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Endometrial cyst, treatment plan outline - need your advice, please

by Cystic

Dear Wray, I'm going to use NatPro for the first time, and I'd really like to know your opinion on whether my treatment plan is ok.

A short background: I am still menstruating (age 36), and I have a 6cm cyst which is presumably an endometrial one, as much as ultrasound technicians can tell. Nothing has helped to get rid of it so far (tried only natural things, no drugs ever), and I've had it for almost 7 years now. It causes me almost no pain except for near ovulation day, and then the pain is light. I want to get rid of it as it has a potential to rupture any time, they say. I'll do everything to avoid surgery, which doctors say is the only "treatment" in my case. I do have estrogen dominance symptoms (not severe or significant except for the cyst), but I'll leave them out now.

What I'm planning to do is to use maybe 200mg of NatPro daily for at least a month or 2 (or maybe 3?) non-stop, ignoring my period. I want to suppress estrogen as much as possible initially.

After having used it for maybe 2 months non-stop, I'm thinking to align it to my cycle and start applying it right after ovulation till next period, and reducing it slowly to 100mg. I hope not to have to use more than 100mg per day after an initial higher dose for a couple of months.

I'm thinking to give NatPro at least 3 months before having a follow-up ultrasound performed to see if the cyst is shrinking.

Having read your recommendations to others, I ordered N-Acetyl Cysteine, Glutamine, Glycine, and Taurine, all in powdered form so I can take high doses. I do have a bunch of other useful supplements to take along the way (like - Magnesium, Selenium, Zinc, MSM, B-complex, R-Lipoic Acid, etc.).

I've been taking 5,000IU of vitamin D3 for several months now, but have increased it to 10,000IU since a few days in order to have enough of it in my body for progesterone to work efficiently. I had very low levels of D3 when 1st tested.

Am I on the right track? Do you have any suggestions? I'd really appreciate your opinion and advice.

Thanks a lot in advance :)

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May 02, 2013
 Endometrial cyst, treatment plan outline - need your advice, please
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Well I can't really add anything more! Thank you so much for reading through the site, it makes it so worth while for me. I would suggest using the progesterone for 2-3 months as you say, through any bleeding too. Once stable you can consider following your cycle. If you have slight pain at ovulation, it would appear it's an Ovarian Cyst. And you're so right, no point in having the scan done in less than three months. I'm relieved you've increased the vitamin D to 10,000iu per day, 5000iu is a good dose, but really only for maintenance. It doesn't increase levels quickly if at all, particularly if it's up against any inflammation. One women has just written in saying she's had migraines for 10 years, and been taking 5000iu per day for 5 years, but her level hadn't changed from very low, this doesn't surprise me. I suggest having another test after about 3 months to see how your level is doing. Although you don't have PCOS, it appears vitamin D can possibly correct the cystic condition. There are papers on this page you could look through. I'm delighted you're going to take all those other supps, powder form is best it's generally cheaper and larger doses can be taken. They are all powerful antioxidants, and the first three as you've obviously found out, are the precursors to glutathione, our most important antioxidant, apart from vitamin D. Selenium and zinc are excellent, they are needed by the thyroid to form T3 and T4. Selenium is needed for glutathione production. And if oestrogen is high, zinc will be low. You might like to look at a complex we make up, it has all the above in it except the MSM, it might be a cheaper option, see here. Do let me know how you get on, and don't forget Oestrogen Dominance, it can come out of the blue. Take care Wray
May 02, 2013
 Thank you!
by: Cystic

Dear Wray,

Thank you so much for your comments! I had seen the Energy Boost before ordering my amino acids, but since I already had most of the other supplements listed in the ingredients, I decided to order the most important missing ones. I'll surely consider getting your Energy Boost formula later, when I run out of my supply.

By the way, there are amino acids which you recommend in higher doses than you've included in your formula, like N-Acetyl Cysteine, for example. You advise to take up to 5000mg daily, while the Energy Boost contains only 500mg. Is it to keep us on the safe side, and anyone wanting more can take it separately?

You wrote: "Once stable you can consider following your cycle."

Well, actually, I'm stable now :) My cycles have been regular except for maybe 4-5 times in 23 years.

