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Excessive Sleepiness

by Jill
(Minnesota)

I know that we are not supposed to be able to have too much progesterone and that it's not supposed to build up in the system. But I'm concerned about this extreme level of sleepiness I have been experiencing.
A little background, I started on Natpro early last December. I was taking 1 1/2 tsps and am now taking 1 1/4 tsps or 6.25 ml two times a day morning and evening.
But I've found myself over time just getting more and more tired.I get plenty of sleep at night, but still find myself fighting to stay awake at the most inconvenient times! I can't even completely enjoy my days off work. I sleep a full night, come upstairs and usually fall back asleep for another 3 or 4 hours. Even if I manage to stay awake for awhile, it's only a matter of time until I do fall asleep for several hours.
I have read elsewhere that it can be a common sign of too much progesterone, but I also know here that we aren't supposed to be able to have too much.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? It's hard being so tired all the time!!Thanks.

Comments for Excessive Sleepiness

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Aug 06, 2014
 Me too...
by: Brenda

I experienced the same thing. I was sleeping about 15 hours a day and was exhausted the few I was awake. I was not sick in any other way, that we know of... It lasted about month and then I returned to my NOT sleeping again. I have been taking about 2 tsp. every night for about 6 months. My best time with it was when I first started...I began sleeping almost like a normal person.

I would like to know what happened to me, too.
Aug 07, 2014
 Yes, it's the progesterone
by: Anonymous

Hi Jill,

I've had a similar experience. After several months of using higher doses I started getting super sleepy. I could barely stay up. I simply HAD to stop using it because I couldn't work anymore.

If you search the forums you'll find you're not the only one with this problem.

I do believe using a higher dose is good to overcome estrogen dominance. I had symptoms of estrogen dominance and used up between 150 and 300mg daily in the last two weeks of my cycle. I did this for about 4 months without getting tired.

Then my estrogen dominance symptoms were gone. That's when I started to get really tired. Like unbelievably tired.

I know many people on this forum disagree, but from my experience you CAN get a progesterone overdose and it DOES build up in your tissue.

For now, I 've had to stop completely with progesterone. I do use bio-identical estriol (the "friendly" estrogen), which makes me feel very good. Great sleep and mood.

I've tried using progesterone again the last 4 months but I get tired and depressed almost immediately.

I'm hoping that over time my body will use up all the excess progesterone and that I will be able to start using it again because I know its a necessary 'counter-weight' to estrogen.

My favorite book in this topic is Natural Hormone Balance by Dr. Uzi Reiss. I highly recommend you check it out.

Here's a url that really hit home for me about progesterone overdosing. You can just copy paste it in your browser:
http://www.greenwillowtree.com/Page.bok?file=wildyam.html

Hope this helps,

L.
Aug 07, 2014
 Too Much Progesterone
by: Liz UK

Hello

As far as I am aware, Wray is still not answering forum questions.

She took a break some months ago and we are still waiting to hear if or when she will be returning to these forums.

I can understand why having hundreds of hormonal women (Like me) demanding answers! It would be exhausting and stressful and certainly a full time job in itself.

I have found since Wray was not here, that I can search for my answers by using the search box and using specific key words and reading other users questions and Wrays answers.
Perhaps you can try this?

I can give you my opinion, for what it's worth but of course, I do not know what Wray does but here is my own experience.

I am using 400mg of natural progesterone per day, every day.

Sometimes I experience the feeling of having not slept even when I have. I don't feel "sleepy" I just feel like I have not slept properly the night before and it's a horrible feeling.

That said, I get this only around the time of my period (Which are all over the place now)
It is a common PMS symptom for some although not for me.

It is due to the sleep patterns being disturbed during the hormone changes leading up to your period.
You may be asleep but you are unable to achieve deep or REM sleep.
This is a direct result of Oestrogen however, not progesterone.

That said and as you quite rightly wrote, the only side effect of taking too much progesterone is feeling sleepy.

So the question is, have all of your Oestrogen dominance symptoms gone or improved enough that you feel you could use less Natpro?

If you feel you are better and previous Oestrogen symptoms have indeed improved or gone then you may well be able to slowly reduce the amount of Natpro you are using if the sleepiness is becoming a major issue.

But do not stop using completely or make a large reduction!
I did that recently and had the worst time of my life for 3+ weeks!
It left me quite shaken up I can tell you. I literally felt I was losing my mind with anxiety, insomnia, rage and depression.

