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Am I Nuts?

by Andrea
(Kansas)

I began using 80 mg of progesterone in troche form about a week ago. 1/2 morning, 1/2 in the evening. I felt great the first night. Since then, I feel very bad. I called the compounding pharmacy this morning and she said I could take an additional 20 mg in the morning and evening. I am completely bloated, my breasts are huge, heart palps, etc..... AND RAGE. I have been reading this website in hopes of some answers and I ordered the cream today. I really hope I am doing the right thing. I have four wonderful children under the age 9, and am a complete wreck. Much worse off than when I started. My Progesterone level is .4 and my Estrogen is 70.0. When I get the cream, how long will I have these estrogen dominate effects? I am not sure which is worse now. Being on it or not being on it!! I am scared. Help!

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May 06, 2015
 Am I Nuts?
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Troches are not the best Delivery system. Please could you give me some idea of why you thought it would help you. You mention no symptoms, or Stress etc. How old is your youngest child? It's possible you have post natal depression if still very young. Your P:E2 ratio is only 6:1 which is extremely low. You probably have most of the symptoms on our Oestrogen Dominance page. Judging by your reaction you have a lot of oestrogen. So the 120mg/day you were using is evidently not enough, although some of it is lost when swallowing. But what is your Vitamin D level? A lack of this reduces the benefits of progesterone, often if levels are raised less progesterone is needed. Please have this checked before wasting money using large amounts of progesterone. We do have a few pages you could look through, How to use Progesterone Cream, Anger and Breast Tenderness. Take care Wray
May 06, 2015
 re: Am I Nuts
by: Andrea

Wow! Hello Wray. I didn't expect to actually be responded to by you! O.k. Here's the low down. Before finding out I had non-existing progesterone levels, I went to see my Family Doc for consistent cramping throughout the month, and my period was very long and drawn out (more so than ever) the past month. The constant cramping worried me. So, I went in had blood work and whalaaa! No progesterone. I am scheduled for a pelvic sono today to check for fibroid. I have a long list of symptoms that began at first menstruation when I was 15. Terrible cramping, PMs, anger and disgust for most everything the week before my periods. I have a long list of anti-depressant meds I've taken throughout the years for anxiety, and depression. My vitamin D Has intermittently been low throughout the years as well. I am 43 and with my last (4th child, I just lost all energy, patience for crying (makes me crazy), bloating (nothing new) I usually carry 5 lbs of excess water two weeks before my period,anxiety attack , heart palpitations, chest pains, hip and leg pain so bad it just aches all the time, lack of motivation, and literally no libido. I feel pretty horrible physically most of the time. I had taken prometrium 100mg in the past and slept better and felt a little better if I remember right, so I was very quick to get back on it when I found out I was low P. I chose bio troches because I thought it was a better option than the pill my doc gave me last time. I had some relief the first day or two. My eyes were lubricated (that was great!) I had somewhat of a libido etc, but had dizziness nausea, felt like I was in a dream, and then all the things I read here about E Dom. So, I asked if I could up the dose and she said yes by 20mg. I did that yesterday and felt like I needed to admit myself to the hospital!! After a few hours the effects went down substantially. I ordered your cream because knowing my doc and compounding pharmacy there is no way I am going to get the amount of P I need to ever overcome the E Dom symptoms. In your opinion am I thinking right? I am supplementing now religiously with vit d 5000 iu daily. I will order test to check levels. What dose am I going to start off with when I get the cream so that I don't have these crazy symptoms??

I bloated up so much my hands were three times their normal size!
Thanks a bunch, Andrea
May 06, 2015
 Re: Am I nuts
by: Andrea

In addition, I guess I am scared about the high estrogen levels and cancer. When looking at the 6:1 ratio of E:P it really made sense to me why I feel the way I do. I don't have a lot of faith in my OB/GYN because she says all this is just normal. My Family Doc is the one I go to for any lab work and she is open to discussion on some things, but she did mention using the pill as a way to normailze things, and I do not do well on any b.c.
I am pretty much on my own here, and have navigated through many issues such as this for a long time, ie: low vit, D levels, adrenal fatigue. I just want to feel better. If my vit. D is low, and I begin supplementing does that change the amount of P cream I use? I just don't know where to start.
Thanks,
Andrea
May 06, 2015
 no, youre not nuts, you're just estrogen dominant
by: Sue

I've been following the advice of this site and dosing according to my body's symptoms. For me that has meant 500mg a day. I've been on this dose now for about five months and decided to start slowly tapering down, reducing by about 30mg a week, and then the same amount again the following week.

Well. Almost imperceptibly I felt the symptoms start up again - sore boobs, damn sinus congestion, more fatigue, anxiety, until by the end of the second week I was back to feeling suicidal.

So, I returned to the dose I was at previously and the symptoms have decreased again. I'll stay at this level for six weeks or so and try again.

