Menu

Adrenal Fatigue and Progesterone

by Diane N
(Alabama, USA)

About 2 years ago (at age 38) I started to have many symptoms that something was going wrong. I suspected that from my research that I was having a thyroid issue. I was tested by my family doctor and told I was fine. Tested again by my gynecologist and again, fine. Asked to be referred to an endocrinologist and was told by him that I was fine.

I was at my wits end. I had to have my gallbladder removed a year ago and had to have an ablation done for out of control bleeding. I was so very tired, had insomnia, cold all of the time, headaches, horrible mood swings (I would scare myself) no sex drive... NONE. I was told SEVERAL times that I was getting older and had small children so of course I was going to be tired. My husband even asked me when I was going to believe that there was nothing wrong with me.

I returned to my family doctor and she referred me to the pharmacy for a 24hr saliva test. The test revealed that I had issues with my cortisol and low testosterone. The reading for my progesterone was skewed as I wasn't able to determine when my period should arrive and they had me as being post menopausal. The pharmasist suggested I take D3-10,000 units, multi vitamin, selenium (because I had thyroid antibodies), magnesium, L-theanine, DHEA, and prescribed a T3 medication for the thyroid. She suggested that I have adrenal fatigue. I began to feel a little better. Even so, I knew I was not operating at 100%.... or even 75%. She said I may need about 6 months to feel any difference. In the meantime I added pregnenolone 30 mg, flax and omega 3, vitamin E, adrenal caps, and spirulina.

I returned for another saliva test this summer and it revealed that the cortisol issue had evened out a bit, my DHEA was still far too low despite taking the supplement, AND this time it showed that my progesterone was too low so it prompted me to do some research. I found your site.

My question is: Should I be using pregnenolone with the progesterone? I had to stop the D3 because subsequent testing showed that I was toxic, even at a lower dose. Is there anything else I should be taking? I am so thankful to you for all of your knowledge and information. At 40, I should still be full of energy and vitality. I just want to make sure that I am doing this the right way.

Sincerely,
Diane N

Comments for Adrenal Fatigue and Progesterone

Click here to add your own comments

Oct 12, 2011
 Hi
by: Diane

Diane, my heart goes out to you. At 40 you should be able to feel better than this. It is not age. Do you know what your D3 level is? Wray says it should be higher than what most places tell you.
Oct 13, 2011
 Adrenal Fatigue and Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Diane As the comment below says, you should not be feeling the way you are at 40, and it certainly isn't age! Judging by the symptoms you've given, plus the heavy bleeding, you are very short of progesterone. It does start dropping from about age 35, due to the anovulatory cycles which begin around then. 400mg/day or more of progesterone stops heavy bleeding, the ablation was unnecessary. Progesterone is thermogenic, so increases temperature slightly. You could be short of tyrosine too, feeling cold is one of the signs. Tyrosine is the precursor to the two thyroid hormones, I suggest you try some, it might help. There's more info on our page Natural Antidepressants. Please avoid the DHEA, it can increase the risk of cysts and cancer, because it increases testosterone levels, see here, here, here and here. 10,000iu's of vitamin D is a good dose, and unless you'd been taking that for years, it would not cause toxicity. This only occurs when levels in the blood reach 200ng/ml, was yours this high? See here. The minimum daily should be 5000iu's per day, more if levels are low. And specialists are saying the blood level should be 70-100ng/ml, and not the 30ng/ml doctors and labs use as adequate. The thyroid needs vitamin D, and often problems with it are nothing more than a lack of this nutrient. In fact every cell needs it to function correctly. Please let me know what your level was, and for more info see the GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. This is an excellent video to watch too, see here. I've run out of space so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray
Oct 13, 2011
 Adrenal Fatigue and Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Diane I think pregnenolone is a waste of time. The body has to convert it into progesterone, but it is converted into DHEA too. I recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone, more if symptoms are severe. For more info please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. But before you consider using it, please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance first, as this often occurs. As you are 40, you might like to read our page on Peri-menopause. This normally starts 5-10 years before menopause, the average age of this is 51. Thanks for the kind words! Take care Wray
Oct 16, 2011
 Adrenal fatigue and progesterone
by: Diane N

I looked for my lab results but will have to look a little more. I remember that my results were higher than the lab suggested the first time and my doctor said to cut the dose in half. The second set of labs, about 6 weeks later were even higher. I will look more for them so I can give you a better idea.