I'm glad to have got an approval from you to go ahead with uninterrupted application of cream for 2-3 months :) I'll do so, then will continue from ovulation on. By the way, just to bust a myth, my luteal phase has never been less than 16 days, sometimes 17, and this has been verified more than once with ultrasound exams. It could be a luteal phase disorder, however :)

Anyway, let's see what the cream is going to do for me.

Thanks a lot one more time, your input and comments are invaluable for me!

Best wishes!
May 02, 2013
 Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Oh I should have known you would have seen the Energy Boost, as you appear to have looked through the entire site! Yes I do recommend higher amounts of some aminos, usually because it relates to a particular problem. The EB is primarily intended to help insulin resistance. Whereas if high levels of inflammation are involved higher levels of the anti-inflammatory aminos are needed. So if one should take the EB, it would be advisable to add more of the relevant aminos. We do have a complex for PCOS too, that does have higher levels all based on the studies done, although more would not hurt. Plus an anti-inflammatory complex which also has higher levels. I should have made myself clearer about the stable bit, progesterone can upset the cycle, making it earlier or later than normal, it does settle in time. Also by stable, I meant all symptoms had gone, it can take longer than 2-3 months. It so much depends on how bad they are, how long they've been experienced, many other factors. Continued below
May 02, 2013
 Thank you! Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Cystic In fact I made a list of the few things which cause progesterone levels to drop......
lack of or drop in vitamin D.... are you taking it, or missed a dose, or spent lots of time indoors?
dark days, especially winter, probably because vitamin D drops in winter due to lack of sun
high oestrogen.... aromatase, which converts testosterone into oestrogen, is working over time, or SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) is low, this binds oestrogen making it inactive
high testosterone.... SHBG is low, this binds testosterone making it inactive. Sugars drop SHBG, they also drop progesterone levels
high LH.... the pituitary is working over time trying to make an egg develop, secrete testosterone and oestrogen, and then ovulate
high FSH....the pituitary is working over time trying to make an egg develop, secrete testosterone and oestrogen, and then ovulate
high stress...... this converts most of the available progesterone into cortisol
high adrenaline (comes from Stress or excitement, and a drop in blood glucose)..... this stops progesterone entering the cells
sugars of any kind.... they drop progesterone, plus dropping blood glucose, plus dropping SHBG
large meals..... because of the increased metabolic clearance of progesterone
alcohol.... this reduces progesterone levels and increases the androgens, ie testosterone
insulin.... increase caused by eating large meals, sugars, or meals containing sugar or starchy carbs
high level of phytoestrogens in the diet.... ie grains and legumes, soy milk, tofu etc these all act as oestrogen
oestrogenic herbs.... often given to women to help with symptoms

Very interesting about your luteal phase! Most unusual for the corpus luteum to continue secreting progesterone for so long, I live and learn! Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
May 18, 2013
 God bless you :)
by: Cystic

Dear Wray,

Thank you very much for your knowledge, time, and willingness to help!

What a list! So many things interfere with our progesterone levels, and we wonder what's wrong...

I received my NatPro creams a couple of days ago, now planning to have my vitamin D tested next week, although less than 3 months have passed since my last test when my level was about 42ng/ml (raised from 0 in about 6 months with 5000 IU). I want my D3 level at least at 70 before starting the cream, though I'm impatient, in order not to waste any mg of it :) I've been taking 10000IU since about a month, but I might take a higher dosage if it's still far from 70.

I forgot to mention that I've been using another natural progesterone cream (Dr.Lam) for about 5 months, 12 days/month, 40mg/day. When I got flooded with estrogen dominance symptoms (lasted for about 2 cycles), I had to look up if that was normal, and that's when I found your website :) Interestingly, all the symptoms were physical; the cream had a very calming effect on my mood, while previously I was terrible for about 2 weeks almost every month. I did not increase the dose then, as I did not have enough of the cream to keep me through till I'd get NatPro.

Sorry for this long story :) I'm going to keep you updated on my experience with NatPro, so I thought the above info might be of importance.

May I ask you a question, please? I'm trying to figure out how much of the amino acids I really need to take, as I think I don't have inflammation. My CRP has always been low, last one being 0.25mg/L, 6 months ago (while I have my supposedly endometrial cyst for 6+ years). Should I take really high doses of aminos in case of no detected inflammation?

