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Bio-identical hormones

by Judy
(Champaign, IL)

Went into menopause in 2009. Had my last period June 2009. Had had some cold symptoms, eye allergy symptoms, head allergy symptoms previous to that in the same year. Began feeling nauseated, ears were ringing, fatigue. Went to the ER a few times, visited a few doctors, all saying I was fine. Finally had FSH checked, was postmenopausal. Was glad to know that I wasnt losing my mind, it was my hormones! Spent most of 2010 searching to feel better, visiting my OBGYN who wanted to slap me on Prempro, tried GNC Menopause Vita Pak, tried living with it. Went on Prempro for a while. Dosed up from the least dose of .325mg, to .45mg, to .625 mg within 3 months, which I think was too soon. Began feeling breast tenderness, had a period like a teenager after 2 years, had some nausea, and headaches. Doc said, too much estrogen. We could keep me on the dose and let my body adjust, lower it, or go off it. Didnt like how I felt, went off it. Then asked about bio-identical hormones. He doesnt recommend them due to not enough clinical testing, they carry the same risks and at least Prempro had been through trials and testing. I finally found a bio identical doctor through a compounding pharmacist. I saliva tested and started my regimen on Oct. 28, 2011. My estrogen was in the normal range for a postmenopausal woman but doctor wanted to see it in the before menopause range. Testosterone was good. My progesterone to estrogen was very low, under the bottom reference range. My cortisol was very low, my dhea very low, and she did bloodwork for Vitamin D, and it was low. I live in the Midwest so we dont get enough sun. She started me on bi-est/test cream, progesterone 100 mg at bedtime, cortisol pellets (3 am, 2 noon, 1 @ 4 pm), Vitamin D 50,000 IU 2 x week for 8 wks then down to 50,000 IU 1 x week. She also increased my thyroid hormone from 88 mcg to 100 mcg. She eventually wants to incorporate Vitamin BComplex, C, and Ashwagandha herb. She figured start out with the important and let me add those to the regimen. I started the cream and regimen on Oct. 28, 2011. First two days, nothing. Next 4 days felt like WOW! Clarity, energy, ready to face the day! Oh, I might add I had substantial ringing in the ears since June 2009 and it was almost not there at all at this point and that has been my most bothersome symptom. I then went on a downhill slide from there not feeling all that great. And today, well, I feel kind of awful. I went to my doctor on 11/15 with symptoms of the way I was feeling and she thought I was estrogen dominant and stopped the cream and incread progesterone to 200 mg at bedtime. Mind you I also take .25 mg of Klonopin and 10 mg Amitriptyline at night previous to all this because of ringing in the ears and migraines. Klonopin helped with anxiety and Amitriptyline for migraine prevention. Neuro determined I wasnt having migraines and said I could get off Amitriptyline but could stay on it if it helped me sleep. So I did. I took my first dose of 200 mg progesterone that night of 11/15. Woke up the next day feeling tired, groggy, weird, stomach bothered me. Then later that day developed a fever, vomiting, and stomach hurt. Read in the 2010 PDR that it can cause a viral infection, which is what I thought I had. My doctor dismissed that it caused that. She thought it was coincidental to taking the progesterone. I have been feeling fragmented emotionally, physically, spiritually. Ive felt teary, sad, depressed, tired, ears ringing through the roof. Called my bio compounding pharmacist and he just refers me back to my doctor. Doesnt want to appear to have 2 doctors trying to help me, but would not give me his input on what could be causing this at all. He's the one who knows about the compounded drugs he prescribes. He makes the recommendation to the doctor about what he thinks the doctor should do regarding the hormones and supplements and then wont input when Im feeling bad? He doesnt give you inserts on any of the stuff he prescribes like traditional pharmacies do. I think they should. They are hormones, drugs, supplements, we are putting into our bodies. We should know of any side effects or have some information about these things to have on hand. I have a call to my doctor. Dont know what she is going to say to do. They probably think Im crazy, but I didnt feel this bad before I got on all this stuff. My husband thinks I should get off all of it. My hormones are out of whack at this point. How can you take away the cream, and then double my progesterone and me not feel bad? Its a double wham to your mood I think. So, that's my story. Thanks for listening.

Comments for Bio-identical hormones

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Nov 26, 2011
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy It doesn't surprise me you feel awful on that cocktail! Why your doctor wanted your oestrogen at pre-menopause levels beats me, and why give you testosterone when your level was fine. Neither should be given to a woman, the risks are not worth it. See our page on HRT for more info on oestrogen. It doesn't matter what form it comes in, it's still oestrogen. And testosterone, see here, here, here, here, here here, here, here, here and here. The vitamin D dose you're getting is very good, for more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. I've run out of space so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray
Nov 26, 2011
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy Incidentally progesterone is good for migraines, see here, here, here, here and here. But oral progesterone is the least effective Delivery system. I suggest you open the caps and add the contents to a small amount of cold pressed oil or a natural skin cream, and rub that on your skin. You'll get the full benefit of the progesterone that way. It should also be used a minimum of twice a day, as levels drop after about 13 hrs. We have two pages I feel you should look through, Menopause and Oestrogen Dominance. All the adverse symptoms you're experiencing are caused by this. It's essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. Take care Wray
Nov 28, 2011
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
Thanks for replying. I really dont know what I need to take at this point. She comes highly recommended but Im not feeling confident with her. She says when I see her on Dec. 9th maybe we would start me on a low dose bi-est/test cream and low dose progesterone. I dont ever want to feel as bad as I did on the stuff I was on. I feel more normal now that Ive been off the DHEA and progesterone since 11/21 and off the cortisol since 11/24. My terrible ringing ears have abated quite a bit and I feel more normal. My husband doesnt want me to go through this kind of thing again. I felt awful. So now Im just not so sure about what to actually take. My est/test was normal for a postmenopausal woman. It was my progesterone, DHEA, Cortisol, and Vitamin D that are low. The pharmacist made his recommendation for me to take all the things prescribed and my doctor makes the final decision but I think starting bi-est/test cream, progesterone, DHEA, Cortisol, Vitamin BComplex, Vitamin C, and the herb Ashwaganda as well as 50,000 IU Vitamin D twice a week for 8 wks then down to 50,000 IU once a week. Just dont know what to take now because I dont want to feel bad all over again.
Dec 01, 2011
 Bio-identical hormones
by:

Im off all the hormones and supplements. Going back to my follow for closure and staying off them. I felt miserable on all the stuff, my ears rang through the roof, they dont now that Im off of it, and I recognize myself again. Been around the block with bio's and my opinion on them isnt the same. There are no clinical trials on them, drug companies wont put in money to study yams because bio's are plant based and they cant patent a plant. There is no evidence that bio's are indeed without the same risks as commercial hormones, the compounding pharmacist make a ton of money off them, and the pharmacist doesnt put in any drug inserts on the hormones or supplements they are giving you and what side effects to be aware of. Also, women have been going through menopause for thousands of years without anything, it is a normal process called aging, and I think Im in a better place to just accept where I am and let nature take its course without using anything.
Dec 02, 2011
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy I do understand your reluctance to try only progesterone. But if you read the other comments on this site, you'll see women have improved, sometimes immeasurably by using it. But it does require far higher amounts than normally recommended, this will only make matters worse. Please whatever you decide, do not go on that cocktail again. And I would suggest for now you give everything a break, except the vitamin D. But it's far better to take this daily, not weekly. We evolved in the sun, we're meant to have high levels, and we're designed to get it daily. We never stayed out of the sun, only going into it once a week! And then if your old symptoms return, consider using progesterone only, never oestrogen, testosterone or DHEA. But if you do use it, please use enough, the 100-200mg/day I recommend. Take care Wray
Dec 02, 2011
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi there I can understand your attitude it you were given a cocktail of hormones as Judy was. I would never recommend oestrogen or testosterone to a woman. There are thousands of trials on progesterone, many of which are on this website. It's been used safely for over 60 years now, very high amounts being given to women with recurrent miscarriages (200-600mg/day), in IVF treatments (200-600mg/day), post natal psychosis (2400mg/day), via IV transfusion for brain trauma victims (over 1200mg/day), the majority of these are men too. It's safety is without question. You are right about women going through menopause for thousands of years, but many factors have changed how this occurs. Not least the oestrogen mimics in our environment, over 100 of these now. We all lack vitamin D too, as we rarely go in the sun, this has an impact of how we feel. And interestingly, studies have found progesterone to be very beneficial in ageing. Take care Wray
Dec 04, 2011
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Dear Wray,
Thank you for your support! I stopped bi-est/test cream on 11/15. I stopped the DHEA and progesterone on 11/21. I stopped cortisol pellets on 11/24. I see my bio-identical hormone doctor on December 9th. Is this enough time to get this all out of my system or is it adviseable to give it a longer break than just a couple weeks. Since getting off the hormones and supplements I feel more normal and like myself now. My progesterone level is low according to my saliva test taken in October. If it is not too soon to go on to progesterone is it advisable to take the capsule form or cream form of progesterone? I was taking 100 mg of progesterone at bedtime because doctor was addressing sleep issues as well. She increased the capsules to 200 mg at bedtime. If capsules are not a good form of progesterone to take then is cream okay and in what strength should it be at in a cream to match a 200 mg capsule dose? I will only address going on progesterone cream with my doctor and am refusing the estrogen/test/dhea. Your input or reply would be greatly appreciated! Judy
Dec 04, 2011
 Progesterone and Vitamin D
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
I have been off everything since 11/24/11. I go back to see my bio-identical hormone doctor on 12/9/11. I do not plan to go back on the cocktail of things I was previously on. I understand from my doctor I am estrogen dominant anyway. I was taking 200 mg. of progesterone in capsule form. This was taken at bedtime because my doctor thought it would help with sleep. So, you are saying it would be better to open the 200 mg capsules and put it in a natural cream and rub it in a couple times a day? I also think my doctor can get it compounded into a cream for me this way as well.