Thank you for all of your help. I am going to look for the tyrosine today. I am really so glad that I was able to find this site. I have been on the progesterone for about 3 weeks now and I can really tell a difference. I am feeling like my moods are more calm and I am not as exhausted as I had been. I anticipate that I will be feeling even better within the next few months. I have even passed your site along to a friend of mine who has been seeking answers to her problems as well. I will let you know soon what the results of those labs were.
Oct 20, 2011
 Adrenal fatigue and progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Diane It's as I suspected, the labs use far too low a level as adequate. All based on FDA recommendations of 30ng/ml. The UK is even worse, as they use 20ng/ml as adequate! If you can't find your results, I'm sure the lab would still have a copy. It would help me to advise you, and I hope by now you've had a chance to look at the sites and papers I sent on vitamin D, these should reassure you I'm not talking nonsense. You might be interested in watching this video clip too, it's a very recent interview with Carole Baggerly who runs GrassrootsHealth, see here. I'm so delighted you are already finding benefit from the progesterone. Please don't forget about Oestrogen Dominance, unfortunately this can occur out of the blue. And bless you for passing on our site. Take care Wray
Dec 19, 2011
 tyrosine
by: Patrick

Hi Wray,

I found this link high on google but been following the pages for a while.

I have been using natpro for a good 6 months for AF and other strange hormonal symptoms, to be honest it's not quite enough, my doses have been 400 to 600 mg, I think I need to add Tyrosine because I have wired feeling, a lot of tension and low libido and breast discomfort.

is it better to take N-Acetyl Tyrosine or plain tyrosine?

I will keep taking natpro as its the best of the progesterone creams, I just wish it would have fixed me without help, or maybe I'm just a dead case.

thanks
Dec 20, 2011
 tyrosine
by: Wray

Hi Patrick I don't believe you're a dead case! Maybe you're not eating enough protein? Please can you tell me if the AF stands for atrial fibrillation? It's the only medical term I've found that fits. Dozens of other terms fit the initials. If I'm correct please consider taking taurine. It's unusual amongst the aminos as it is not bound to protein, but is found free. There's more taurine in the heart than all other aminos combined. It's a potent antioxidant, and extremely beneficial for the heart, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. One of it's chief properties is it's an osmolyte, ensuring the flow of the four electrolytes into and out of cells, see here. Magnesium is another heart calming nutrient, I've found it's possible to have sufficient magnesium in the diet, but with insufficient taurine, it cannot get into a cell. Taurine is also a potent anxiolytic, see here. Are you eating enough animal protein, as taurine is not found in the vegetable kingdom. It can be converted from cysteine and methionine, but it times of stress it becomes an essential amino, ie it needs to be ingested too. Tyrosine is one of the most important aminos, although non-essential as it can be converted from phenylalanine, it times of stress it's vital to take it too. It's the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine, and the stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. It's also the precursor to the two thyroid hormones T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine), plus melanin, the pigment found in hair and skin. It's part of the enkephalin peptide involved in regulating and reducing pain, and increasing pleasure. Lack of protein and stress lower tyrosine levels, with a subsequent reduction in dopamine and noradrenaline. Continued below.
Dec 20, 2011
 tyrosine Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Patrick A drop in dopamine increases levels of prolactin, the hormone of lactogenesis, but also an inflammatory hormone. Dopamine is essential for a normal sexual response, increased prolactin causes a drop in libido. (I'm happy to give you these papers too, but fear this answer will become too long!) Tyrosine is essential for any stressful situation, cold, fatigue, emotional trauma, prolonged work, sleep deprivation, it improves memory, cognition and physical performance, and is used for weight loss treatments. ADD patients have significantly lower levels of tyrosine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, histidine and isoleucine. Acute, uncontrollable stress depletes noradrenaline, leading to depression and a rise in corticosterone, tyrosine reverses this. The rate limiting step in dopamine synthesis is the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase. Insufficient levels of vitamin D inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase, resulting in a disturbance in the dopamine pathway. This is essential for motivation and vitality, levels rise when rewarded, resulting in feelings of pleasure. A lack of tyrosine can lead to addictions to tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, heroin and glucose. These substances raise dopamine levels. Tyrosine is used effectively for substance abuse. Please consider having a vitamin D test and taking it too. It's low in most of us, and is vital for normal cell functioning. For more info on levels, testing etc see the GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. A lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. This was discovered when doing studies on TBI victims, by adding the vitamin D it enhanced the healing by progesterone, see here, here and here. The original study was performed using over 1200mg/day progesterone via IV transfusions. Over 70% of the victims were men. Continued below.
Dec 20, 2011
 tyrosine Part 3
by: Wray

Hi Patrick See here, here and here. So the amount of progesterone you're using is very safe. If I am on the right track vis a vis the AF, you might like to read these papers on the QT interval. Oestrogen shortens it, whereas progesterone lengthens it, see here, here, here, here and here. We have more info about the aminos on our pages Natural Antidepressants and Insulin Resistance, breast discomfort on our page Man Boobs, and if you want to read comments by other men, see here. Thanks for your kind comments about the cream! Take care Wray
Dec 21, 2011
 Tyrosine
by: Patrick

AF I meant adrenal fatigue

I think one of the reason I have struggled with Progesterone cream is I didn't have enough tyrosine and potentially 5-htp for progesterone to be as effective as it can, I can rememeber applying loads and loads of cream and realising something is most cetainly missing.

i started tyrsoine but as you probably know if you have low serotonin and dopamine, taking tyrosine will reduce serotonin and make tyrosine less effective, its fair to say just on tyrosine and was starting to get wired although i knew I needed it.