I'm thinking of these doses:
- Taurine 2000 mg
- N-Acetyl Cysteine 2000 mg
- L-Glycine 3000 mg
- L-Glutamine either 2500 or 5000 mg

Would love to know what you think of this.

Oh, just remembered one more thing I had intended to ask. Does it matter when in my cycle I start the cream if I'm going to use it for 3 months non-stop?

Thank you in advance from the bottom of my heart :)

Best wishes!
May 19, 2013
 skin not oily anymore
by: Cystic

Dear Wray,

Sorry for bombarding you with messages! Just wanted to update that a few minutes after submitting my previous msg, I found my skin where I had applied Natpro to not be oily anymore. Seems it takes some time, but 30-40 minutes is great compared to hours of Dr.Lam's cream.

Sending more love your way :)
May 24, 2013
 God bless you :)
by: Wray

Hi Cystic It's so interesting your observation that the progesterone did have a calming affect, but your physical symptoms actually got worse. It's difficult to get this across to people, as it is contrary to what one would expect, which is all symptoms should get better. I'm alarmed your vitamin D was so low! Very relieved you're now taking a good dose. That level probably accounts for all your symptoms, plus of course any progesterone you were making was not very effective, if at all. If your CRP is so low, I don't think you need quite such a high dose of the aminos, although it won't do any harm of course. Maybe one month on the doses you suggest, then reduce to maybe half the amount until you've finished them. I must tell you I take a complex we make with all those in, plus extra of all the above except for the glycine. I put the glutamine and cysteine in my water bottle which I drink all day. The taurine is so calming, also so important for the heart and eyes, in fact any organ where oxidation is high like the brain and liver too. Plus it calms the heart if drinking coffee, which I do! I don't mind how many questions I get. I'm really puzzled about the oily affect, as I find it goes into my skin within minutes leaving no residue. Maybe you are applying it all in one small place? I tend to wipe large areas of skin with any application. The skin comprises 95% keratinocytes which all have many progesterone receptors, see here. Even the hair follicles absorb it well, see here. Please do keep in touch, the early days on progesterone can be rough, as you found! Bless you too! Take care Wray
May 25, 2013
 Thank you!
by: Cystic

Dear Wray,

Thank you so much for your reply :) I'll follow your recommendations for the aminos. What a brilliant idea to put them in your bottled water! I have no experience with powdered supplements, so this hint is great.

I had my vitamin D tested a few days ago - 66ng/mL! At last I'm close to 70 and can start the NatPro treatment soon (planning to start right after ovulation and give it no break for 3 months).

As for the oily feeling, it puzzles me, too, as I had applied the cream on a relatively large area. Maybe Joy could forward my email to you, where I went into more detail? I don't mind the oily feeling, it's the other issue mentioned in the email that bothers me more, but for the sake of getting the benefits of progesterone I'll have to get used to it. Maybe not all tubes are the same?

I will, indeed, keep in touch and keep you updated on my NatPro journey. Thank you for your readiness to advise and help!

Best of best :)
Cystic
May 30, 2013
 Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi Cystic I find the combo of the glutamine and cysteine delicious, but then it's not to everyone's taste! Cysteine is a sulphur amino so does take some getting used to, it's very sour. Joy does the same too. So pleased your vitamin D is getting to a better level, thanks so much for listening to me and having the test done, I just wish every one would. You said you had applied 1/4tsp to your inner arm from wrist to elbow, if I recall correctly. I would use that amount over my entire arm. I squeeze out a bit, rub my hands lightly together, then 'wipe' the cream all over which ever part I've chosen, then go back and rub it in. It doesn't require much rubbing in, as most has absorbed. We're baffled by the issue you mention, as we've all used every batch that's been produced and not found a smell, apart from the raw material smell. But do let us know how you get on. Take care Wray
Jun 25, 2013
 Update
by: Cystic

Hi :) Hope you're doing well, both you and Joy.

I've been using the cream since June 5, 2013. It appears I'm using a little more than 200mg progesterone daily, as 1 tube lasts me 15 applications instead of 20. I don't mind using a little more, of course. By the way, I do cut the tube open and use up all that's left inside (more than half a teaspoon!).