As far as Vitamin D Im not quite what sure to say to the doctor. She currently has me on 50,000 IU twice a week. How can your levels stay consistent if I take 50,000 on Tues. and again on Thurs? I know some meds or supplements stay in your blood longer, so didnt know if the Vitamin D gets out of your system pretty quickly. Dont know what amount might doctor might want me to take. Will probably depend on the results of bloodwork to check my vitamin d levels. I do plan to ask her about taking it daily though.

Im currently taking the Vitamin D so the only thing Im willing to add is the progesterone. I think I read somewhere that when you start taking progesterone it turns on your estrogen receptors thereby it can possibly make you feel a little worse at the beginning when you are estrogen dominant but eventually I would become progesterone dominant. I am understanding this right?

Any insight is appreciated! Thanks! Judy
Dec 04, 2011
 Progesterone and Vitamin D
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Just re-read your posts and understand you to say that oral progesterone is the least effective delivery system and opening the caps and adding the contents to a small amount of cold pressed oil or natural skin cream and rub it on your skin a minimum of twice a day as levels drop after 13 hrs. Think I can get my compounding pharmacy to put this in a cream for me. Will talk to my doctor on 12/9 about this.

And Vitamin D should be anywhere from 4-10,000 IU daily. Dont know how this will relate to the current dose of 50,000 IU twice a week and what amount the doctor will want to adminster daily. Will also talk to her about this on Dec. 9th. Thanks!
Dec 06, 2011
 Progesterone and Vitamin D
by: Wray

Hi Judy Thanks for all the posts, I will answer them all in one for you. It does take time for the hormones to get out of the system. How long is anyone's guess, in someone with a slow metabolic rate it would take longer than someone who has a fast one. It doesn't surprise me you feel better! Too many doctors play Russian roulette with us, throwing a host of drugs at us, in the hopes they work. If only they would take the time to study Peri-menopause and Menopause. It's really very simple if they would realise oestrogen only drops at menopause. But progesterone starts dropping from age 35 when we begin having anovulatory cycles. If we don't ovulate we don't make progesterone, so during the luteal phase there's nothing to counter the rising oestrogen. As this also peaks during the luteal phase, all hell can break loose. I see you've read my bit about opening the caps, it does mean you will get the full benefit of the progesterone if you do this, pity to waste what you have. I'm such a believer in progesterone I know it will help you. But please make sure you use enough, I do not want you to suffer any more than you already have, I see no point to it! Too many women are put off progesterone by the adverse symptoms they get when first using it. And it's only because they were advised to use too low an amount. Oestrogen Dominance can be very unpleasant! You might be interested in seeing the Saliva Tests we run. They're done for us by a naturopath in the UK to make sure the progesterone is well absorbed. We've found from these that the progesterone to oestrogen ratio should be 600:1 and over to feel well. The cream is extremely light, so rubs in well, I think even some of the creams are too thick for the progesterone to go in. If you have your results check your P:E2 ratio. And you are right about the vitamin D, the level will not be consistent if using it once a week. Although it works out at about 7,000iu's per day, it will be very erratic, peaking when you take it, then dropping till the next dose. I'm sure you can get the right dose from a health shop, either 5000iu's or 10,000iu's if your level is low. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Dec 06, 2011
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

These are my saliva results:

Estradiol in range at 1/2 (range is 0.5-1.7 for postmenopausal with optimal being 1.3-1.7

Progesterone is in range at 12. (range is 12-100 for postmenopausal with optimal being 100-500)

Ratio: Pd/E2 is out of range low at 10. (optimal range is 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

Testosterone is in range at 19. (range is 16-55 age dependent)

DHEA is out of range at 1.9. (range is 2-23 age dependent)

Morning Cortisol is out of range at 2.8 (range is 3.7-9.5

My dose of Levothyroxine was increased from 88 mcg to 100 mcg a couple months or so ago.

I take 50,000 IU of Vitamin D 2 x week until Dec. 23 then go down to 50,000 IU once a week after that.

My doctor spoke with the compounding pharmacist. My doctor never said that she wanted to start me on estrogen/testosterone cream. Her letter states that she wanted to start me out on progesterone in pill or cream form. I think that she allowed the pharmacist's recommendations to override what her original recommendation were in her dictated letter.

I will be running out of room, so will continue below.
Dec 06, 2011
 Bi
by: Judy

Dear Wray:
When I see my doctor on Dec. 9th I am going to address using progesterone only, nothing else. She originally had me on 100 mg of progesterone to start out with on 10/28 and on 11/15 she increased the progesterone to 200 mg tablet form.
I plan to speak with her about using a cream form and finding out if we cannot utilize my existing new 200 mg progesterone capsules into this cream somehow or otherwise it is a financial waste. I would think the compounding pharmacist can recommend a cream to use with the contents of the 200 mg capsules.
Also, I think the only reason that she recommended the progesterone at bedtime was due to my not sleeping well. I do not think she is of the opinion that capsule form is less of a delivery system but we'll see. Again, only reason she said bedtime was to help with sleep so she might very well have me take it twice a day and from what I understand using it during the day could make me a little tired but I would think I would eventually get used to that wouldnt I?
I do like the idea of using cream and using it about every 12 hrs. so I get a steady dose and my levels dont drop. I do not plan on taking any estrogen/test cream, or DHEA, or any other supplement. The pharmacist she uses I think kind of pushes the supplements because it means good $$ to him and his pharmacy. Im going in and sticking with my guns of wanting progesterone cream to be applied twice a day and to talk to her about my Vitamin D.
I spoke to a regular pharmacist who said that it was okay to only take it twice a week because it is fat soluble and stored in your fat so you wouldnt eliminate it quickly so Im kind of confused on that. Still will bring up with my doctor on Dec. 9th. Will let you know how it goes.
Two days after I got off all the concoctions I was on my tinnitus I developed in menopause went very low for about 6 days. I read (on this site?) that when you take estrogen at first it activates your progesterone receptors thus making you feel better until the oestrogen becomes dominant and then you feel bad again.
I think by removing the est/test cream and adding 200 mg of progesterone (do you think that is a good healthy dose?) at first I read you might not feel 100% because you are activating your estrogen receptors but once you get going on the progesterone you become progesterone dominant.
I hope I understand correctly. By golly, I am going to win this fight to become progesterone dominant and hopefully have good news to report soon. Will let you know how things go. Any reply to the above before then would be appreciated! Thanks!
Dec 09, 2011
 Progesterone
by: Judy

Dear Wray:
Just an update. Saw my bio-hormone doctor today. She felt in her heart of hearts that I am estrogen dominant. We both agreed to go on progesterone only and to utilize my existing progesterone by opening the capsules and splitting the dose and mix 50 mg into some applesauce and take at bedtime and save the other 50 mg and put it in some applesauce and put it in the fridge. She said if I tolerate 50 mg well then maybe go up to 50 mg in the am and 50 mg in the pm both in applesauce. If I do well with that I could eventually go up to 200 mg and even divide that dose into 100 mg in the am and 100 in the pm. It is really up to me. I told her I thought I did okay with the 100 mg dose of progesterone originally. I couldnt say for certain whether or not the 200 mg dose was too much or not because I was on all the other stuff such as the bi-est/test cream, dhea, cortisol, and more so I didnt really know what was making me feel bad.

So I decided to continue to use the 100 mg Progesterone I have and use that up and then use my 200 mg progesterone capsules and open them and divide the dose into applesauce and take 100 mg in the am and 100 in the pm. She said I could experiment with it but whatever dose I use I should give it two weeks unless I can absolutely tell I am feeling bad, then back it down. She said that way you can see what dose is really good for me. She said if I feel bad on 100 mg. that I could go down to 50 mg. So, in essence just kind of play with it and see how I feel and adjust it accordingly. So, I started out and took a 100 mg this evening so we shall see. Hope I get relief and feel okay. My doctor said that a good range to take is 100-200 mg because you will see faster results than starting out low but said starting out low if I felt better in the long run was okay but I wouldnt get relief of symptoms as quickly. So, I chose 100 mg at bedtime in capsule form. I hope that this works. She said I should start seeing a difference in a few days. I truly hope so!
Dec 10, 2011
 Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Judy I see I missed two comments, so will answer them all in one. Re the vitamin D, 5000iu's/day is the barest minimum you should take. You are currently taking more than this, but as twice weekly doses, reducing to once weekly. We're not designed to make vitamin D on a once weekly basis, but on a daily basis. Levels drop off quite sharply if taking a weekly dose. Please consider taking it daily. A lack of vitamin D is implicated in thyroid problems, see here, here and here. I'm pleased your doctor was thinking only of progesterone, and not the cocktail. But I can't agree about the delivery system, oral is the least effective. There are plenty of studies showing this on our page Delivery systems. Oral progesterone can make one sleepy, far better to do as I suggest and add the contents of the caps to some oil or a natural skin cream, rather then the applesauce and taking it. You'll get the full benefit. 200mg/day is a good amount, but only if it's not oral! So much destroyed in the gut and liver, leaving little behind. Besides putting a strain on the liver having to metabolise it. Even using 200mg/day Oestrogen Dominance can kick in, so please be aware of it. I've found if women initially use 400mg/day they rarely have it. If you do feel bad, it's not because you're taking too much progesterone and should therefore lower the amount, but because you're not using enough. Symptoms of oestrogen dominance will go if you reduce the amount, as you're no longer stimulating oestrogen. But the whole idea is to suppress it sufficiently to feel well. It normally takes far longer than 2 weeks to begin to feel well! The only way to suppress excess oestrogen is to increase the amount. You might like to see these comments here, here, here, here, here and here. Continued below. Take care Wray
Dec 10, 2011
 Progesterone Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Judy Starting low I've found causes more problems than those already experienced. This is the reason so many women complain about progesterone and stop using it. The 20-40mg/day that is normally recommended stimulates oestrogen and will continue stimulating it. It only produces 1-2ng/ml progesterone, see here, whereas in the normal luteal phase women produce 5-20ng/ml. If this was sufficient to counter the oestrogen, we wouldn't be troubled with the adverse symptoms we do get. So what point is there in giving a low level? Please don't expect fast relief, please consider rubbing the contents on your skin and not taking it, but let me know how you get on either way. Take care Wray
Dec 10, 2011
 Progesterone
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
My doctor was just trying to use up the progesterone capsules I already have was why she was having me take it in the oral form. She was concerned about using a cream because of it being abosrbed by belly fat. She did say that I would need to rub it in on a place such as the top of my foot, wherever the skin was thinnest. I am sure we can go to cream, she's just trying to use up what I currently have.

