesterone, but I'm open to all means of healing naturally. In case you feel tempted to increase your testosterone, please see these papers here, here, here, here here, here, here, here and here. Testosterone should never be given to a woman, there are even doubts about giving it to a man, that's if you read the studies. Besides testosterone ensures a middle age woman will get a middle age spread! See here and here. Take care Wray
May 13, 2012
 Round an round
by: Penny

Also I forgot to mention I have Antithrobin deficiency but I dont take bloodthinners but I do try to thin the blood through natural means, would it be safe to use the cream with this?
May 14, 2012
 round and round
by: Penny

Hello again just letting you know even tho i have low testosterone levels I havent thought about taking it to raise the levels, I think it will balance it self out when I have corrected the others.
May 14, 2012
 Round an round
by: Wray

Hi Penny Yes it's safe, in fact progesterone prevents platelets from aggregating, see here and here. Vitamin B6 does too, see here. This is possibly the most important B vitamin as every amino acid needs it for conversion, plus many other enzymatic reactions. It's therefore often low. Vitamin D is essential too, see here, here, here and here. Take care Wray
May 14, 2012
 round and round
by: Wray

Hi Penny I'm relieved to hear this! You might be interested in our page on Hormone Testing. Take care Wray
May 28, 2012
 Woohoo
by: Penny

I just thought I'd let you know my exciting news. I have very fibroistic boobs they are like handfuls of golfballs in a sock, I cant even have a mamogram, I have to have an ultra sound when I have checkups! Well i was just in the shower an thought well I better have a feel and I could hardly feel any lumps at all! they have at least halved! I am totally amazed, you could visually see them before, I have only been on the cream for about 7 days! so this is really encouraging!
May 28, 2012
 Woohoo
by: Wray

Hi Penny Well I don't know who is more delighted, you or me! Progesterone does help, although I caution it takes about a month, you've responded so quickly, such good news. You didn't mention them in your long list of problems, we do have a page on Breast Cysts, and one on Breast Tenderness. Excess oestrogen is the culprit, sometimes lack of iodine too. Talking of excess oestrogen, I do hope the progesterone stops the heavy bleeding. Tis too early to tell, and you need to use a high amount too, as I mentioned. I'm relieved you can't have mammograms, I've never had one and never will, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. I appreciate all feedback, even negative, so please continue to update us. Take care Wray
Mar 06, 2013
 Update
by: Penny

Hi Wray, I just thought I would give you an update and also ask a few more questions. I have been doing great ever so slowly my body is balancing out but not quite getting there, I still had some probs digestion wise and was finally sent to a specialist, I told him my symptoms and he straightbaway said thats your gall bladder to which my reply was no its not only people who eat crap get that! I must admit I knew nothing of my gall bladder, I think I just forgot I had one!So I went and researched, I have had all the gall bladder symptoms for at least 4 years probably longer but I was initially told I had trapped gas, and I had psyio for shoulder pain (I now know why that didnt work)and as I look back now I naturally gravitated away from foods that made me sick. I had a scan done showing stones and the Dr wanted to take it out but me being me I had to sus it all out first!
I had heard of the horror stories from this op.There was not much I could do diet wise as I eat very well I added digestive enzymes which helped greatly and I still do take, but the fatique, nausea, body pain was getting worse, also my skin was not a good colour it was a yellowy colour. I decided to have th gall bladder out as it wasn't functioning and I really felt it was affecting my liver and I was getting no better. I cant believe how good I felt after having it out, it was immediate all pain went fatiqe nausea I could eat without feeling sick Its was amazing! I havent looked back, my skin is so healthy looking as is my hair and nails my mojo is back. Now I want to ask your thoughts on a few things, I have been having probs again with these andrenaline rushes I feel like I am locked in turbo mode! These had disappeared but returned after the op, I still feel really good but TOO good if that makes sense I feel like I'm a rocket tied down with ropes and that dose not feel good,now my thoughts on this is that now my GB is gone my liver has gone yippee and is off working properly and that I had a build up of toxins and what ever else, that is now being release, I do take sups for my liver and do copper detoxes because of the copper in our water and this is what I am wondering is happening now my body is trying to cope with all the build up from my liver. I have upped my progesterone as well. Just wanted to know your thoughts on this, Thanks so much Penny
Mar 09, 2013
 Update
by: Wray