The hard part with Progesterone is finding the dose that works for you and it may take some time to find that benchmark amount.

We are all different and our bodies and associated hormones are changing all the time as we approach menopause.

You may reduce too much progesterone and have all the Oestrogen dominance symptoms return, so it is tricky.

Perhaps try using the cream at night only and not during the day (?)

I know Wray says Progesterone levels drop after 13 hours of application, but I use 400mg of progesterone all at night and have never had any issues that I am consciously aware of.
As I say, we are all different.

You don't say whether you use the cream every single day of the month.
It is advised to do this if you are in peri so not allow Oestrogen to gain the upper hand again.

But if you are taking a break from Natpro for a week in each month, how does the sleepiness feel around that time?

Interestingly, one of the most common symptoms of peri and menopause is insomnia.
I get that occasionally but nothing like I was getting it before I used Progesterone.
I would be grateful to feel sleepy over feeling "wired and tired"

Hope this helps!

Liz
Aug 08, 2014
 To Jill
by: Liz UK

Jill,

I think it is very dangerous to state "Yes, it is the progesterone" when you are not the ladies practitioner or even spokes person for Natpro much less progesterone.

You have no idea how old the original poster is much less how often she uses the cream or for how long.

Even Wray can only 'advise' and her advise is very much against ANY type of Oestrogen which she backs up with countless links to studies.

I have seen you post at least two links to some Oestrogen cream in these forums and I find it poor taste considering this forums is about 'Progesterone therapy' and not oestrogen which as I said above, Wray is very much against the use of for any woman at any age.
We have enough oestrogen in our food and environment to require additional supplementation of it.

Plus, I would imagine the ONLY time a woman would need any oestrogen would be post menopause, after periods have stopped and when her body slows down in the production Oestrogen.

If the lady who posted this question is in her late 30s or mid 40s and still having cycles and the hormonal roller coaster that comes with peri, then your advice could make her feel 100 times worse.

The whole basis and belief of Wray's studies and research is that western women are lacking progesterone NOT Oestrogen and even when we hit Menopause, there are enough Oestrogen mimickers in our foods and environment to ensure we never need to add more.

One thing I have learned is even without using bio identical hormones, peri and menopause causes symptoms that wax and wane, some showing as brand new to us some old symptoms that have returned.

Its is a common mistake to jump to conclusions that we are feeling a certain way because of a vitamin pill we recently started taking or a cream we recently started applying when actually we may probably be having that same symptom regardless of the pills and potions we have recently used.

Your Oestrogen cream MAY well be working for you but you and the lady who wrote this question are two very different people and may well be years apart. So what works for one person may cause havoc in another.

I think its disrespectful for you to post links to other products in these forums and further more, if you are convinced that Progesterone is not working for you and that Oestrogen is, I wonder why you are still reading these forums and leaving feedback?

Please be careful what you suggest other people should use just because it worked for you.

No two people are the same. It's very much an individual journey and one only we ourselves can assess and decide what is right or wrong for us.

Aug 09, 2014
 No Room for an Open Dialogue
by: Anonymous

Hello Liz UK,

I was merely trying to help Jill (I'm not Jill btw, Jill was the one asking the question) find an answer to her question.

Since I had a similar experience I just wanted to tell her my story.

I regret your defensive attitude.

Maybe I overdid it with the title of my post (yes, it's the progesterone) and I'm sorry for that.

The links I posted were merely to a book and an informative webpage that helped me figure out why I was responding so strangely to higher doses of progesterone.

I certainly am in no way affiliated with these links or am making any money from them.

It's not the first time that I read very aggressive posts from people. You can rest assured I will no longer post any advice, even though I believe it may help people find a more balanced answer. One that doesn't believe progesterone is the answer to ALL hormonal problems.

I know, from reading many of the posts on this site that I'm not the only one with that opinion.

I'm very gratefull for all the information Wray has provided on this site but sadly there is sometimes too much hostility on these forums for me to participate any longer.