Im trying 100 mg capsule at bedtime. It does help with sleep. She said I could also take just 50 am and 50 pm, or I could even do 100 mg capsule opened up and half taken in the am and pm. She said I could eventually go up to the 200 mg capsule taken at bedtime. Once the capsules are gone then I can have the option of compounding a cream. If I open up the capsules what kind of cream can I put this into if I decide to use a cream? I started at 100 mg because I dont want a slow dismal ride out of estrogen dominance. Thanks!
Dec 10, 2011
 Progesterone
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Im starting on 100 mg at bedtime, capsule form. I can get a newly compounded progesterone cream but I have about eight (8) 100 mg capsules to use up. Im willing to open up the capsules and use it but dont know what type of cream to buy? I figure I can do at least 100 mg to start (50 mg in the am and 50 mg in the pm and work my way up to the 200 mg capsules and use 100 mg in cream in the am, and 100 mg in cream in the pm. So....where do I get a cream and what kind? Doctor said a cream should be rubbed on thin skin such as the foot. Once my capsules are gone I will order a new Rx of progesterone cream in place of the capsules. Thanks for you help! Judy
Dec 11, 2011
 Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Judy I realise she was trying to use them up, I was too, as it is a pity to waste them. But I think you'll find a noticeable difference if you add the contents to an oil or cream. Any skin cream will do, although I prefer people to use one with no synthetic ingredients. So many ask about the saturated fat issue, although I've not heard of just the belly fat absorbing it. I don't believe it's true, although I have only found one paper to date which backs up my argument, see here. It states…" Despite the low serum progesterone levels achieved with the creams, salivary progesterone levels are very high, indicating that progesterone levels in serum do not necessarily reflect those in tissues." If the fatty tissues were indeed saturated, and little progesterone was 'escaping', the study would have found the reverse, i.e. low saliva levels. From Saliva Tests we run, it's evident the progesterone is getting around. The tests are done by a naturopath in the UK, and she does a before and after test for comparison. You'll see levels have risen dramatically, but more to the point the women were feeling well. Incidentally we've found it's best to have a ratio over 600:1. The naturopath herself has been using Natpro for 15 years now, as have I, and we don't have to keep increasing the amount to get the same benefit. Which of course would be the case if the progesterone was bound up in fat cells, or the receptors had become insensitive, which is another misconception doing the rounds. It's excellent for the skin, particularly the face, see here. I doubt this study would have been successful if the receptors on the face had become de-sensitised. Continued below. Take care Wray
Dec 11, 2011
 Progesterone Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Judy It appears, if using progesterone early enough, i.e. in Peri-menopause or before, it suppresses the excess androgens women make in Menopause, see here. This prevents visceral fat forming. Testosterone is notorious at increasing visceral fat, see here and here. The combination of oestrogen and testosterone ensure a middle aged woman will get 'middle age spread'. It's not essential either to rub it only on the thin skinned areas, I put it everywhere. My face, neck and breasts every day, in my vagina at night, and the remainder rather haphazardly on my body. 100mg/day is the barest minimum you should use, I've found if using 400mg/day women rarely get any Oestrogen Dominance symptoms. You've been pumped full of hormones, so please be aware of adverse symptoms occurring. If they should increase the amount you're using, it can be used hourly if need be. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Dec 12, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Judy

Is 100 or 200 mg considered a low dose? I thought that was the standard starting dose when you are estrogen dominant. My doctor is being cautious about starting me on more than 200 mg because when I was on all the bio-identicals est/test/prog plus DHEA/Cortisol I did not feel well so that's why she is starting at 100 mg. She is really leaving it up to me where I want to start. She said you can start low at 50 mg at bedtime, even said you can start at 50 mg 2 x day, or at 100 mg at bedtime, and go by how Im feeling. Out of precaution she said to take whatever dose for 2 weeks and then go up. So its really up to me. Ive been taking 100 mg at night before bed. The reason she prescribed capsules was because of sleep issues. It's day 4 on the 100 mg. I did have a rough day yesterday with some mood swings that was wasnt pleasant. Ive read that when you start progesterone it activates your estrogen receptors so that at the beginning you might feel some estrogen dominant effects until the progesterone becomes dominant. From my understanding the 100-200 mg dose is a good starting point and from what I read cream is better. So Im thinking that getting a cream form would be better but I have some confusion about this whole thing. I dont know how they compound a 100 or 200 mg dose into cream. I dont know if it would be better to go to the higher dose because I am paying for the cream and if I only get the equivalent of 100 mg dose in the cream form and find I need more then there I am stuck with a dose that's too low that Ive paid for. But as I said earlier I dont know how its compounded into a cream. Such confusion! Im thinking that getting a higher dose in a cream is better and if I need to just use less. I think I need to call my compounding pharmacy. And, btw, I see you sell Natpro on here. I am concerned about buying progesterone cream online because I dont know whats in it, what the dose is, where it comes from, etc. I dont like to blindly trust a cream and not know anything about where it comes from or whats in it. Any thoughts on my comments would be of great help. For now Im just going to call my compound pharmacist and get some info on the cream. I am wanting to make my money count as Ive already spent $362 in a matter of a month on bio-identical products and am not wanting to waste money. Thanks!
Dec 12, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Have finally come to a good place deciding to use progesterone cream after talking with another compounding pharmacist other than the one I was using. This pharmacist was informative and supportive which I needed and I now have a full understanding of what I am doing and the options open to me. Needless to say I am switching compounding pharmacists and my doctor is going to prescribe 100 mg 2 x day. The pharmacist said that I could still have the option with this cream of only doing 50 mg 2 x day and she would show me what to do when I pick up the cream. So that's what I am going to do. Im going to give it a go on the lower dose for a bit and then see if I actually need the higher dose. Nice part about it is that you can play with the dose. Will let you know how I get along. Thanks for your support!
Dec 12, 2011
 Estrogen Dominance page link not working
by: Judy

I was on your page about Estrogen Dominance. Down near the bottom of the page and just above where the references are listed there is a link as follows that when you click on the link it does not work. Just wanted to let you know. The link is as folows:

Learning more about how to use progesterone cream can help lessen the effects of estrogen dominance.

Thanks, Judy

Hi Judy Thanks!! I've just checked too, and find there is also another link not working. The website has recently been ungraded and we are finding a few glitches ourselves, plus help from others! Take care Wray
Dec 12, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Judy Don't let the compounding confuse you, progesterone is made in many different forms, and the manufacturers know how to do it. There are injections, suppositories, creams (these three absorb the best), then there are oral capsules, troches, inserts under the skin (mostly used for animals), fizzy vaginal tablets, vaginal gels and oils. If you want to know more see our page on Delivery systems. As far as I'm aware I'm the only one I know advocating 100-200mg/day or more. The standard amount advised by all others is 20-40mg/day. As I've explained to you this is far too low. I've also found starting low when excess oestrogen is present causes bad Oestrogen Dominance. I have women using 400mg/day, some going as high as 800-1000mg/day. Some use it twice daily, some use it hourly, this is especially good for hot flushes. You do have to find the amount that suits best, it is trial and error. I'm just concerned using only 100mg/day will not help you. Particularly as it's oral and most is being destroyed so you're not getting much. You've already experienced one bad day with it. You were pumped so full of the other hormones, these are still present, albeit in low amounts now, but they can react to the progesterone. Re the Natpro, we do have a list of ingredients you can look at, see here. None of them are toxic, some have organic validation for use in natural and organic skin care. About half the people who write in on this site use it, so why not look around at their comments. We also know it's absorbed well, as a naturopath in the UK, who's been prescribing it for 15 years, runs Saliva Tests for us. So see how you get on and let me know. Take care Wray
Dec 13, 2011
 Progesterone
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Thanks for replying. I am going with the cream and my doctor is prescribing 100 mg 2 x day. Once in the morning and once in the evening. My doctor wants me to start low on 50 mg in the morning and then 50 mg in the evening and I can go up to the 100 mg in the morning and 100 mg in the evening as quickly as I want to, she's left that up to me. Im only taking the 100 mg capsules at this moment until this Friday when I get my cream.
Dec 13, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Just wanted to let you know I am starting on progesterone cream 200 mg dose divided into twice a day. I pick it up on Friday. Will let you know how things go. Im feeling somewhat better on the 100 mg dose Ive been on for just a few days so I cant wait to see how much better I will feel on 200 mg! :) Thanks!
Dec 14, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Judy I'm delighted you are last beginning to feel better, you've had such a rough ride. I do so wish doctors would look into the hormones more thoroughly. They do us such a disservice by dishing them out as they did to you, and so many others too. And of course progesterone gets a bad name as it's given combined with oestrogen and testosterone, and in far too low an amount too. Please, please be aware of Oestrogen Dominance when you start the cream. I feel you will get it, due to the other hormones still floating around. But also because you will be getting the full benefit of the progesterone, as none is destroyed as it is when taken orally. Please be aware of this. And if it should occur, increase the amount, do not decrease it. This will give temporary relief as oestrogen is not being stimulated, but it won't suppress the excess oestrogen you have. Take care Wray
Dec 15, 2011
 Progesterone Cream
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
So many things going through my mind. Ive been one week on 100 mg dose and have been doing ok on it. I understand if I go up to 200 mg in a cream I may get sx's of estrogen dominance. I do not understand how I can increase the dose without calling my doctors office for a few reasons. #1...she prescribed that dose based on my sx's. #2...she wants me to try this dose for 2 months then come in and see her
#3...If I use up all the cream before the next refill is due it will be obvious I changed my dose and I may not be able to get a refill before its due and the pharmacy may have to call my doctor, or I might have to call my doctor, all before getting a refill. I think my point is I dont know how to increase the dose without letting my doctor or pharmacist in on it and informing them I want to do that. If I buy cream online I can use it how I wish to, but, Ive got a doctor involved and that means things will happen a little differently. I will certainly watch for estrogen dominance. I would think it would be normal to have estrogen dominant sx's with increasing the dose to 200 mg and in cream form, but dont you think in time the 200 mg will become the dominant hormone?