Estrogen dominance has such wide ranging effects. Glad to hear you've ordered some cream. Please take as much as your body needs :-)
May 07, 2015
 re: Am I Nuts
by: Wray

Hi Andrea You do have a string of adverse symptoms, and stretching so far back too. The progesterone should help you, but please do have your vitamin D tested, it really is so important. I've found all too often people use high amounts of progesterone, when all they needed was a higher vitamin D level, it's cheaper too! You might not find the 5000iu/day raises levels quickly enough, therefore 10,000iu would be a better option. It's impossible to tell you how much you need. It is trial and error, as Sue has pointed out, it does require experimenting, time too. But as a suggestion no less than 200mg/day. You've mentioned a few more symptoms for which we have web pages, please look through them for advice and the amount to use, Fibroids, Anxiety, Libido, Dizziness and Menstruation. At the end of this page we have a protocol for heavy bleeding which we've found works. As for Contraceptives helping to 'normalise' things……..huh? I wouldn't add further stress to yourself by worrying about Cancer. You have enough on your plate as it is. Your OB/GYN might think all those symptoms are 'normal', too many women do suffer from them so they are regarded as normal. But we do have to ask why should we put up with them! And are they normal, are they not a result of our appalling polluted planet? There isn't one animal, including humans, from the Arctic to the Antarctic, who doesn't have oestrogen mimics in their blood stream. For more info see Our Stolen Future. Take care Wray
May 07, 2015
 Am I Nuts?
by: RJ

Hello Andrea!
You did the right thing ordering Natpro. You are not nuts it's all the people around us who are...we peri women rule this world....just a funny...we have to laugh through this change. Follow Wray's advice she does know what she is talking about and in time....mind you we do not know how much time as each of us are different...you will find relief. I have used 400-1,000 mg a day non-stop for over three years. And Sue, I am not laughing at you, but you made me chuckle with the sinus remark. I too have done what you did decreasing the level and by golly if it doesn't all come back and then some and back up I go only to stay there then get level again and try it again only to increase it back up to a higher amount. Up and down we go. I do not think my body is made to take anything less than 400 mg a day as hard as I try to lower it it has a funny way of making me listen!! lol Progesterone should just be right next to the toothpaste...twice a day...morning and night LOL. Best to both of you!! Andrea hang in there the calm is just around the corner for you! God Bless! RJ
May 09, 2015
 I am not NUTS.....
by: Andrea

O.kay, here's where I am at so far. I received the cream, started with 333 mg a day. I have not received my vitamin D results back yet, but am sure I am defiecient. I am ramping the vit D up to 10,000 iu's daily, 500 mg mag, and getting back on my favorite vitamins (Dr. Wilson's Super Adrenal Stress Formula). I am completely expecting to go up to 400 mg of cream daily but thought I'd start here because it's easy to measure. I have to say Thank You to Wray and all of the women on this site. Your ups and downs in this journey made me completely realize that I am not crazy, and neither is your advice to start at high levels. Your tireless efforts to help women like me is a blessing. I feel great, and am ready for life to start. I had just resolved to thinking that this was the best it was going to get for me. I am almost giddy to see my docs reaction when I tell her about my troche experience, and how I feel now, using the cream. I am almost expecting to be laughed off, but guess what! I don't care! I plan to take her some valuable research so that maybe, just maybe in the future she can change the way she thinks about low P levels and Estrogen. I am proof people. If you want to counteract E dom symptoms, go for the high dose. The proof is on this website and many testaments to back it up. Thanks Ladies!!!!!!
Sincerely,
Not Nuts
May 11, 2015
 Not Nuts
by: Andrea

Hello!! Well, still waiting on vit D test results, and results on pelvic sono. I have been using Natpro for about 5 days now at 400 mg, and feel GREAT!!!!!!!!! I actually started I think at 333mg a day, but had some dizzyness so upped it to 400mg and have been sailing through ever since. I am so glad I read so much about the 400 mg starting point, because had I not, I wouldn't feel this good. I am amazed at all of the aspects this has improved my life. In fact shocked. Mentally feel 100%. Physically feeling good enough to start running again. Wray, thank you so much for what you have done here on this site. I am not sure where I would be right now without your tireless efforts to help women. You have really genuinely helped me. Thank you. What are your results with having compound pharmacies make a 400 mg. creme? I am just curious as my insurance covers the script, but do NOT want to go backwards in any way from where I am at now. On another note, I have not had my cycle. Should I just carry on with the creme until I see a full cycle? Or just keep on through that as well? Thx. Andrea
May 13, 2015
 I am not NUTS.....
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Bless you for listening to us all, in fact we were all 'nuts' once! I'm so delighted you're responding so well, but please remember it's not a quick fix, that there will be bumpy times. As RJ says, she varies the amount she uses hugely. It's so dependant on stress levels. Take care Wray
May 13, 2015
 Not Nuts
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Well your news just gets better and better. Compounding pharmacies make many strengths of cream, it's dependant on choosing one that suits and using the correct amount to get 400mg progesterone. Just make sure the cream has no nasties in it, and that it's very light too. Many use a heavy base which is not well absorbed, so symptoms come back. If your doctor would give you a script for progesterone cream i.e. the Natpro, would your insurance not cover that? And yes continue using the progesterone on a daily basis, through any bleeding. Certainly until you feel stable, too many women take a break as they've read we must, and then disaster strikes as they go back to square one! Take care Wray
Jun 07, 2015
 Heavy Bleeding
by: Andrea

I quit my progesterone during a week when I fell sick with what i thought was the worst flu, and then found we think I have ulcers. Anyway, I have never felt closer to death. I think part of that was being off progesterone. Since then, I went back to my 300mg dose and started my period a week later, two weeks early. I went up to 400 to stop heavy bleeding and it hasn't stopped yet. It's been 4 days. I have to admit I feel pretty bad. Major leg and hip aches, my body feels so tired. I am considering going up to 500 mg. what are your thoughts. I am thinking it is estrogen causing these issues. What are your thoughts.?
Sep 24, 2015
 How are you going, Andrea?
by: Susie

It's been a few months since you last commented here. How are things going for you now?

I'm not surprised you felt awful stopping the prog, especially as you were taking a fair bit and if you just stopped cold turkey. Are you still going with it?
Jan 25, 2016
 Andrea... going nuts!
by: fiona

wow ladies.. thank you Andrea for showing your story as so many are reading and learning.. I could not imagine having your children and all those things going on.. great for you that it seems you have found some balance.. would love to hear how you are doing!

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