All the best,

L.
Aug 10, 2014
 Thank you
by: Jill

Thanks to all who have replied. I appreciate every post here! I think it's helps to hear others are or have experienced the same thing. To clarify, I am 45 years old and well into Peri. I have not had a cycle since Jan, when I bled horribly for the entire month with clotting and flooding. So no cycle for over 6 month now. I do still get some signs that make it feel like I will get a cycle, but I don't.
Liz I do agree that age and such can be a determining factor. I should have mentioned more info in my original post. Also size. I am overweight, working on losing, so I know that can be a factor as well. Wray has been so gracious for many years to give women answers and hope e v England when they don't use Natpro. That says much about the kind of person she is.
Anon or L, I appreciate hearing another side and a different opinion. When it comes down to it, I am responsible for my health and my choices and I like to hear different sides and opinions. I will check into the info you recommended. Everyone is different and what works for one may be detrimental to another. Since so many other products other then Naylor are mentioned on this site, I don't think theres much harm in mentioning another.
I will search forums as well for others experiencing this issue. I really do feel that it is caused by the progesterone though. I know it can have a sensitive effect. Maybe is time to start lowering dose and see how it goes. I think it can also explain some of the mild depression I have felt. I have never been prone to depression. Anxiety yes, depression no.
Progesterone has helped me in so many ways, and for that I am thankful, but now it really does feel I may have too much. I guess I just need to experiment and find what works for me.
Aug 10, 2014
 part 2
by: Jill

Right now I am using progesterone every day with no break. I may try cutting down dosage or only using once a day to see what happens. All I can do is try.
I don't want to lose ground but I can't handle how tired I am either. I don't think it's normal to almost fall asleep on the toilet!
I have also read elsewhere that to much progesterone can affect a person's thyroid function. Will look into some more.
So much of the advice here makes sense to me, but there's others who have different opinions. But one thing I always remember is that everyone is different and we tolerate things to different degrees. When I was bleeding so bad in Jan, I tried the recommended way to fix it. It didn't work for me and made me feel bad. A less conventional method worked for me involving Apple cider vinegar, Blackwater molasses and cod liver oil! Lol
Think I will go search the forum now.
Aug 11, 2014
 oops Sorry
by: Jill

Just want to apologize for all my typos and the auto corrects that were incorrect! I should have gone through them before I posted!
Aug 12, 2014
 my decision for now
by: Jill

I have decided for now to try what Liz suggests- just dosing at night to see how it goes. I will take my cream with me though in case I feel the need to use it during the day. If it doesn't work, I may try breaking it up into 3 doses per day.
I have also ordered the book recommended by anon or L. It has very good reviews and sounds like it's written in a way anyone can understand. I look foward to reading it.
I think high doses can be very beneficial. I know its benefited me. It wasn't fun working through the dominance issues but it was worth it. But that doesn't necessarily mean IMO, that high doses are necessary forever.
I know Dr Dalton used very high doses in excess of 2000 mgs, but I don't think that was done every day for months on end. I don't pretend to be an expert on this of course, but I also am not convinced that high doses are ok for years. I've been on a high dose for 9 months and think I may be taking too much now with this sleepiness. Also am experiencing some dizziness now and again. I know the stock answer to that is that it's estrogen dominance again. Maybe it is. But I definitely do not want to increase my dose anymore. For one thing...I can't afford it!!!!
So I am going to try Liz's suggestion and read that book and see what else I can learn. I appreciate he info here so much and appreciate how Wray has gone above and beyond to help others. I think it would drive me batty to put up with it as she has!lol
Aug 12, 2014
 one more thing
by: Jill

One more thing that I forgot to mention. I did search the forum about this issue and discovered that Wray does mention that sleepiness can be a sign of overdose.

In a thread titled "Can I use too much progesterone cream", Wray does admit that "Joking apart, sleepiness is another symptom" (of overdose, song with the joking comment of euphoria). Her comment is dated Juy 1, 2008.

So yes, my sleepiness can be from too much.
Oct 12, 2014
 update
by: Jill

Thought I would tell you where I am at now. I did do one dose a day for some time and it seemed to help some. I wasn't as sleepy as I had been, but not as energetic as I would have liked. As time went by, I slowly decreased my dose and completely came off of progesterone.

I also started eating better. More veggies and such.I am feeling really good so far! I'm very grateful for that. I actually get up earlier on the weekends and have energy to accomplish a lot. If I do nap, it's unusually a short one instead of 2 or 3 hours. Lol

The day may come when I will need to take progesterone again, but until then, I'm done with it for now. It helped me for several months, but now I'm good without it.

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