Also needed to clarify what your last comment meant after you talked about increasing the progesterone if I get symptoms....you said something like:

"It will provide temporary relief but wont suppress the excess estrogen". What does suppress it? Did you mean temporarily increasing the dose will provide relief but I need to make a permanent increase to see a difference??? Just guessing. Please let me know. Thanks, Judy
Dec 15, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Judy

HI WRAY:
I JUST COPY AND PASTED SOME OF THE ESTROGEN DOMINANCE INFORMATION SO I COULD ASK QUESTIONS. MY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ARE CAPITALIZED AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST.

Symptoms of estrogen dominance:

aches and pains
anger
bleeding which comes either earlier or later than usual
bloating/weight gain due to water retention
breast tenderness
bruising
breast tenderness
bruising
constipation
dizziness
headaches
heart palpitations
hot flushes
hypoglycaemia
increased appetite/cravings
irritation
migraines
mild depression
mood swings
muscle weakness
nausea
skin problems/acne/melasma
spotting
tiredness/chronic fatigue
weight gain

If you experience any of these symptoms then your choice is to either...

increase the dose and persevere with the symptoms, OR reduce the dose considerably to begin with and then gradually increase it over a month or two. This will understandably take longer to resolve symptoms.

SO, LETS SAY RIGHT NOW TO START WITH IM HAVING SX'S OF ESTROGEN DOMINANCE BEFORE I EVEN START THE PROGESTERONE. MY SX'S ARE HOT FLUSHES, SLEEP DISTURBED, THROW ON/OFF OF COVERS, MOOD SWINGS BEING MY BIGGEST SX'S.

SO I START TAKING 100 MG IN PILL FORM (HAVE BEEN FOR A WEEK NOW). IT DOES HELP WITH SLEEP. BUT IM FEELING OKAY. THEN I GO ON THE CREAM AND START WITH 100 MG. WOULDNT IT BE BETTER TO START OUT WITH 100 MG...50 MG IN THE AM AND 50 IN THE PM SO AS TO NOT ACTIVATE MY ESTROGEN RECEPTORS TERRIBLY? WOULDNT THE 200 MG IN TWO DIVIDED DOSES PER DAY ACTIVATE MY RECEPTORS EVEN MORE SO AND MORE VEHEMENTLY?

SO LETS SAY I INCREASE IT TO 200 MG WITH THE CREAM AND GET SX'S. IT SAYS I CAN INCREASE THE DOSE AND PERSEVERE WITH THE SX'S OR REDUCE THE DOSE AND THE INCREASE OVER A MONTH OR TWO BUT THIS MAY TAKE UNDERSTANDABLY LONGER TO OVERCOME THE SX'S.

EITHER WAY IT SEEMS I WILL HAVE SYMPTOMS IF I DONT INCREASE THE DOSE OR DO?"?

WILL NOT A DOSE OF 200 MG TAKEN 100 MG IN THE MORNING AND 100 MG AT NIGHT (EVEN THOUGH I MAY GET EST DOMINANCE SYMPTOMS) MORE QUICKLY OVERCOME THE ESTROGEN AND BECOME DOMINANT QUICKER THAN IF I DECREASE THE DOSE AND THE INCREASE IT OVER A MONTH OR TWO??

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS??

THANKS! JUDY

P.S. I DO PLAN TO KEEP IN TOUCH WITH MY PHARMACIST ON MY SYMPTOMS AND MY DOCTOR AS WELL.
Dec 16, 2011
 Progesterone Cream
by: Wray

Hi Judy If you're going to have problems increasing the amount because it's been prescribed, then don't. Short of reading the entire page again, I don't know where you got the phrase "It will provide temporary relief but wont suppress the excess estrogen". Control/find can't pick it up anywhere either. Progesterone in high amounts suppresses oestrogen, progesterone in low amounts doesn't if symptoms are severe. Oral progesterone is mostly destroyed by the gut and liver, although it can help sleep. You point out I say "OR reduce the dose considerably to begin with and then gradually increase it over a month or two". I should have made it clearer, and will amend the statement. But I was referring to an amount so low it won't upset the balance and cause symptoms, ie about 5mg/day progesterone. Some face creams contain this amount as it's good for the skin. This is the first time you've mentioned hot flushes. If you want these to go you'll have to use 400mg/day progesterone for at least 4-5 days. Sometimes it takes longer to resolve, but once it does reduce the amount very slowly. No more than 16mg/day, then stay on that until you feel stable before reducing again. If you continue with the oral progesterone, you'll need to take 300mg/day, but will find it will only reduce the flushes by about half, and will take many months to do so, see here. The higher the amount of progesterone used, the less likely it is to cause any Oestrogen Dominance. Oestrogen doesn't get a chance to show it's face. Take care Wray
Dec 17, 2011
 Progesterone Cream
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Thanks for your input about progesterone and all the information and support you have provided. As of today I am no longer using the capsules. My doctor wrote a new Rx for progesterone cream. I will be using 100 mg in the morning and 100 mg at bedtime. I think I will be fine on the 200 mg divided dose for now and my doctor wants me to stay on this dose for 2 months and then go in for my followup at the end of the 2 months. I plan to monitor how I am feeling and should I have any problems or symptoms of estrogen dominance that I cant rein under control I plan to call my doctor about increasing the dose. Thank goodness I have a good doctor who will monitor my care and if I have any problems she's a phone call away. Im just going to start using the cream and go forward and not worry too much. Im sure I can recognize the signs of estrogen dominance if they come up and can act accordingly. Again, thanks for your help. I will drop a line sometime down the road and let you know how things worked out. Judy
Dec 21, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Judy

On 200 mg progesterone and feeling okay so far.
Dec 22, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Judy I'm delighted to hear this! Do let me know if the hot flushes go on this amount, and how long it took. Take care Wray
Dec 23, 2011
 Progesterone Cream
by: Judy

Ive been on 200 mg of progesterone cream for 3 days and really no hot flashes at all. Im having some sweating but that's due to having to get on a Medrol (steroid) dose pack due to foot related problem. I also am quite "alert and awake" but again that was told to me that that might happen when starting the Medrol steroid pack. My sleep isnt the best while on the Medrol either. The progesterone, not sure how that's helping with sleep. I used to take Amitriptyline for migraines but also it helped sleep due to histamine effect but am off of that now so maybe its because I am no longer taking that that I dont sleep well. My sleep was pretty good on the capsule form of progesterone though. I think it will be fine though once Im done with this 7 days steroid pack. My ears are ringing somewhat more, but dont know if that's related to either the progesterone or the medrol or neither. Dont really think so and doesnt really matter to me the cause though because Ive had ringing ears since June 2009 when I went into menopause and have days where it doesnt bother me and days where it does, so I dont know really what caused it or what makes it go high so I deal with it. But related strictly to the progesterone Ive had no estrogen dominance symptoms, no hot flashes, mood is calmer, believe sleep is improved but will know better as I said when I get off the steroid pack. I have to take the steroid tablets at bedtime so I think again that that has the majority responsibility for sleep issues. All in all, Im tolerating the dose of progesterone fine (200 mg with no apparent problem).
Dec 23, 2011
 Progesterone cream
by: Judy

I have come to believe after research that the progesterone has nothing to do with interfering with my sleep and causing insomnia. It is the Medrol 7 day dose pack of steroids doing this. I recently read that steroids get to wreak havoc on all your crucial glands and hormones including all of the systems that allow you to relax and get some sleep. Not to fear, just remember this is a temporary thing. Once the steroids are out of your system, your endocrine system will reset, reestablishing your natural body clock in the process.

So, here's to next Tuesday when I get to quit taking this stuff and I get to have my sleep back. Missed it last night. But I do think the progesterone helps me sleep as a whole. I have had to resort to an Ambien for sleep while on these beastly steroids and it doesnt do much. Steroids are strong stuff. So when I get off this steroid pack I can even better know how the progesterone is behaving. I had a few days on the cream before I began steroids and everything seemed fine.
Dec 25, 2011
 Progesterone Cream
by: Wray

Hi Judy I gave you those papers on how progesterone helps sleep. Plus the ones on migraine too, did you not have a chance to read them? Also the papers on vitamin D and migraine, please look through them again. You shouldn't be having too many problems with 200mg/day progesterone. It was when you were using the very low amount, plus the other hormones that you had problems. This is why I suggested you increase to at least 200mg/day, and to use a cream too, without adding the others. I don't know why you have to take the Medrol, but it's undoubtedly causing the problems you now have. Take care Wray
Dec 25, 2011
 Progesterone
by: Judy

Yes I did read all the information you have given and think I relayed in my last post that Im not feeling any symptoms from the progesterone, only from the steroids I have to take for a week, and the only reason Im taking them is for a severe case of inflammation related to tarsal tunnel in the ankle. I take the last of it tomorrow. Otherwise, feeling fine and I am on 200 mg of progesterone cream so that's all good. Will let you know how I am getting along AFTER I get off these dad-gum steroids. Thanks!
Dec 26, 2011
 Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Judy Oh good, I would like to know how you get on. Take care Wray
Jan 22, 2012
 4-5 days without progesterone
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
I have missed 4-5 consecutive days without my progesterone. I was on 200 mg of progesterone daily. Can I just resume where I left off? Any concerns you can think of? Ive been feeling in a "fog", tired, and a headaches or two here an there and wondering if that has to do with the lack of progesterone that short time. Thanks!
Jan 23, 2012
 4-5 days without progesterone
by: Wray

Hi there Missing 4-5 days will allow oestrogen to rise again, hence your symptoms! When you start the progesterone you will feel these get worse, before getting better. It's the same old 'progesterone stimulates oestrogen' story. Even women using progesterone every two hours, get them when changing from applying every two hours to every hour. I hope it settles down soon! Take care Wray
Jan 25, 2012
 Restarting progesterone
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Yes how quickly the estrogen becomes dominant again. Started getting the hot flushes (not sweats) at night and throwing off the covers. I started it back up two days ago. Yes did feel some symptoms from starting it back up "that old progesterone stimulates estrogen" but know the sx's will die down.