N-AC was a bit hard to get used to, I mix it with Glycine to make it more bearable :) Sometimes, I mix Taurine in with the other 2 as well. I hope they're ok to be taken together. I take Glutamine on its own usually, but at times I do take all the 4 aminos together, in a glass of water.

So far, I've noticed no positive or negative changes. Even my period (started June 22nd) was no different than before NatPro. I guess, since Dr. Lam's cream saw me through the initial "estrogenic surge", I was safe from another episode, though using a higher dose of progesterone.

Now there's one thing I find strange... I gained 2kg of weight in only 21 days of treatment. I'm normal weight even with the additional 2 kilograms, so it doesn't really bother me, but I do hope this trend doesn't continue.

For the record, I'd like to let you know what my latest ultrasound showed, mentioning only things of interest. I had it done a week before starting the NatPro treatment (always have ultrasound exams performed right before any new treatment).

1. Left ovarian endometrial(?) cyst of 5.05x6.48cm (has been about this size for years, sometimes smaller, other times larger).

2. An interstitial fibroid of 0.81x0.67cm (discovered in March 2013 for the 1st time, after having used Dr.Lam's cream for 3 cycles. Size was 0.86x0.77cm then, so after 2 more cycles on the same cream, it was a tiny bit smaller).

3. Breast cysts - 2 in right, sizes 10mm and 4.7mm, and 1 in left - 13mm (40mg/day of Dr. Lam's progesterone has definitely been helpful here, as I had had more cysts in both glands for several years. There were 4 in each, right before Dr.Lam's cream).

Hope I did not miss anything. I'll post another update after my next period.

Oh, was forgetting... I've been taking 10000 IU of vitamin D for about 2 months now. Thinking to reduce back to 5000 IU for fear of overdoing it. I'd wish to have it tested now to know better, but I don't think I'll afford another test before September. What would you advise?

Thanks a lot!

Cystic
Jun 26, 2013
 Update
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Thanks for the update. You've been using the 200mg plus for about 3 weeks now, early days to see any marked change. You've had the cysts for years, and now the fibroid, which is undoubtedly from the low vitamin D level you had. It will take time to reverse all this. I don't think you should reduce the dose, if concerned please see this paper see here. It concludes with "Universal intake of up to 40,000 IU vitamin D per day is unlikely to result in vitamin D toxicity". About the fibroid, there's strong evidence a lack is quite possibly a cause, taking it certainly makes them shrink, see here, here, here, here, here and here. Did you have an iodine test done? As it could be this is what you need, a lack does cause breast cysts, see here, here, here, here, here and here. If you haven't tried it, please consider it. The NAC does take getting used to! Take care Wray
Jun 27, 2013
 thanks!
by: Cystic

Dear Wray, thank you very much for your quick response!

I did not really expect any change cyst-wise in 3 weeks, that's why I'm planning to have a follow-up ultrasound no sooner than after 3 months of treatment :)

I meant to say I had no estrogenic side-effects, which is great, nor did I feel any difference in any other aspect (emotionally or physically). I was just stating some facts for the sake of an update :)

Strange thing is, the fibroid was discovered after I had been supplementing with vitamin D for a few months, and my level was already up to around 40 mg/dl. No fibroid previously, with super low vitamin D. I think it was the initial estro side-effect of progesterone cream that maybe spiked my estrogen levels and triggered the growth of a fibroid.

I'll keep taking 10000 IU of D, thanks :)

Interesting you should bring up iodine. A few years ago, I did try a treatment plan with 50mg Lugol's daily for about 6 months. Didn't help. I had to stop it because my thyroid antibodies
went higher with Lugol's, although they still remained within the range. I suppose the treatment was doomed to fail because my vitamin D was so low back then.

I do think my body lacks iodine, and I have my doubts regarding my thyroid function (I think it's hypo), but no doctor would listen to me with a TSH of 2, and "normal" FT4 and FT3 levels (both are a little lower than mid range, which I've read is actually low).

I did the iodine patch test last week; unexpectedly for me, it stayed there for almost 24 hours. It was a 5% solution, though. I've read the test needs to be done with a 3% one. Maybe I should order a 3% solution at a compounding pharmacy, if that really makes a difference. I wish I could have the iodine loading test, but it's not an option where I live.