I have now added 5-htp (as its works much better for me then tryptophan) but I can't take 5-htp without the tyrosine or tyrosine with the 5htp or I get adverse effects.

the progesterone really is supporting and a bit of a boost.

such a nightmare I can't put it into words, I really hope this works because it's been barely worth living so so so fatigued.

I actually use a product called travacor because it has s-htp taurine and theanine in it, all helpful, I can't take theanine on its own as it causes panic attacks.
Dec 21, 2011
 part 2
by: Patrick

Here is a link to the travacor product, its way too expensive but it is all in one, I just use now tyrosine.

the combo of 5-htp and tyrosine has been good for last few days but 100% expect everything to go wrong because thats my life these days.

I'm generally on 100mg natpro am

2 caps travacor (5htp, taurine,thenaine) 1000mg tyrsoine around 10am

1 cap travacor 1cap 500 tyrosine 1pm
50mg natpro

3caps travacor 1000mg tyrosine before dinner

2 caps travacor 1 cap tyrosine before bed and 50mg natpro

fingers crossed, as have advised i will try and add magnesium, but my vit d is ok i think had it tested.

hope you think this is all ok for now. I have a goiter a little, strangles me but thyroid test 100% perfect, I'm hoping its due to a lack of tyrosine and things will improve, very uncertain :(
Dec 22, 2011
 Tyrosine
by: Wray

Hi Patrick I should have realised the AF stood for adrenal fatigue, but the format I get the questions in doesn't give the full page of queries, only yours, so I took a guess. Are you sure you have adrenal fatigue, has anyone checked your cortisol levels? A malfunctioning thyroid also causes tiredness, so does Insulin Resistance. You say you have a slight goitre, did they check iodine levels? An easy way to find out if your level is low is to get a tincture of iodine. Put 3 drops anywhere on the inner arm, rubbing them in with the dropper. If the patch fades in a few hours it means there's a deficiency. Continue applying it until the patch takes days to fade. Alternatively have a blood test. Iodine is vital for the thyroid, so too is selenium, both these nutrients are low in our diet now. Tyrosine is of course vital for the thyroid, as a combo of this and iodine make up the two thyroid hormones. I'm finding so many people have insulin resistance, please read through this page as it could be your problem. It causes extreme fatigue, because if the cells become resistant to insulin, no glucose enters leading to tiredness. You could try MCT oil, see here, here and here. The body can use it in place of glucose, and it's not metabolised into fat, so does not get deposited in adipose cells. It's other name is caprylic/capric triglycerides. Another nutrient you could try is the amino glutamine, the brain can use this in place of glucose too. Take 4000-8000mg/day, I take about 8000mg daily. You're taking 8 caps per day of Travacor, it must be costing you a fortune! Why not buy the aminos in powder form, and take a good B complex at the same time. They particularly need B6 for metabolising. Please would you check your vitamin D levels, as they could be low, even though you were told they were normal. Specialists are now saying levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L. A lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone, plus affecting the thyroid adversely, see here, here and here. Vitamin D is needed by every cell to function normally, a low level would have an effect on the adrenals too. Have you seen Dr Wilson's website on adrenal fatigue? see here Take care Wray
Jun 13, 2013
 Need help please
by: Anonymous

Need advice please. I've had symptoms if hypothyroid for a long time,( foggy thinking/ memory cold hands& feet; weight gain) but tests always neg. I have had a lot of extreme stress over the last few years, so I also thought maybe it could be adrenal fatigue. I've taken lots of different cocktails of vitamins rec in the book "AdrenaL Fatigue". To no avail. I'm currently reading books from dr. John lee on hormones and I'm thinking this could possibly be it. I have nearly all the symptoms of estrogen dominance, so I think I' ll begin taking natural progesterone cream. I am so tired of feeling like I'm losing my mind( also angry for no reason) and so depressed a general lack of motivation & energy. I've also become very antisocial. I don't recognize myself anymore . I even tried Adderal but i still had a lack of motivation and became very aggitated.I had to quit nursing school after the first semester b/c I felt so overwhelmed ( as I often do). I just can't seem to handle stress anymore. Can I also take 5htp along with the progesterone cream? I so want to feel happy again. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Jun 13, 2013
 Need advice please
by: Jan