Thanks!
Jan 25, 2012
 Restarting progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Judy It is amazing how quickly it can. I do hope it calms down soon. Take care Wray
Feb 13, 2012
 Restarting estrogen and progesterone
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Been going pretty well on the progesterone. Stopped it upon learning of a mini-stroke I had had. I am resuming it along with some estrogen. My doctor is prescribing 1 mg estrogen to 100 mg progesterone twice a day. Total dose is 2 mg estrogen to 200 mg progesterone. I just really felt I needed some estrogen as well. We're being cautious on the estrogen and not prescribing much. And only staying on this a year or two, due to the aneurysm and mini stroke that occurred. Should be getting it tomorrow or the next day. Wish me luck. Im hoping all goes well on it. Judy
Feb 14, 2012
 Restarting estrogen and progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Judy Sorry to hear about the mini-stroke, are you sure your vitamin D levels are high enough? Please be careful about the added oestrogen, as it does increase the risk of strokes, see our page on HRT. There's another link on the page leading to the research papers, you'll find amongst these some on stroke. Take care Wray
Feb 14, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
I am not sure where my original comment went that I posted here a couple days ago, but just wanted to say that I am starting a low dose of estrogen and progesterone. It is 2 mg of estrogen to 200 mg progesterone divided into two daily doses of 1mg estrogen/100 mg progesterone taken once in the morning and once in the evening. Im trying bio identicals one more time and giving it 3 months to see if I get sufficient relief. My doctor told me the other day that some people just dont do well on them and they arent as effective, so wish me luck. Hoping it works. Judy
Feb 14, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy Your comment is above my answer above this! I don't like the idea of you using oestrogen again, and said so. I'm also puzzled by one thing, as in Dec you said you were feeling fine on the 200mg/day, what changed? It could well be you need more. You were on such a cocktail when you first wrote here, it's only two and half months ago, and can take far longer than that for many women to feel well. Please read these comments for users of high amounts, who had to use them for some time before finding relief, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Take care Wray
Mar 01, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

I do realize that it can take longer for women to feel well and that I was on quite a cocktail no doubt and do know that it's only been around 3 months ago now. Dont think my doctor will actually at this point increase my progesterone. I know how you feel about using estrogen but I dont see how using a mere 2mg estrogen to 200 mg progesterone is going to make me feel bad. I am of the opinion a small amount of estrogen can also have benefit when used in conjunction with progesterone. My reason for feeling this way is I tried Prempro and though now not an advocate of synthetic hormones I truly felt good on a low dose of .3mg estrogen to 50 mg progesterone. My energy was good, my hot flashes stopped, my head felt clear, and my energy was great. It might have been from the progesterone or the benefit could have come from the estrogen. I cant however say that it was just due to the progesterone. I know that my estrogen is within the "normal" range but for a postmenopausal woman, which is not anywhere near where it used to be before menopause and my compounding pharmacist also feels a small amt. of estrogen could be helpful with a larger amt. of progesterone. I think my best thing I could do for me is to simply go forward and take it and keep in touch with my doctor according to how I feel and I think giving it a good 3 month try would only be fair. I did okay on the progesterone alone. I stopped it due to a health scare. I did sleep better, my hot flashes subsided, my moods improved but I still did not feel as good in comparison as to when I was on a low dose of Prempro at the start of menopause. I know also that the funny head feelings in menopause I had while on Prempro subsided. I simply feel I need to trust my doctor and pick a plan and stick with it because I have been stuck in indecision for various reasons regarding if I should take progesterone only or estrogen and progesterone. I just have to go forward over and try something else because I dont feel the progesterone alone was enough. I will come back and let you know how I've been doing. Thanks. Judy
Mar 11, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Been through only two 10 ml vials of estrogen/progesterone cream and feeling good. Dose is 1 ml estrogen/100 mg progesterone rubbed inTWICE a day for a total of 2 mg estrogen to 200 mg progesterone. No fatigue, no hot flushes, sleep improved, mood improved, energy improved. Ears that used to ring significantly since menopause reduced. Seeing nothing negative so far. Keep you posted :)
Mar 12, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy Thanks for coming back to me. I do agree about sticking to one doctor, at least this one doesn't have you on a cocktail. I will be interested to hear how you get on. Take care Wray
Mar 18, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

It's been about 17 days on the estrogen/progesterone cream. I started it somewhere around the beginning of March. Yesterday I had some light spotting but not worried about it. Giving myself the full three months to let my body adjust. Going back to my bio doctor in May and will address anything at that point. Only thing I seem to be suffering is an exhausting upper respiratory infection that has caused breathing problem, an unending cough, postnasal drip, and fatigue that I have been fighting in some degree or another since Feb. 9th. I dont attribute it to the cream, just noting its my most noticeable symptoms I have been going through. Diagnosed with a sinus infection on March 7th. We are experiencing a very warming trend early in the year here in the Midwest with temps at 80 degrees in March and everything is in bloom so I chalk it up to sinus irritation, hoping though that the cream is not adding to the problem. But like I said I just rub the cream in and go on and dont over think the situation. Have noticed some facial flushing but dont know where it's coming from but not too concerned at this point. Will let you know how I continue to do. Thanks.
Mar 21, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy Thanks for letting me know. Have you had your vitamin D levels checked? Upper respiratory tract infections are often an indication it's low, see here, here, here, and here. Take care Wray
Mar 21, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Yes, I've had my D levels checked and they were low. I've been on 50,000 IU Vit. D per week and my doctor has an order for me to go in now and re-check those levels so should know how my levels are doing soon. Thanks.
Mar 23, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Im going today to get my Vit. D levels checked after 3 months. I started my bio's on March 1st. 2 mg estrogen to 200 mg progesterone faithfully rubbed in twice a day. I noticed day before yesterday, and again today, I am VERY fatigued, almost like my legs are even weak, and just feel incapable of functioning much today without great exertion upon my part to get going. I have had some kind of upper respiratory virus or sinus infection or bronchitis of sorts, no one knows for sure but have treated it as a viral infection. I was treated with a Zpack and 5 day dose of prednisone so you will understand my confusion as to what could be causing this symptom of bone tired fatigue. I cant focus/concentrate to meal plan, grocery shop, feel anxious, and overwhelmed by doing the simplest things and Im grouchy and irritated. Just seems incapacitating at times. Again, Im going for my vitamin d level to be checked, but wondering about the bio idential's causing how I feel. I guess anyone's guess is as good as mine. Have a primary doc appt. this week and plan to mention it to her. Thanks. Judy
Mar 25, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy It's the same old story, I don't believe you should be using the oestrogen, it counteracts progesterone, it causes fatigue and muscle weakness. Whereas progesterone and vitamin D prevent myopathy, see here, here and here. Progesterone is vital for the lungs, for respiration and increasing volume. Vitamin D prevents infection, see here, here, here, and here. Take care Wray
Mar 31, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

I go for my 3 month checkup in May. Made her aware of how I felt that day. I have good and bad days. She's having me to bring in the Rx bags that my hormone cream vials come in so she and I can talk about the dose. Im also due soon to test my hormones. I made her aware of the 2 mg of estrogen cream she has me on to make sure she is aware of the dose that was compounded. For now she's got me staying on it until I see her. She had previously felt I was estrogen dominant and I asked for a little estrogen. I totally feel the good effects of the progesterone. Will let you know it goes. Thanks. Judy
Mar 31, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Forgot to mention I had my Vitamin D level checked after being on 50,000 units per week for 3 months. The level is great now and feeling better that I was three months ago prior to being on it. Judy
Apr 06, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy Thanks for the update. although I haven't changed my mind about the oestrogen! And how great are you vitamin D levels, they should be in the region of 70-100ng/ml. Take care Wray
May 02, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Dont have my Vitamin D level labwork in front of me but if I recall right my level is in the range you mention.

I have a new concern though. I have been on a total of 2 mg estrogen to 200 mg progesterone cream. I have been using the cream (1 mg est to 100 mg prog 2 times per day) since March 1st. I had to have an endoscopy (today as a matter of fact). I had to stop aspirin therapy for 5 days prior. All I have taken is a multivitamin, a vitamin c, 2 fish oil capsules, and my bi-est/progesterone cream. Over the past 5 days I have developed an intense itching. We're talking getting out the hairbrush and scratch kind of thing. Personally I would not think stopping aspirin would cause itching. Aspirin can cause itching but havent heard stopping it can cause itching. I've taken the vitamins and fish oil a long time so I dont see that as the culprit, which leads me to hormones. Can the estrogen or progesterone cream be causing the itching? It's occurred over the last five days. Could it be estrogen dominance causing it or progesterone dominance, or a deficiency in either of these. I would liken this problem more to my hormones than any one other thing I take. Any thoughts on this? My scalp, face, arms, back, legs, feet, have all itched a lot. I've been allergy tested to over 140+ items so cant think of anything else to look at. Thanks, Judy
May 03, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy I would have to know more about timing. I gather you've only been using the oestrogen and progesterone since March 1st, only a month? But I thought you'd been using it for much longer than that looking at the correspondence we've had? and what about the doctor who insists on you taking oestrogen, does she not have any thoughts about the itching? And the aspirin, were you taking that before you started the hormones? I'm curious, why are you taking it, do you have clotting problems? If so then you should not be taking oestrogen, which is very effective at causing clots. Whereas progesterone stops them, see here and here. So too does vitamin D, see here, here, here and here. I don't believe any of us needs extra oestrogen, in any form. It's an excitatory inflammatory hormone, a mitogen too, causing cells to proliferate. There's more info on our HRT page. As I've said to you countless times. I'm taking a guess here, as I don't know the timing. But if you were taking the aspirin before you started the hormones, or possibly started at the same time, I would suggest it was suppressing the histamine response you're getting from the oestrogen. So stopping it would allow the effect of the oestrogen to surface, and cause dermatitis, see here. Although there is something they label progesterone dermatitis too, I'm not a believer in this for many reasons. The dermatitis always occurs the few days prior to bleeding, when progesterone is dropping sharply, but oestrogen is not. Plus they use tamoxifen to suppress it, tamoxifen is effective against oestrogen, not progesterone. If progesterone was the cause, it would be far more prevalent than it is, as progesterone levels rise sharply during pregnancy. Plus progesterone inhibits mast cell secretions, see here. So it's hardly likely to cause itching! You could always test my theory, by stopping the oestrogen and the aspirin, and seeing if the itch goes away. Continued below.
May 03, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Judy And if you do have clotting problems, it could be because your progesterone and vitamin D are low, and your oestrogen too high. Please try to find your vitamin D results. I give two measurements, one for America, the other for the rest of the world. I'm not sure which you were looking at, I give them again below. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray
May 06, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Will try to address many of the things in your post below..