I have thought about giving a try to desiccated thyroid, but it's not available in my country, and I don't know if I could mess my thyroid up with an unsupervised trial.

So here I am, experimenting with progesterone fearlessly, but doubtful about taking the risk for my thyroid :)

Best wishes!

Cystic
Jun 28, 2013
 thanks!
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Well I'm relieved you weren't expecting miracles from the progesterone! And pleased you had no side effects from the oestrogen, that's a relief for me, as it's my worst aspect of progesterone therapy. Interesting your thoughts on the fibroid, it could well have been caused by that. I tried Lugol's too with no difference, my first patch test lasted days, but recently I've found only hours, and yet I can't get it up. I have heard that nascent iodine is better, see here. I did think of having miso soup every day, as it has seaweed in it, but keep forgetting! You might be interested in this protocol someone wrote in about, see here. Vitamin D is of course essential for the thyroid so quite possibly the reason for the failure. Look forward to your next instalment! Take care Wray
Jul 31, 2013
 PMS is back to some extent
by: Cystic

Hi :) I wanted to write an update since my last period, but got busy.

Before I forget, I'd like to mention that the iodine protocol you linked to in your above post is what I had been following (though not to the letter).

To progesterone updates now... My 2nd period on NatPro was a better one, compared to periods in the past few years. But I started having PMS symptoms since day 11 (it's day 16 today). To remind, my ovulation usually takes place (when it does) on day 10, sometimes on day 11. I've been using NatPro since almost 2 months now, and I think I have not ovulated since (no mucus).

It's strange that I had no estrogenic symptoms throughout my last cycle, but now my breasts ache, and my concentration is low, and I'm more easily irritated. Hadn't had this stuff since months.

Do you think my body got used to the 200mg dose and I need to increase it? Actually, I'm sure I'm using a little over 200mg, as 1 tube lasts me about 8 days, with the tube walls wept clean from inside :). So could have I got used to 200+ mg of progesterone? Does it not work efficiently anymore?

I have another month to go before a follow-up ultrasound to see what's going on in my ovaries and breasts. I think my next update will be after the checkup, unless this PMS gets worse.

Just remembered another question I wanted to ask. I do my best to apply the cream every 12 hours, but I missed the timing today. I had gone almost 16 hours since the previous application before I noticed it. I don't think it's a big deal, but would a "small window" allow more estrogen to sneak in, I wonder?

Best wishes to you and Joy; hope you're doing well :)

Take care,
Cystic
Aug 01, 2013
 PMS is back to some extent
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Thanks for the update. Interesting you began getting PMS symptoms from ovulation. This often occurs. It's always been believed, and still is by everyone including the medical profession, that progesterone is only produced by the corpus luteum after ovulation. But as far back as 1930 it was thought there must be another source. This was confirmed in the 1960's, and re-confirmed in the 1980's, that there is an exponential rise of progesterone about 50 hours prior to ovulation. This surge comes from the brain, see here, here, here and here. Oestrogen also rises exponentially about 50 hours prior to ovulation. Unless there is the progesterone surge too, there is nothing to counter the oestrogen effect. This explains why many women get migraines, seizures, palpitations, panic attacks and asthma attacks around ovulation. The same reasoning can be applied to the symptoms that occur during progesterone withdrawal prior to bleeding. It seems you didn't get that surge of progesterone, leaving you oestrogen dominant. So I don't believe your body has become used to the progesterone, just that that oestrogen surge was too great for the amount you're using. It is trial and error sensing when we need more or less. So consider increasing it to cover any symptoms. Then you can drop back slowly to the 200mg/day. Glad you're trying that iodine protocol, these are more papers I've found since that comment, see here, here, here here and here. Continued below
Aug 01, 2013
 PMS is back to some extent Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Cystic This is a good supplement as it includes tyrosine too, see here. It could be you're not taking enough, as some of the doses you'll notice are very high if a problem is severe. Oestrogen could begin rising if the gap is too long. Why not apply the progesterone every 3 hours? I do, often more frequently, particularly when stressed! And we're both well bless you. Joy has taken over a huge chunk of work from the two us, as she now answers all the live chat messages coming in. Sometimes she has three or more on the go at once! Plus some of the admin queries too. She Skypes me occasionally saying she's going round the bend! Take care Wray
Aug 01, 2013
 Thank you!
by: Cystic

Hi Wray, thank you very much for your quick reply!