I have believed I have had thyroid issues for years now- memory/ foggy thinking, extreme weight gain in shirt time/ cold hands & feet, no energy & depression- and other signs) Dr. agreed and saw the weight gain over 1.5 month, but the many tests ( from him and endocrinologist) always neg. I have had a lot of extreme stress over the last few years, so I also thought maybe it could be adrenal fatigue. I've taken lots of different cocktails of vitamins rec in the book "AdrenaL Fatigue". To no avail. I'm currently reading books from dr. John lee on hormones and I'm thinking this could possibly be it. I have nearly all the symptoms of estrogen dominance, so I think I' ll begin taking natural progesterone cream. I am so tired of feeling like I'm losing my mind( also angry for no reason) and so depressed a general lack of motivation & energy. I've also become very antisocial. I don't recognize myself anymore . I even tried Adderal but i still had a lack of motivation and became very aggitated.I had to quit nursing school after the first semester b/c I felt so overwhelmed ( as I often do). I just can't seem to handle stress anymore. Can I also take 5htp along with the progesterone cream? I so want to feel happy again. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Jun 14, 2013
 Need advice please
by: Wray

Hi Jan Well your symptoms do appear to be thyroid related, but they are also caused by a lack of progesterone/excess oestrogen. Plus a lack of dopamine. If the thyroid tests are neg and the adrenal supplements haven't helped, then it's a good guess it's due to low progesterone/dopamine. We do have two pages you look good at, Anxiety and Anger. I would suggest you start on no less than 200mg/day progesterone, you might need more, only trying it can tell. There's more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. If you lack motivation your dopamine is too low. This is critical to motivation. The precursor to dopamine is tyrosine, please consider trying it. Start low on 250mg/day and increase gradually, too much can bring on the same symptoms you're trying to get rid of. Although a non-essential amino acid, tyrosine is one of the most important. It's the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine, and the stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. It's also the precursor to the two thyroid hormones T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine), plus melanin, the pigment found in hair and skin. It's part of the enkephalin peptide involved in regulating and reducing pain, and increasing pleasure. Tyrosine is essential for any stressful situation, cold, fatigue, emotional trauma, prolonged work, sleep deprivation, it improves memory, cognition and physical performance, and is used for weight loss treatments. Lack of protein and stress lower tyrosine levels, with a subsequent reduction in dopamine. Dopamine is essential for motivation and vitality, it's also essential for a normal sexual response. A drop in dopamine increases levels of prolactin, the hormone of lactogenesis, but also an inflammatory hormone. Increased prolactin causes a drop in libido. Acute, uncontrollable stress depletes dopamine, leading to depression and a rise in cortisol and prolactin, tyrosine reverses this. The rate limiting step in dopamine synthesis is the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase. Insufficient levels of vitamin D inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase, resulting in a disturbance in the dopamine pathway. The dopamine pathway requires the progesterone receptor. Please have a vitamin D test done, levels drop with stress. I don't believe you need serotonin, but dopamine. Take care Wray
Jun 28, 2013
 May Have Saved Me
by: Anne

Hi Wray...I have been reading all your comments and what you wrote about dopamine and tyrosine struck me because I have been having many bizarre symptoms over a very long span of time.

I have PCOS and hashimotos and I am on metformin as well as synthroid. I don't take the synthroid too often because it makes me loose too much weight. I also have elevated prolactin levels and have been told in the past that my progesterone is low, but it seems to have been ok on recent blood work. I don't menstruate, maybe two - three times a year, hence the metformin. I do have a significant amount of stress in my life and a few years ago went to a nutritionist who determined that my cortisol was too high in the morning. She said my adrenals were almost not functioning. I have been working to get them back in order, but since I have high stress, it is not easy. So, I think that the stress in my life (significant stress since early 2000) depleted adrenals and the hashimotos also wreaked havoc on my body. I added the tyrosine and I think that is helping with my thyroid and will get my dopamine up and prolactin levels down....thus regulating my progesterone and estrogen. In addition to the metformin, as well as regular daily vitamin, I think I am starting to make a turn for the better...for the first time in over 12 years!! Please let me know if what I said makes sense and if you think I am on the right track. Thank you!!
Jun 28, 2013
 Forgot One Thing
by: Anne

I forgot one thing...I am also severely vitamin d deficient. I am on high vitamin d supplements too.
Jun 29, 2013
 May Have Saved Me
by: Wray

Hi Anne I'm delighted you found the tyrosine info helpful, it's such an important, and I think overlooked amino. Start low though and increase gradually. You could look into iodine and selenium too, both essential for the production of T3 and T4. Progesterone also lowers Prolactin levels. If you have severely low vitamin D levels then it doesn't surprise me you have Hashi's or PCOS, it's vital for both, see here, here, here, here, here and here for Hashi's. The link I've given for PCOS has all the info and papers on it. It is possible to reverse it with nutrients, something metformin cannot do, it only treats one symptom, glucose levels. And studies have found inositol is just as effective with no side effects, see here. There's some doubt it even helps, see here. Metformin also reduces B12 levels, I do hope they advised you to take it, see here. And if your vitamin D levels are severely low by your doctors standard, then it's probably at dangerously low levels, unless he's followed the latest research. It should be a minimum of 50ng/ml, though the less conservative which I follow say 70-100ng/ml. When you say high doses, how high? It should be a minimum of 5000iu, but if severely low then you'll need 10,000 or 20,000iu to get it high quickly. And the same goes for your progesterone, if it's now normal did they look at the ratio of it to oestrogen? That's the critical factor not the actual levels. See our Saliva Tests for an idea of the ratios. Stress drops progesterone, vitamin D, the amino acids and more. It's impossible to get enough from food, as stress also slows digestion. High doses of all the nutrients are needed, particularly for PCOS. Those found in health shops are not sufficient. You will need at least 200mg/day progesterone if not more. There's info about it on the PCOS link I gave above. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Jun 30, 2013
 Thank You
by: Anne