IVE BEEN USING PROGESTERONE 200 MG FOR A WHILE. DOCTOR AND I RECENTLY ADDED 2 MG TOTAL OF ESTROGEN. THIS IS TAKEN IN TWO DIVIDED DOSES OF 1 MG ESTROGEN TO 100 MG PROGESTERONE IN CREAM FORM ONCE IN THE AM AND ONCE IN THE PM. I STARTED THE NEW DOSE ON MARCH 1ST WITH THE ESTROGEN AND PROGESTERONE COMBINED IN THE CREAM. I SEE MY BIO DOCTOR ON MAY 10TH TO GO OVER THINGS. IM KIND OF GUESSING WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUT THE ESTROGEN. IT'S MY FAULT, I ASKED FOR IT. I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT ESTROGEN.

DOCTOR IS CURRENTLY ON VACATION. HAD ITCHING FOR A COUPLE DAYS. IT HAS SUBSIDED. IM SURE THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED NEXT WEEK AT OUR APPT.

BEEN TAKING ASPIRIN SINCE JANUARY FOR A POSSIBLE ANEURYSM (TOO LENGTHY TO DETAIL). DOCTOR WANTS BLOOD THINNED BECAUSE FEELS THAT I FORMED A CLOT THAT BROKE UP QUICKLY BUT STILL REPRESENTS A MINI STROKE OR TRANSIENT ISCHEMIC ATTACK. THUS THE REASON FOR ASPIRIN. HAVE CONSULTED A NEUROSURGEONE AND NEUROVASCULAR ON THIS AS WELL.

I WILL PROBABLY BE CHANGING MY RX TO EXCLUDE THE 2 MG ESTROGEN AND JUST KEEP THE PROGESTERONE.

MY VITAMIN D LEVEL IS 78.6 NG/Ml ON A SCALE OF 30-100. I TAKE 50,000 IU WEEKLY AS MINE WAS QUITE LOW. IT WAS ORIGINALLY AT 30.9 ON A SCALE OF 30-100. BUT LEVELS ARE BACK UP NOW.

WILL KNOW MORE WHEN I SEE MY DOCTOR NEXT WEEK.

May 06, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

We will most likely be re-testing my progesterone and estrogen levels soon. My Vitamin D results are in the post above this one.

I do know my progesterone levels were very low. That paperwork is in my file cabinet but it was extremely low. I think the 200 mg progesterone definitely is helping. The estrogen, I dont think is doing me any good. Honestly, dont feel that great on the bio-identicals. I felt better on Prempro but I wont take the synthetic stuff, ick. My neurosurgeon said not to as well.

Will know more next week and let you know.

Thanks,
Judy
May 08, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
This is May 8, 2012. I posted a comment or two yesterday or day before and checked this morning, they arent here, so, Im reposting a short note. If you see this note and wind up seeing my original posts, forgive the repetitiveness.

I see my bio doctor on Thursday to discuss my hormone Rx and we may make a change to it. I am not sure. I dont feel real great on the 1 mg estrogen and 100 mg dose of progesterone taken TWICE daily for a total of 2 mg est to 200 mg progesterone. Doc thought I was estrogen dominant. My progesterone was very low. Im on 200 mg and think it helps. Know you dont like the oestrogen and fully understand your view I think. I asked for the estrogen, not the other way around. She agreed to a small dose. Not really feeling a great benefit on the bio's as far as how I feel, which is not that great on it as a whole. I felt better on Prempro but dont want to on synthetics again. I had more energy and focus and clarity regardless of them being synthetic.

Ive been on various forms of bio identical creams and had problems at the start and then finally went on this last estrogen/prog cream dose and said I would stick with something for 3 months and give it a good try. Im sure my doctor will look closely at my hormones, retest me very possibly, and we may decide on some changes. Will let you know how that goes.

I am also on Vitamin D 50,000 IU and my level is very good now. Was about 30 and now in the 70's reference range. Feel good on this dose and well in the normal range now.

Take care,
Judy
May 22, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Here are the results of the bloodwork to test my hormones. We didnt do saliva testing this time around.
COMPONENT VALUE RANGE

TESTOSTERONE 0.25 0.00 - 0.75 ng/ml

ESTRONE, S 58 pg/mL
-- REFERENCE VALUE --
Premenopausal :17-200
Postmenopausal : 7-40

PROGESTERONE-2 0.8 ng/ml
Menopausal = <0.1 - 0.8 ng/ml
(Not on hormone therapy.)

Dr. did not saliva test. Went to a conference and found evidence to support that bloodwork can be just as viable (Im not so sure) but its $140 for saliva testing and my bloodwork, well, it was covered. I dont think doctor is going to change my hormone Rx. A letter was dictated and mailed to me so kind of waiting for that letter. Her nurse did call me to discuss my results and to let me know she was not planning to change it, but also bases it on how I feel. This was close to a 3 month checkup. Although, the nurse indicated my "bad" estrogen was kind of high which I think is the Estrone value of 58. So Im not sure what to think. I kind of rely on the doctor to tell me what she thinks and she seems to think if I am feeling ok not to change it. Honestly, its hard to know how Im supposed to be feeling. Kind of like feeling your way in the dark. My sleep is not the best. My moods are improved but I am also on Lexapro which has helped me. I go to bed at 10 pm and invariably wake up around 330 am and never sleep through although I do go back to sleep but feel worse when I wake up than if I had gotten up at 330 am. Not sure what to think. Thanks for your suggestions/comments. Judy
May 22, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
Also, this has been my symptoms. My joints ache. I dont sleep well. I dont have a lot of energy. I have low libido. I dont know if testosterone at .25 on a scale of 0.0 to 0.75 is low. I read that you are supposed to balance estrogen and testosterone or it can make your testosterone more deficient. Any truth to this? Thanks. Judy
May 23, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Wray

Hi Judy You're using oestrogen, which is why your level is high. But I thought you were also using progesterone? The result above says you're not. Your level is very low, it falls into the follicular/menopausal range, it's also about the amount a man makes on a daily basis. Your progesterone to oestrogen ratio is 14:1, we've found from Saliva Tests we run that a ratio of 600:1 and over is needed before feeling well. So it doesn't surprise me your joints ache, that you don't sleep well, and that you don't have a lot of energy and have low libido! Oestrogen is an inflammatory hormone, it does disturb sleep and energy, plus by suppressing progesterone, drops libido. Progesterone is responsible for increasing libido, so too is dopamine. Your dopamine is probably low, as your oestrogen is high. My story is still the same, I don't believe you need a cocktail of drugs, only progesterone. Take care Wray
May 24, 2012
 Bio-identical hormones
by: Judy

Hi Wray,
My prescription is 2 mg estrogen to 200 mg progesterone. I split this into two doses per day. 1 ml in the morning and 1 ml at night. Sorry I failed to include the result for progesterone. I am not on anything else as far as hormones go. My doctor was going to leave the dose alone for now but I am going in to meet with her next week because she said my bad estrogen is 58 and most postmeno women are not above 40. I honestly have been cutting back my cream to only once a day right now. I like the 200 mg progesterone, I just dont like the 2 mg of estrogen in it right now. I feel better only using it once per day and plan to go in and ask her about taking out the estrogen out of the cream and just doing progesterone. Ive had spotting as well. My inflammation point used to be 10.2 and is down now to 5.9 and she wants it under 3. She (doc) says the inflammation is because of my insulin levels but Im not so sure about that. Im having my doubts here. I felt pretty good on the 200 mg of progesterone before the estrogen and think that I want to go back to just that.
May 06, 2013
 Bio identical advice needed desperately
by: Sandy

I have been suffering horrible menopausal symptoms including severe anxiety for 3 years, I am 53 and my last period was about 6 years ago. I have been thru counseling for 2 years and finally I found a doc that would check my hormones. My Estradiol was <20 pg and my progesterone was .30 ng. Testosterone was 28 ng and free test. was <.2 pg. I was put on 1 mg 80/20 estriol/estradiol cream and 100 mg progesterone capsule at nite (poor sleep). Anxiety reduced for two weeks then increased again. Still taking .5 Klonopin 3 x daily and 1 mg Xanax as needed. I do go 2 or 3 weeks w/o klonopin as I am afraid of addition. Next blood work showed progesterone moved to 3.29 which is midrange but estradiol still not showing up. Raised estradiol 80/20 to 2 mg. Anxiety severe meds not working. Pharmacist told me I could raise progesterone to 200 mg and being on high side of range since anxiety so bad so I doubled my pills for two days and couldn't get out of bed, weak and sick. Raised estradiol to 3 mg and waiting for blood work. Will know in a few days. I keep hearing I should increase progesterone due to anxiety but 200 was too much and I am told to switch to cream or reduce my progesterone. I think my problem is that I don't show any estradiol. My digestive system is suffering and that is also a sign of low serotonin which is caused from low estrogen. Please help me. My life consists of gasping for air, vomiting, weakness, nite sweats, blurred vision, sore muscles, muscle spasms, tired all the time. I had lots of energy before I started the bioidenticals. My cortisol ( morning) was low normal at 12. DHEA was 84. Any suggestions?
May 08, 2013
 Bio identical advice needed desperately
by: Wray