In fact, Joy was the one to chat with me when I first came here. Thank you, dear Joy :)

Wray, the 2nd and 3rd links regarding iodine lack the information you intended to pass on. No problem for me at the moment, just thought to inform you.

I quit using iodine some time ago, as my antibodies levels increased with it, though still within the range. I think I'll give my thyroid another treatment chance soon, with tyrosine this time.

Interesting about progesterone having its role in LH surge. I guess that could explain why I had functional cysts appearing so often.

"Why not apply the progesterone every 3 hours?"

Well, first of all, I'd get confused with the dosing. By the way, sometimes when I accidentally squeeze out more cream than needed, I go ahead and apply all of it (a little more progesterone won't hurt, I think). Occasionally, though, I put the excessive amount into a clean container, close it tight, and use it later. What I mean to say is I'm not good at eyeballing :)

Secondly, I may easily get busy with work and forget to apply it that often. It's easier when it's morning and evening.

And thirdly, I happen to be out in places where it would be impossible for me to apply the cream, unless I use it as hand cream.

I may try to apply it 3-4 times a day and see if that's doable. I use a measuring spoon to get my 100mg at a time, so If I squeeze 1 portion (100mg) and leave some amount in the spoon "in the open," will not the air alter any properties of the cream?

Wishing you only the best,
Cystic
Aug 02, 2013
 Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Sorry about those links, Joy is always finding broken ones for me. So irritating, most pdf's have the link at the bottom of the page. But in some instances it's a broken link, unbeknownst to me. I don't always have the time to save the URL when I save the paper, so find it on the pdf. Anyway I've found two news URLs for you, see here and here. Thanks for letting me know, I've corrected the ones I'd saved. I'm ignorant, but why would increased levels of antibodies be a bad thing. After all they are a vital part of the immune system. Could it be the iodine is activating them because you have an infection, albeit low grade and not detectable? Iodine is needed to shrink or prevent cysts forming, could the antibodies be reacting to the cyst? If your progesterone surge was too low, it could be involved in forming cysts. It should rise high, then higher still after ovulation. i.e. there's no break in the level rising. I see the problem you have with measuring! I've found an almond sized dollop of cream is approximately 1ml which would give you 33.3mg progesterone. I have a very accurate scale which measures down to 100mg. I often just apply it to my hands and then rub the rest up my arms, maybe this would be an idea? Leaving the cream in the air does form a skin over it, but it mixes in easily. I find this happens when I cut open the tube and leave the rest for the next application. let me know if my ideas help. Take care Wray
Aug 03, 2013
 Aug 03, 2013 Rating Submitted by: Cystic
by: Cystic

Dear Wray,

Thank you for the new links.

Sorry I didn't mention I was talking about thyroid antibodies - Anti-TPO and Anti-TG. I don't want them to attack my thyroid gland :)

I'll have my thyroid tests in September, or maybe October; I'll proceed from there.

As for the cream, I think I'll get the 100mg dose ready in the morning, apply some, then put the measuring spoon with the remaining cream in it into a small container with a lid to prevent contact with air, just in case :) As I use it up (while at home), I'll squeeze out the 2nd dose. Don't want to measure out the entire day dose at once, I have a container suitable for this smaller measuring spoon :)

Take care,
Cystic
Aug 04, 2013
 Aug 03, 2013 Rating Submitted by: Cystic
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Ah that does change things, thanks! Don't forget the 'almond' measurement, it might be less complicated! Take care Wray
Aug 06, 2013
 Cystic .... HELP
by: Joy

Hi Cystic

I need your help!! I have only just read this thread between you and Wray and I am battling to remember your name! There are so many people using pseudonyms. We have had email correspondence and I am really at a loss.

Please contact me through my website - see here. I just know I will kick myself.

Many thanks.
Aug 08, 2013
 A positive shift in PMS
by: Cystic

Dear Wray and Joy,

I just wanted to let you know that for the past 3 days I increased the progesterone dosage a little (I guesstimate it was about 250mg), and the pain in my breasts started to subside, and today they ache no more! My mood is much better, too.

Dear Wray, I tried the "almond measurement" and found it useful, thank you!