Thank you for your follow up. My vitamin D levels were 10 or 12. I had to go on 50,000 iu of Vitamin D and my levels last checked are high 20's. Still low so I now take 8000 iu a day. I have another appointment in July so I will see if they improved. I am also trying to get out in the sun a lot more.

I am concerned because I do not menstruate and I am assuming ovulate either. The metformin was supposed to help and it did the first month but I didn't menstruate after that. I feel as if everything I try will work the first month but it is as if my body finds a way to stop menstruating. A doctor years ago said to me that my ovaries are sluggish. I am upset because I am in my late 30's and feel I lost out on all the prime years of having my body benefit from the hormones. Doctors do not seem to care. I am skeptical of them and wonder if I am not getting the due diligence of care so that I am a patient who returns (I haven noticed this tactic with multiple doctors). When I was initially diagnosed with hashimotos, the doctor did not test for vitamin d. I went to different doctor who then tested for vitamin d and found it was extremely low. I did try the myoinsitol and folic acid (pregnitude) and I didn't feel too well on it. I am handling the metformin well but feel it has stopped working. The doctor did not tell me about the vitamin b12 deficiency (go figure!), I found that out when I looked up the medication at home. I now take a supplement.
I do not know my progesterone/estrogen levels but I have read that the blood test does not provide accurate levels anyway. I do not feel that they are balanced though. I am a real mess with my symptoms and the metabolic area is so difficult to grasp. It is so complicated. I have started to feel better with the vitamin d supplements and I do notice that I feel better when I take synthroid or iodine rich foods, but nothing seems to regulate my menstrual cycle. Do you have any advice or suggestions?
Jul 04, 2013
 Thank You
by: Wray

Hi Anne The advice would be the same as I gave in my reply above. Use progesterone as indicated, and take high doses of all those nutrients listed on the PCOS page. As the studies have found it can take up to 6 months before any reversal takes place, it's not a quick fix. You should be taking a minimum of 10,000iu vitamin D, if not 20,000iu, please read that paper I gave you on the dose. It's as I suspect your vitamin D was dangerously low, it doesn't surprise me you feel better now it's rising. And keep eating the iodine rich food, or take a supplement. Take care Wray
Jul 11, 2013
 Update
by: Anne

Hi Wray,

I got the most recent blood work from my doctor and everything is in normal range. Prolactin is at the very top of normal, almost above normal, but my thyroid numbers have leveled out so I not sure why prolactin is still high.

I wanted to ask you a quick question about what to do regarding my blood sugar. I am on metformin but like you said it depletes b12 and I would like try a more natural way to reduce blood sugars. Do you have any recommendations?

I tried to find another way to email you; not sure if this is the best way to reach out. I am also willing to pay for your advice/consultation.
Jul 12, 2013
 Update
by: Wray

Hi Anne This is a good way to keep in touch. Emails are not, as I tend to leave those for days if not weeks before replying. It also means others who are struggling with similar issues will hopefully be helped too. My advice is free, no need for payment. I would like to see your results, as one thing doctors rarely look for are the ratios of progesterone to oestrogen. They might well be in range, but if oestrogen is high normal and progesterone low normal, all hell breaks loose. If your Prolactin is very high normal, it could be because your oestrogen is too high. This stimulates prolactin. A lack of protein causes it to rise, low dopamine too, this drops if stressed. There's info about this on the link I've given you. If you take all those nutrients listed on the PCOS page it will stabilise your blood glucose, and help to get ovulation going again. Take care Wray
Jul 18, 2013
 Follow Up
by: Anne

Hi Wray,

My doctor didn't check for my estrogen or progesterone levels, nor did she check for the ratio. I will ask her to check those.

As of recently, I am taking:

1.) A daily multivitamin;

2.) 8,000 iu of Vitamin D3 a day (I am also trying to get out in the sun more);

3.) 250-500 mg. of Vitamin C three times a day (morning, afternoon, and night) to help with my poor adrenal function;

4.) 350 mg. of N-Acetyl Tyrosine once a day;

5.) a Jarrow Formulas Glucose Optimizer supplement once a day (it contains: 100 mg. Vitamin C, 16 iu Vitamin E, 300 mg. Niacinamide, 5 mg. Vitamin B1, 25 mg. Vitamin B5, 5 mg. Vitamin B6, 100 mcg. Vitamin B12, 1000 mcg Biotin, 200 mg Magnesium, 1 mg Manganese, 10 mcg Selenium, 200 mcg Chromium, 750 mg Wild Bitter Melon Extract, 300 mg Gymnema sylvestre, 200 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid, 100 mg Eucalyptus Leaf Extract, 100 mg Gamma Toccopherol, 50 mg Reveratrol, and 48 mg Banaba Leaf Extract). I am taking this to help with blood sugar control instead of the metformin.