Hi Sandy Yes stop the oestrogen. All your symptoms are caused by excess in ratio to progesterone. Your initial P:E2 ratio was 15:1 and your ratio now is 165:1. You might like to look at Saliva Tests we run, you'll notice the ratio is about 600:1 and over. You don't need counselling, you need more progesterone. 200mg/day is not too much, unfortunately you're taking oral progesterone, the least effective Delivery system, "The liver and gut region removed a mean of 96 per cent of the progesterone entering these tissues", see here. So you are in effect getting a very small amount, this is only stimulating oestrogen making things worse. There's more info on our Oestrogen Dominance page. I feel you will need at least 400mg/day but in a form which is absorbed well. Progesterone alone won't help the severe Anxiety, please consider taking some of the nutrients listed on this page. Low serotonin can cause digestive upsets, but far better to take tryptophan it's precursor to raise levels, not oestrogen. Stress causes more than serotonin to drop, all neurotransmitters drop, digestion slows, hormone levels drop, vitamin D drops, the amino acids drop, the immune system slows down because cortisol rises, etc. Excess oestrogen stimulates substance P, see here. Substance P causes pain and nausea. It inhibits progesterone, see here, but if enough is used, progesterone suppresses substance P, see here. "Accumulating evidence indicates that the neuropeptide substance P is predominantly involved in neurogenic inflammation and pain perception...... Intriguingly, decreased pain sensitivity is found to be associated with high plasma progesterone levels. We hypothesize that progesterone may attenuate nociception and associated inflammatory response." Continued below
May 08, 2013
 Bio identical advice needed desperately Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Sandy A lack of magnesium causes substance P to rise, see here and here. Please consider taking 800mg/day, it's the most important co-factor for vitamin D. Both Progesterone and Vitamin D prevent muscle weakness and pain, and a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. See here, here and here. This last abstract has nothing on it, so I've pasted a passage from the paper which I bought... 'Substantial relief of myopathic disability by progesterone therapy'.....
(We report about a 41-year old woman who was suffering from a general muscle weakness since her early childhood....From July 1998 until July 1999 the patient was treated with progesterone suppositorium 0.4 g once a day from the 14th to the 25th day of the menstrual cycle. In July 1999 her gait had improved significantly and she could get up from a chair more easily, even her ability to walk up and down stairs had improved....Progesterone dosage was increased from 400 mg to 600 mg. In January 2001 the patient reported enthusiastically about the improvement she had gained from progesterone-therapy. The patient reported a clear increase in strength in all affected muscle groups resulting in dramatic functional improvement.) And for vitamin D and muscle weakness see here,here, here and here. Oestrogen causes water retention which can result in blurred vision as it's changed the focal length. We also have a page on Hot Flushes you could look through. Both progesterone and vitamin D are essential for the lungs, both relax smooth muscle, whereas oestrogen constricts it, hence the gasping for air. We do have a page on Menopause you could look through too. Continued below
May 08, 2013
 Bio identical advice needed desperately Part 3
by: Wray

Hi Sandy Please have a vitamin D test done, I suspect your level is very low. It's essential for a multitude of things, not least anxiety. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray
May 08, 2013
 anxiety
by: Sandy

Thanks Wray!

I have been taking 600 magnesium citrate but will increase it immediately and I also take 5000 IU of Vitamin D3. My doctor just changed my progesterone from 100 mg capsule to a 40 mg cream. I will get tryptophan right away. I dont understand how I can have too much estrogen as I have been suffering for 3 years and when my estrogen was tested it was showing as zero. I will increase my progesterone as you suggest but I just want to confirm that I should stop the estrogen let let my level fall to zero as it was. Thanks for your help.
May 08, 2013
 estrogen
by: Sandy

I just want to confirm that I should stop the estrogen as my level will fall to zero as before. I will increase my progesterone as you suggest and switch from a capsule to a cream. Thanks again!
May 09, 2013
 anxiety and estrogen
by: Wray

Hi Sandy Please also have a test done for vitamin D, it's so important to find your level. It could be the 5000iu is not enough, it's really a maintenance dose and won't increase levels very quickly if at all. If there's pain present it means Inflammation is too, this drops vitamin D levels. In fact I've just answered a woman who said she was taking 5000iu, and had been for 5 years but her level hadn't changed at all. She was full of inflammation which explains it. Your test result said <20pg/ml which means it's not at zero, in fact it's quite high for a woman in menopause, see our page on Hormone Testing. The range varies between 0 to 30 pg/ml. It was your progesterone level which concerned me, 0.3ng/ml, mine was 0.6ng/ml and I thought I was a basket case! And don't forget it's not too much or too little of any hormone, but the ratio between the two which is important. So both could be low, but your progesterone is rock bottom compared to your oestrogen. I do hope you're going to use more than 40mg/day progesterone as that will probably only make matters worse. One thing which is overlooked by all doctors and labs is oestrone. This is the oestrogen we make during menopause, it's secreted by every fat cell we have. Not only that but oestrogen causes cells to proliferate including fat cells, so a vicious cycle starts. This is never checked, only oestradiol the pre-menopause oestrogen. Obviously this will be low as our ovaries are no longer producing it. A pre-menopausal woman makes from 30 to 400 pg/ml oestradiol, compare that to the range I gave above. Please make sure you use enough progesterone, and please have that vitamin D test done. Take care Wray
May 28, 2013
 anxiety
by: Sandy

Thanks Wray

I am seeing a new Doc that specializes in hormones and he has run bloodwork and my follow up appt is June 4th. He cut me down from 4 mg estrodiol 80/20 and prescribed 2 mg of estrodiol cream with 50 mg of progesterone in the cream. He increased my progesterone (Capsule form) from 100 to 200 SR which I have spread out to twice a day instead of both at bedtime. I am finally sleeping thru the night but am groggy during the day. He told me I need the capsule form as it passes the blood brain barrier which helps with anxiety whereas the cream will not relieve anxiety. I was feeling much better with the 4 mg of estrogen and the 100 mg of progesterone with just mild anxiety. I have been on the new amounts for 13 days and I have crippling anxiety. I have doubled my 3x a day klonopin and am taking 5 or 6 mg of xanax and worried sick of dependance. no matter how much anxiety meds I take I always have a burning in my chest that doesnt go away. Wray, I am suffering. I have been to emergency 3 times and they dont know what to do for me. My doc appears to be arrogant and I am hesitant to question his suggested amounts. I also have over the counter progesta-care but am afraid to throw off my numbers as I am scheduled for a saliva test the first week of July. Do you think the burning in my chest is safe? I had this problem as I was increasing my estrogen but it went away while at 4 mg. I calculated my ratio at 85:1 whereas you mentioned it was about twice that. my question to you is do you believe I can increase my progesterone cream and avoid or reduce the capsules? My doc insisted only capsule will reduce anxiety not cream. I am afraid he will increase my progesterone in capsule form. I now live with a splitting headache that doesnt go away. Also he said I need SOME estrogen to protect my heart and other reasons so he wants me on estrogen but a low amount. I have also been getting a weekly IV drip of 25 g vitaminc (for adrenal fatigue) and vitamin b's and magnesium and other vitamins. I am also taking probiotics and adrenal support supplements. I am terrified my hormones will cause a heart attack with the burning in my chest. I am awake now at 4:30 because my extra anxiety meds are keeping me sleeping during the day. I am desperate. This doctor appears to be the most well known in the area and as a one man office he is too busy to take calls.

Sandy
May 31, 2013
 anxiety
by: Wray

Hi Sandy You don't need more oestrogen, and 40 mg/day progesterone is only going to make matters worse. The capsules are not absorbed, please read that paper I gave you. Progesterone protects the BBB from inflammation, taking it in oral form you will not be getting sufficient. Studies have found that topically applied progesterone is as effective as injections, which used to be regarded as the most efficient delivery method. Oestrogen does not protect the heart, see our page on HRT. If you want heart protection you need vitamin D and taurine. You need to consider taking the nutrients listed on the anxiety page I gave you, one of which is taurine. You might like to read these comments on using high amounts of progesterone, see here, here and here. Take care Wray
Jul 05, 2013
 anxiety
by: Sandy

Hi Wray

To refresh I am now on 200 mg estrogen 80/20 as doc feels I need estrogen due to very poor bone density results. I also take 70 mg progesterone cream and 300 mg progesterone in capsule form. I am taking 10,000 iu of Vitamin D and amino acid supplements. I am also taking 5htp and trypyophen. I just completed a saliva test and see the doc for results in three weeks when he will also check blood and test for vit D. I read sll your pages on anxiety and most of them treat for depression but not anxiety. My doc insists that progesterone in capsule pass the blood brain barrier for anxiety but cream does not so he wants me on more capsule form plus I cant stay asleep as I wake up at 4:30 with bad anxiety. I have been weening myself very slowly off Klonopin and Xanax and my anxiety is severe. I can only sit in s chair with a back massager to distract me. My anxiety has taken over my life. the hormones have stopped the panic attacks and heart palpitations but digestive problems and anxiety are severe. I have tried every supplement you suggest but nothing seems to help. I am anxious to get updated bloodwork and saliva results but I cant the anxiety. I have had stabbing and prickling chest pain since starting bio identical hormones and now add that worry. Still having night sweats too and they always turn into an anxiety attack. I keep going to the emergency for chest pain and have had three echo stress tests and they came back normal . i am learning that even bioidentical hormones are even dangerous as Suzanne Sommers has a hysterectomy after 5 years on bio hormones. I have tried all the supplements you mention for anxiety and nothing has worked. I have noticed that 75% of my anxiety comes shortly after eating when it seems like my food isnt getting digested. I have had my glucose checked many times while in emergency as well as fasting and it comes in normal. my last blood work showed insulin < 2.0 which my doc said was good even though it was out of range on the lab results. Nothing had worked to reduce my anxiety. I am a very healthy eater salmon, sardines, almonds, bananas, no meat, no dairy, no preservatives, mostly organic and very little sugar, no caffeine and I drink organic decaf tea and cut out wheat and grains. Any other suggestions? I wish I had my updated blood work but wont have it for three weeks. Thanks again
Jul 06, 2013
 anxiety
by: Wray