Best wishes,
Cystic
Aug 09, 2013
 A positive shift in PMS
by: Wray

Hi Cystic I'm delighted the higher amount has helped, and the 'almond measurement'. I had another woman finding it difficult to guestimate the amount, so wandered around the kitchen looking for something easy to eyeball. So I squeezed out a millilitre of cream, placed an almond next to it, and thought that'll do! Take care Wray
Aug 15, 2013
 Endometrial cyst, treatment plan outline - need your advice, please
by: Joy

Hi Cystic

Yay, wonderful news that the extra amount has helped you. Sometimes we find it rather difficult explaining to people to increase the amount, some seem rather nervous to do this as they have 'read' somewhere that higher amounts is not good. This is of course, a misconception.

A big advantage of a cream is that you can use it to suit your needs i.e. if stressed for whatever reason, symptoms can return, one would then increase the amount used to get over the stressful period and then reduce back down again. The same applies to vitamin D, stress destroys the BOTH!

Keep at it, it does work!!

Take care.
Aug 15, 2013
 A little sad...
by: Cystic

Hi dear Wray and Joy,

Thank you both for your comments!

Indeed, I'm not afraid of taking higher amounts of progesterone, although I wish my body managed to regulate its hormones properly. Progesterone makes me feel so normal, especially mentally and emotionally.

Now, it seems I need to go back to a higher dose again. I reduced the amount back to usual when my "period" started 6 days ago. It's hard to call it a period, I had only one day of light bleeding and a couple of days of spotting. It has happened before NatPro, too, so I can't really say that progesterone was responsible for what I think was an anovulatory bleeding.

Anyway, since I felt estrogenic since last cycle, I decided to find out if maybe I had developed a follicular cyst in my right ovary which would keep producing estrogen, making my current NatPro dose less effective.

My main ultrasound for the endometrial cyst and the small fibroid follow-up is scheduled in September, but I was impatient and had an initial folliculometry test yesterday just to see what was going on. The test showed 5 maturing follicles in my right ovary (the left is occupied with the endo cyst), 2 of which were mature enough to be recorded as dominant at the size of 12mm and 10mm (cycle day 5). The ultrasound technician wondered whether I was TTC and my ovaries had been stimulated. She was surprised to hear a negative answer.

A follow-up exam will be performed tomorrow, as suggested by the tech, to monitor how fast the follicles are growing. And then, I'll have a couple of follow-ups to see when or whether they're going to ovulate.

So it appears my ovaries -- or follicles, to be precise -- are actively producing estrogen now, which makes me sad. It appears I need to combat it with increased amount of progesterone.

Sorry if this was long, but I wanted to keep you updated.

Take good care :) I love you both :)

Cystic
Aug 16, 2013
 Follow-up
by: Cystic

Hi again,

Today, on cycle day 7, the two dominant follicles were 15mm and 12mm.

Forgot to mention endometrium thickness in my previous comment. Two days ago, it was 4.9mm, today it was 7.5mm.

I think there's nothing extraordinary in the growth rate of the follicles or the endometrium, although I didn't expect them to be growing at the same pace as they used to. My ovaries and endo seem to not be "noticing" the extra progesterone in my body ;) Next ultrasound is planned on day 11, on Tuesday.

Take care :)
Cystic
Aug 17, 2013
 A little sad...
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Thanks for this info. I can't remember if we've spoken about iodine before? If the follicles do ovulate then there's nothing to worry about, but if not, you could consider taking iodine. It helps not only with Breast Cysts, but nodules found in the thyroid and ovarian cysts too. See here, here, here here and here. This is a good supplement as it includes tyrosine too, see here. These are two Iodine complexes here and here. Please let us know how you get on. Hugs to you too! Take care Wray
Aug 17, 2013
 Follow-up
by: Wray

Hi Cystic See how you get one in the coming days. It could be you need to take the NAC, taurine, bioflavonoids, and increase your vitamin D if your level is too low. These all help the reproductive system. There's more info about them on our Menstruation page. Take care Wray
Aug 17, 2013
 iodine, etc.
by: Cystic

Hi dear Wray,

I thought 200+ mg progesterone should've altered my cycle in some way, maybe by stopping follicle growth, preventing me from ovulating (?).