Hi Penny Wonderful you found someone who recognised the symptoms, and didn't just give drugs to treat them. So pleased you feel better, you would do. But a pity he didn't know about the gall bladder flush, this gets rid of stones, without removing the gall bladder. Food does play a role in their development, and they can still develop in the liver too, even after the op. There are two types, cholesterol stones which make up over 80%, caused by an excess of cholesterol in bile and insufficient bile salts (green, yellow or white in colour). And pigment stones, made principally of bilirubin and calcium salts, caused by an excess of bilirubin in bile (dark in colour). Problems in the gallbladder stem from insufficient bile production, toxins, slow flow of bile, an excess of cholesterol in the bile (which causes stones to form), infections, poor choice of foods, excess oestrogen, contraceptive Pills and HRT, certain blood disorders. It's evident yours formed due to high oestrogen. The high copper wouldn't have helped either, as this suppresses progesterone. Oestrogen also increases copper in the system, progesterone increases zinc, this is another option for counteracting the copper, but maybe you already take it. Research has shown that too little fat and protein and high levels of carbohydrates in the form of grains and sugar cause problems. Excess oestrogen, contraceptive Pills and HRT, may increase cholesterol levels in bile and slow gallbladder contractions resulting in gall stones. Taurine is essential for bile production. If insufficient taurine is eaten in the diet, the liver cannot make enough bile, this is not only essential for cholesterol excretion, but stones can accumulate. Taurine is not found in vegetables, only fish and meat. The body can convert it from the amino acid cysteine, but if stressed or insufficient cysteine is eaten, taurine will be low. Taurine is essential for the heart and eyes, cholesterol excretion, heart disease and blood sugar control. Please consider taking 1000-2000mg/day. It's one of our most calming neurotransmitters too. Adrenaline is caused by stress, excitement or a drop in blood glucose. Any op is stressful! The taurine should help, as it calms the heart down and helps blood glucose. Excess adrenaline prevents progesterone getting into the cells, so upping the amount was a good idea. It will also help calm the adrenals down, as they make the adrenaline. Glad you take liver supps, and for the copper too. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Jan 04, 2014
 my poor adrenals!
by: Penny

Hi Wray, I hope you had a great Christmas and new year! I have a few questions reguarding progesterone and cortisol levels, I have been under a lot of stress over the last few years and it seems it has caught up with me, my cortisol is now high along with all the nasty symptoms that come along with that, I am being tested for cushings! All my kidney/liver/blood tests are all good but cortisol is high ACTH is normal range, I feel like I have a caffine drip in! Now I am much worse in the first 2 weeks of my cycle and much better in the last 2, I only use natpro in the luteal phase, Can progesterone cause cortisol to rise or lower ( as its needed for its production)? I have been trying to find papers on this but nothing clear cut, I'm thinking that it doesn't raise cortisol because you would think I would be worse when on natpro in the luteal phase. I'm doing saliva testing this week to see where things are at. And I'm trying to support my endoctrine system but it feels like its out of my control any insight would be great! Thanks Penny
Jan 06, 2014
 My poor adrenals
by: Joy

Hi Penny

I see that Wray has covered a wide range of topics with you. Stress is a terrible thing and it causes both progesterone and vitamin D levels to drop drastically. When stressed it is always a good idea to increase both. How much progesterone and vitamin are you actually taking/using currently?

Progesterone actually suppresses excess cortisol, not only that but it's a potent anxiolytic so lessens the stress response. This gives the adrenals a break from having to produce the stress hormones.

You might like to read Wray's page on the definition of stress - see here. There is evidence that women with Cushing's also have PCOS, have you been tested for this?

There is something that I do not understand, you say that you are only using Natpro in the luteal phase, why? As I understand you are in peri-manopause when progesterone really should be used every day. All sorts of changes take place and progesterone is needed to balance things. I really do recommend that you start to use it every day.

Hope this helps.

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