Do you think there is anything else I should take or am I taking something that I shouldn't? I am wondering if I should also take an iodine supplement but I am not sure if the L - tyrosine and selenium from the other supplements are supporting my thyroid enough already. I feel I have a little bit more energy than before, but I am still worried about the estrogen dominance as you have stated I may have due to the high prolactin levels.

Thank you for your help - you have really been such a wonderful support!

Anne
Jul 19, 2013
 Progesterone
by: Anne

Sorry, I forgot to address the progesterone. I know you suggested this but I think I am worried that if I get my cycle regulated by addressing the other issues (insulin resistance, adrenal fatigue, vitamin d deficiency, etc.) that adding the progesterone would be too much for me. If you do suggest I add it, would I get the progesterone from the doctor or from the store (some health food stores carry natural progesterone creams).

Sorry for all the posts...I just feel that you are helping me get on the right path for the first time many, many years. I hope I don't annoy others with all the posts. Thanks again.
Jul 19, 2013
 Follow Up
by: Wray

Hi Anne Everything you're taking is fine, but you do need to increase your vitamin D. It will take a long time to reach high levels on 8000iu per day. I see the Jarrow complex doesn't contain inositol, the one thing above all else you need. Please read that page I gave you on PCOS, it gives a list of nutrients you need to initiate ovulation, and reverse the condition. Blood glucose is only one aspect. T3 and T4 are not made without iodine, selenium is not a part of the hormone, although an important co-factor. Could you tell me how much progesterone you're using. Thanks for the kind words! Take care Wray
Jul 20, 2013
 Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Anne I don't mind how many times you post. Please read that page I gave you on PCOS. Progesterone is an essential part of the protocol, if you are not ovulating you won't be making any in your ovaries, our main source. Addressing the other issues you mentioned is essential too, so I'm delighted you're doing that. I think you'll find the process flows more smoothly and possibly quicker too, if you add the progesterone. But please use sufficient if you do, too little stimulates oestrogen and leads to Oestrogen Dominance. I recommend a minimum of 100mg/day, often more is needed. It's cheaper to get progesterone from a store or on line, than through a doctor who will charge for the consultancy. If in fact he/she will agree to you having it. You might like to look at the ingredients in the cream we make. Take care Wray
Jul 28, 2013
 Supplements Finalized
by: Anne

Hi Wray,

Ok, I have a supplement routine down. I started a progesterone cream (I used a coupon for my local pharmacy, but if it doesn't work out, I am going to order from you), however I am having some concerns. Below is my list of supplements:

1.) A daily multivitamin;

2.) 8,000 iu of Vitamin D3 a day (I am also trying to get out in the sun more);

3.) 500- 1,000 mg. of Vitamin C a day (500 mg. in morning and 500 mg. night) to help with my poor adrenal function;

4.) 350 mg. of N-Acetyl Tyrosine once a day;

5.) the Jarrow Formulas Glucose Optimizer supplement once a day;

6.) 600 mg. of kelp once a day (this supplement also lists the ingredients of 400 mcg. of iodine and 15 mg. of sodium);

7.) 500 mg. of inositol, once every other day (I am nervous about taking this on top of the glucose optimizer supplement as I don't know if taking 500 mg. once a day is too much);

8.) Progesterone cream (I started this a few days ago at your suggestion to begin right away as I have irregular periods. I can't determine the amount I am taking but the instructions say to put 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of cream for 14 days so I am using 1/4 teaspoon once in the morning and 1/4 teaspoon once at night. I felt well with all the other supplements but started to not feel well once I added the progesterone cream. I think you mentioned that in the beginning there can be an estrogen dominance wake up. Since starting the cream I have bad headaches, I'm more depressed and more tired, my breasts are fuller, and I can't concentrate. Is this the estrogen wake up? If so, how long does it last? Also, once I get my period, should I stop the cream until I ovulate or continue through? How long in total should I keep using the progesterone cream before my body regulates itself eg. a few months, a year? Do you think it is possible I don't need the cream and that my body will regulate the estrogen and progesterone itself with the other supplements?).