Yes, we have discussed iodine. I followed an iodine treatment protocol for ovarian cysts, but had to quit it because my thyroid antibodies increased in number. Besides, the almost 6 months long treatment made no visible change, as far as my ovaries and cysts/follicles are concerned.

I take 10000 IU of vitamin D daily, my last D3 level was about 67ng/ml, 3 months ago. I also take NAC, taurine, glycine, glutamine, R-LA, Magnesium, B6, iron and vitamin C with bioflavonoids. Iron is for my chronically insufficient ferritin. I'll be having a test next week, and if my ferritin is still low, I'm going to test my thyroid hormones and antibodies once again, though my thyroid hormones and TSH have always come back normal. I know low ferritin is common with hypothyroidism, so I will consider trying iodine again, or maybe I'll try thyroid hormones (have found a glandular I could use). I need to finish my 3 months NatPro journey first, though. Less than a month to go before I decide what to do next.

Today, I feel better emotionally, with increased amount of NatPro.

Thank you again for your efforts!

Hugs,
Cystic
Aug 21, 2013
 iodine, etc.
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Thanks for coming back to me with all you're taking. I find it hard to keep up with everyone, but do try to spend time looking back up the pages. I'm not sure if I've given you this article before, but he always has interesting things to say, it's about the thyroid, see here. 200mg+ progesterone usually helps cysts, but yours seems a particularly difficult case. It could be just a question of time, or getting your ferritin up, or checking your thyroid and adjusting that if needs be. It will be interesting to see what three months brings. Take care Wray
Sep 07, 2013
 Urgent advice needed, please
by: Cystic

Dear Wray,

Sorry I don't have time to search for the answer in the forum... I'd like to ask you when and how you would recommend using NatPro following a surgery, a laparoscopic cystectomy.

I'm going to have my endometrial cyst removed (it has not 'reacted' to progesterone), so I need to know how to proceed with NatPro afterwards.

Sorry, I can't go into more details now, but I'll keep you updated after the surgery.

Thanks,
Cystic
Sep 10, 2013
 Urgent advice needed, please
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Pity it didn't respond, but it is best to have it removed rather than continuing to hope it would. Stress of any kind drops progesterone, no less surgery which is very stressful to the body. So you might need more after the surgery than you are currently using. It does heal wounds very well if you should wish to apply some to the wound itself. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Sep 10, 2013
 Endometrial Cyst
by: Joy

Hi Cystic

So sorry to hear this, I do know that it does take time for cysts to disappear, it took a long time for mine to go, thank goodness they did with the help of progesterone. I am sure that Wray will respond just as soon as she can.

If you like please inbox me your details, in the meantime I would suggest that you continue using Natpro daily as you have been, cysts usually re-appear, they did with me and progesterone will help to keep them away. I can't remember off hand how much cream you are using now, but I would think that 200mg per day is needed but let Wray confirm this with you.

Take care.
Joy
Nov 11, 2013
 Update after surgery
by: Cystic

Dear Wray and Joy,

Thank you very much for your care :)

Sorry I did not write an update earlier. Really busy...

Dear Joy, sorry I didn't email you, I was "overloaded with myself" :) I was using about 220mg daily.


I had my cyst removed in September, confirmed to be an endometrial one. They also found and treated a couple of endometrial lesions in my pelvis. Turns out I had a full-blown endometriosis, but, thanks God, no pain associated with it!

I really doubt progesterone would've helped to get rid of an "aged" endometrial cyst. I was hopeful when started (otherwise I wouldn't have), but 3 months of treatment with no change in the cyst, and with worsening condition in my other ovary, made me finally decide to have the endo cyst removed surgically.

I decided not to apply progesterone after surgery because of the experience with my right ovary which had gone "crazy" while on Natpro, producing more follicles than before. Just to remind, the endo cyst was in my left ovary.

So for now, I'm in a stand-by mode :)

I hope you're doing well! Thanks again for all your help!

Hugs to you both,
Cystic
Nov 15, 2013
 Update after surgery
by: Wray

Hi Cystic Well I’m relieved you had it removed, there’s no point going further that you had done. I doubt anything besides surgery would have removed an ‘aged’ cyst! Interesting they found you have Endometriosis, you were lucky not to have any pain. Do let us know how you get on. Take care Wray

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