Hi Sandy Yes, stop the oestrogen! It stimulates glutamate our most excitatory neurotransmitter. It doesn't surprise me you're anxious! Your brain will be misfiring if levels are high. I can't agree with your doctor, having helped thousands of women with progesterone. I can assure you the progesterone in cream form passes the blood brain barrier, it will in any form. Please take a look at the story on our Traumatic Brain Injury page. One woman rubbed the cream on her step son, who was in a coma and he recovered. He would not have done so if it had not crossed the BBB. Your anxiety will be severe weaning off those drugs. You really need to consider using 500mg/day or more progesterone. If you read those comments I gave you from users of high amounts, some went well over 1000mg/day. And to give a woman oestrogen because of poor bone density results is laughable! The bones need over 30 nutrients to grow, oestrogen is the worst thing for them, as it prevents new bone forming. See our page on Osteoporosis. Take care Wray
Jul 10, 2013
 ratio
by: Sandy

Hi Wray

I just got my saliva test results back and ZRT shows my ratio is 514:1 so I am getting my ratio up. Still following your advice on vitamin d and other advice. still have anxiety and my food wont digest. serotonin seems to be a problem. i take 50 billion of probiotics daily and suffer like i cant breathe. baking soda helps me burp and after rubbing my belly for hours i get runny stool for several hours then I get hungry and it starts all over again. i eat bananas and almonds with lots of tryptophan but nothing seems to help then after suffering for hours i get anxiety. any ideas? Endoscopy came back normal. Always wad constipated until I started on 600 mg of magnesium which cured it but now my digestive is causing me to suffer. Any advice? Still on 2 mg biest and 370 mg progesterone. Thanks
Jul 12, 2013
 ratio
by: Wray

Hi Sandy Your ratio is good, but please stop the oestrogen! I doubt your anxiety will ever go if you use that. I don't know why you say your serotonin seems a problem, what problem? The anxiety? Serotonin won't help that, see here. Bananas if ripe are full of carbs, too many can drop blood glucose which can cause anxiety. And as for it's tryptophan content, you'd have to eat kilos a day to get any tryptophan. 100g of banana contains 9mg, see here. Almonds contain 214mg per 100g of nuts. 100g is just over 3oz, do you eat that many almonds a day? Take care Wray
Feb 02, 2014
 feeling frustrated by Bi-identical homones
by: Anonymous

I fist started on the hormones about 2weeks ago 1/2 troche of estrogen & 1/2 of progestorone,,,symptoms ! I felt good for a day but a little sleepy,, few days progessivley getting worse ,, By day 5 had to go off estrogen but stay on progestorone,,, getting more tir
ed and very lathargic and no desire to do anything. Irritable swelling and tight all over my body,,,, was told to take a 1/4 progestorone and a Pill called DIM,,, to help distribute i believe the estrogen to the right places. Feeling disorientated tight all over and breathing difficulties rang them again and was told to stop medication for 4to5 days,,, still taking DIM not feeling great still puffing up and massise headaches plus very larthargic,,, iIm not a wrapp for them at all... Never felt this bad before,,, But they have stop some of the anxiousness feelings I was getting like fight to flight feelings about 10 or more times a day,
Feb 05, 2014
 Bio identicals and anxiety
by: Anonymous

Started a compounded cream rubbed on inner thigh as instructed .first day ok 2 nd day jittery mild anxiety later went to stomach pain nausea. By nighttime I felt like going to ER. I do take 50 mg of zoloft a day plus synthroid . More research needs to be done on this as I think it does not mix well with these medications.
Feb 20, 2014
 My HRT journey
by: Joanne

Been trying to get "balanced" for over 3 years. Currently on Biest 5mg and Progesterone 90mg (creams- Biest twice daily). My last estrogen level was 25 and my progesterone 1.6. I was on Biest 3mg (twice daily) before lab draw. I am feeling anxious, and depressed. I guess I need more progesterone although my NP said I was fine, just needed for estrogen. My vitamin D level has been good (around 80). Had total hysterectomy 3 years ago. Any suggestions?
May 24, 2014
 Love my bio- identical hormones
by: Anonymous

I have been on Bio identical Estrogen and progesterone for more than 6 years now and have never had a problem. Well once my doses had to be changed and a added testosterone cream I use once in a while. The lady who was having the problem might be from her other meds for sleeping and ringing in her ears. Or maybe the combo.
Jun 09, 2014
 Allergic to Estrogen & progesteron
by: Ella

hi there ..please help... I was diagnosed with Premature ovarian failure age 43. My estrogen and progesterone levels are in the range of post menopausal (really low). My gyane has presecribed the a few synthetic estrogen/progesterone HRT. Each time I had an allergic eye reaction. I have tried creams, gels, patches same story. I have now tried bioidentical estrogen cream -same eye allergy. Also on progesterone bioidnetical capsules. Same eye allergy ..Eye lids get puffed , vision gets blurred and extreme pain in eye. What do I do ?? I need to feel well , but cant because I am allergic to every HRT/BHRT.. please suggest something .We have exhasted all options
Jun 15, 2014
 Bio identical Hormones Are they safe?
by: Debbie

Hi wray,
I've been going through menopause for 6 years now terrible fatigue problems, Hypoglacemia even hasimotos throditis. I've been told by a bio identical Docter to take biest cream 1 mg 2 a day since my estrogen is only 15 . My progestorone is depleted of 0.5 I've been told my dhea is low too. He also wants me to take 30 mg of natural progestorone cream in the morning and 50 mg troche at night. 15 mg of dhea and 75 mg of dhea keto. im scard dont know what to do. My homosysteine levels are a bit high 11.3 so he says its my throid and low estrogen levels. I prefer to take iodine for my thyroid instead of any animal gladular or synthetic hormone. As far as estrogen im scard of that too but I have extreme vaginal dryness and painful intercourse with my partner. what do you suggest please?
Mar 18, 2015
 Estriol and progest.
by: Caterina

Question, I'm 46 and have just been told I'm post menopausal. My FHL was 49 and LH 36, but I had a period three months ago. I have lots of hot flashes, skip periods on and off for the past couple of years. My weight has increased in the past year 25 lbs and cant get it to move an inch. I crave sweets and have a heavy appetite.

I'm taking one pump of Estriol (20mg) and 100mg of Progest. do you think this is ok? I live in Turkey so bio identicals are a very new concept.There is only one compounding pharma. in the whole country.

I'm on my first week and the hot flashes have reduced already however I'm feeling a bit nauseous.

In addition to the bio I treatment I've been using a Estriol vaginal cream, nightly for a week. However, it seems to have given me a bit of a burning sensation when I pee. Help, please share your thoughts.
Nov 03, 2015
 Mostly a success
by: Daisy

Having had a hysterectomy at a relatively young age I was not prepared to tolerate hot flashes so I visited a medical doctor would worked with Bio-identical hormone therapy. I was very impressed with the immediate elimination of my hot flashes.

I have been on hormone therapy for over 10 years and have to say I have had no negative side effects. The benefits have been great, my skin has remained youthful, my mental acuity is great, my energy level is high and my sleep patterns are excellent.

In 2014 my doctor changed my prescription as my levels where on the low side. That turned out to be a big mistake as recently I developed this buzzing feeling in my head. I knew that it was a sign of some sort of toxicity. When I got my lab results of my hormone levels I almost fell over. My estradiol is 1935 and my testosterone is 466. Horrifically out of whack. Other than the buzzing feeling in my head I really wasn't feeling badly - just slight fatigue. Needless to say, my prescription will be changed and I will monitor my levels more closely. Even with this error I have to say overall I am very please with my therapy and will continue.
Good luck to everyone.


Feb 25, 2016
 Dosage
by: Anonymous

Hi, I am a menstruating 32 yo. With a history of chronic illness including fatigue, insomnia and PMS. My dr prescribed a starting dose of 50mg am and 50mg pm of bioidentical progesterone in trouche form every day. However due to previous illness my BMI is only around 17 currently and I'm concerned that this dose might be too high for me. On the other hand I have suffered from symptoms of estrogen dominance my whole life so I don't want to stiimulate estrogen receptors even more. Can you please advise on an appropriate dose for me? Would it be safe to start on 50mg just at night, split 50mg over am and pm, or 50mg twice daily? Many thanks for your input.
Mar 29, 2016
 Progesterone and pregnancy
by: Emily

Hi Wray! I have been following this page for quite some time and it has helped me through the years so much! I am a firm believer in progesterone! I was able to regulate my periods and get pregnant with the help of Bioidentical hormones and couldn't be more thankful. Fast forward to pregnancy... Weeks 6-17, I used progesterone cream 80mg/day divided in 40mg doses twice daily. My doctor is concerned about me possibly going into preterm labor due to a uterine abnormality and wanted me to use synthetic progesterone shots weekly as a preventative but I requested that we use Bioidentical vaginal suppositories instead. they are 100mg inserted at bedtime. I used my first, two nights ago and had a hard day yesterday with mild anxiety and depression. Wondering if it would be better to use 2 of these daily?? Once every 12 hours and that would help with symptoms?? I feel like that estrogen is rearing it's head. Look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks! To
Jan 29, 2020
 Progesterone cream at 53
by: Eileen

Hi Wray
I'm 53 and haven't had a period in 7 months. I'm scared to try the Natro progesterone cream on its own. My Menopause doc won't test my hormones in my blood test. I upped my Prozac dose as the hot flashes were so severe and they've stopped. I still have anxiety and that's the reason I'm on 7.5mg Mertazapine also at night as I couldn't eat, it was so bad. I plan to go to 20mg Prozac capsule, I'm currently taking the liquid.

I'm concerned about bones also in the future. I take Vit D, magnesium, calcium, B vits and get acupuncture weekly. The anxiety is my main symptom thats ruining my life which was previously very creative.

I'm no longer motivated and I'd happily die tomorrow then face any more of this which I fear will only get worse as I age.

Is it ok to take Natrpo without estrogen at this stage or should I wait till I'm 12 months without a period?

Eileen

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