Thank you,

Anne
Jul 29, 2013
 Supplements Finalized
by: Wray

Hi Anne I would ask you to read the page on PCOS again, inositol is one of the most important nutrients. There are papers about it's affect on ovulation. Amounts of 4000mg/day are given for PCOS, so the 500mg/day won't touch sides. And up to 18g (18,000mg) per day are given to people with OCD. It will not clash with anything in the Jarrow formula. You cannot reverse PCOS by just addressing the glucose issue, it requires far more than that. You need to change your diet too, try the Ketogenic Diet. You need to reduce your testosterone level, changing your diet will help this, but progesterone is very effective. You also need NAC, info on the PCOS page. I won't be able to help you on the progesterone as I need to know how much you are using. But it appears far too low. The PCOS page explains how to use progesterone. It can take 6 months to reverse the PCOS, but it depends on many factors. All outlined on the PCOS page. Take care Wray
Aug 04, 2013
 Vitamin defeciency & Progesterone
by: Anonymous

Hello,

Could having a deficiency in vitamin b6 and magnesium affect the effectiveness of progesterone cream?

Thank you
Aug 05, 2013
 Vitamin defeciency & Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi there Indirectly magnesium could, it's the most important co-factor for vitamin D. And a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone, see here, here and here. Take care Wray
Aug 27, 2013
 Follow up
by: Anne

Hi Wray,

I followed through with the NAC and the progesterone cream...and one month ago got my period. I felt like things were finally starting to work for me. During this past month, I continued with all the supplements I stated in the last post, plus 750 mg. of NAC. I am taking about 1,000 mg of inositol now as opposed to the 500 mg. as you stated I would need more. I also have been cutting out sugar as much as possible. The thing is...I am not sure if this is a good thing. I decided to cut out the sugar because I wanted to have a more healthy diet and if I am taking all these supplements that address insulin resistance, I should try to cut out the sugar. I had a few days were I felt a little foggy, but then felt better. Unfortunately, I also started to notice more hair growth on my chin and a little bit of facial virilization. Also, although I am taking the iodine supplement regularly, I started to develop sleep apnea every night since cutting out the sugar. I know there is a link between sleep apnea and insulin resistance, and have been trying to read up on it, but can't really understand the connection. Part of me feels like staying off the sugar is the right thing to do but I wonder if it is too much to take the supplements that manage insulin resistance (inositol, jarrow supplement, NAC, progesterone cream, vitamin d) in addition to cutting out the sugar. I also started the progesterone cream a little too late (I should have taken it 14 days after my period last month) so I started it a few days ago and I am hoping that will bring on my period. I feel like when you guided me on what to take, I felt great and got my period but then I somehow messed it up. I also wonder if my body could get used to the supplements and they stop working.

So, my questions are...should I go back to eating sugar (incidently, when I was eating more sugar, I was also eating more fat) and just continue using the insulin resistance regulating supplements (I could also up the exercise as well) to control the sugar that I eat like I did before? Or should I keep cutting out the sugar and continue taking all the supplements? Should I cut out the sugar and just lower some of the insulin resistance regulating supplements?

Another thing is that I am worried about possibly losing too much weight. I have lost a little since cutting out the sugar, but I don't want to loose too much as I am 5'3 and 118 lbs.

One final question, is the NAC something that I can take periodically or should I take it every day? I notice that it makes me urinate a little bit more frequently and I am worried that it could flush out some of the good hormones when it cleans out my liver. It does get a little bit frustrating that I have to work so hard to keep my body regulated. I wish life were easier but you have been such a huge help.

Thank you,

Anne
Aug 28, 2013
 Follow up
by: Wray

Hi Anne There is nothing more damaging to the body than sugar, all sugars......fructose, sucrose and glucose. They can cause glycation, which occurs when a sugar molecule binds to a protein or lipid molecule without the control of an enzyme. This impairs the function of the molecule, leading to advanced glycation endproducts or AGEs, see here. This results in oxidative stress, see here. Which in turn leads to inflammation, see here and here. Resulting in many of our inflammatory diseases, which are the end result of long term oxidative stress. Those three sugars are found in all sweet starchy foods too, an excess of which will have the same affect. It seems as if you're to using enough progesterone you don't say how much. But if too low it will cause a rise in testosterone/oestrogen which causes facial hair growth. Why worry about loosing weight? There's a limit to how much the body can loose. The NAC you can take as and when you feel you need it. Progesterone also causes increased urination as it reduces oedema. Take care Wray
Aug 28, 2013
 Accident
by: anne

Hi Wray,

I don't mean for this to get published, but is there a way to delete my email from my most recent posting and your response? I must have somehow included my email in the name section when preparing the comment, but didn't mean to put it there.

Thank you,

Anne
Aug 28, 2013
 Accident
by: Wray

Hi Anne I've changed it and put in it's place 'Follow Up'. Take care Wray
Aug 28, 2013
 too little progesterone
by: Anonymous

Wray,

I noticed your comment about taking too little progesterone increases oestrogen and testosterone, I am only 22 and was taking up to 600 mg progesterone cream with increased testosterone the higher I went up. I know that with adrenal fatigue present, there is a pregnenolone "steal" and instead of the pathway going towards progesterone and cortisol it goes its missing that step and goes on to make adrogens.
Aug 28, 2013
 low progesterone raising osestrogen testosterone
by: Anonymous

Hello,

I was on a dose ranging from 200-600 and the higher I went the higher my testosterone went. So I do not agree with the comment that states the lower the dose the higher the testosterone because I expeierenced the opposite. Also In adrenal fatigue im aware that something called a prengnenolone steal" occurs and if this happens the progesterone pathway is disturbed and goes towards androgens hence the high testosterone is this correct? So perhaps a combination of pregnenolone and progesterone would work best?

Thank you
Aug 29, 2013
 low progesterone raising osestrogen testosterone
by: Wray

Hi there Dr Lam has an excellent overview of adrenal fatigue and hormone replacement. Although I don't agree with some things, it does explain clearly how the hormones interact. The 'pregnenolone steal' you mention, is actually the stressed adrenals using up most of the pregnenolone to make cortisol, not testosterone. This is self evident, as the stress response overrides everything else, which is why stress is so damaging. I would prefer to call it a 'progesterone steal', as the adrenal glands have to convert the pregnenolone into progesterone, which is then converted into cortisol. As he also points out, women with adrenal fatigue tend to have oestrogen dominance, simply because the progesterone is begin shunted to make cortisol. To add to the complexity, all oestrogens are made from testosterone, which in turn is made either from progesterone or DHEA. So some of the pregnenolone is converted into DHEA which allows for the production of testosterone and the oestrogens. If you have high testosterone it could be because your body is making it from DHEA. The more progesterone you're using is allowing more pregnenolone to convert to DHEA. You don't say how long you've been using the 600mg/day progesterone, but ultimately it does suppress testosterone output. If bound to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) testosterone becomes inactive, progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here. There are other things which raise testosterone levels too. SHBG drops if sugars are eaten, even those found in all grains, legumes, processed milk and sweet starchy fruits and vegetables. Fructose, sucrose and glucose, reduce SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. Thereby allowing testosterone to rise. It's best to avoid all the foods and sugars mentioned. Low SHBG is a marker for Insulin Resistance. Wine and beers contain carbs, so it's best to avoid those too. Plus alcohol affects hormone levels in women, see here and here. It decreases progesterone levels and increases androgen levels, both the total testosterone and free testosterone become higher. Sugars and large meals also drop progesterone levels, see here. Plus insulin drops levels too, see here. This means SHBG also drops and testosterone. You could try adding the pregnenolone to see if it helps. Take care Wray
Aug 29, 2013
 Adrenal Fatigue
by: Anonymous

So ultimately the only way to stop progesterone from converting to DHEA is to raise cortisol in the body via pregnenolone, at what dose with high progesterone intake?
Aug 29, 2013
 lower dhea
by: Anonymous

how do I lower dhea because I know that it is dangerous
Aug 31, 2013
 Adrenal Fatigue
by: Wray

Hi there The last thing you need to do is raise cortisol levels, unless they are low. This is normally done with hydrocortisone. And progesterone is never converted into DHEA, only pregnenolone is, see this chart by Genova Diagnostics. Why not try this and see if it helps you. You'd have to ask your doctor or the company you buy the pregnenolone from about how much to use, I know very little about it. Take care Wray
Aug 31, 2013
 lower dhea
by: Wray

Hi there DHEA isn't dangerous, it's made by the adrenals and is one of the most abundant hormones in the body. My concern stems from supplementing with it, levels can rise. As it's converted to testosterone, levels of this can rise too. It should be used with caution. Take care Wray
Aug 31, 2013
 Adrenals dhea/pregnenolone
by: Anonymous

Wray,

How does progesterone encourage pregnenolone to make more DHEA if I have adrenal fatigue and essentially low in these hormones, and only used progesterone cream on its own?
I have read that you should use low dose progesterone for adrenal fatigue for this exact reason because it converts to what you are deficient in and now I am left with very high dhea, low cortisol,excess hair, and body odour.
Aug 31, 2013
 DHEA
by: Anonymous

Also Since my DHEA levels are now high, I am taking antioxidanats like vitamin e which I was not taking while on the progesterone cream. Could lack of vitamin E have an impact on this conversion of progesterone encouraging pregnenolone to convert to dhea-testosterone.
Aug 31, 2013
 Good News
by: Anne

Thanks so much Wray.

Ok, well I missed one of the recommendations you gave a while back so I went out and bought the selenium the other day and what a difference it has made in the way I feel! I immediately felt more relaxed and calm. I also feel like I have more energy, but I still don't have the full amount of energy that I used to before all the thyroid problems started years ago. I am taking 200 mcg a day of Selenium but I don't know if this is too high because I do tend to eat a handful of walnuts at times and there might be some other foods that I eat that contain some selenium. Would the 100 mcg be better?

Also, I got my period again....so this is the first time in a very, very long time where I got my period twice in a row and it was on schedule! All the suggestions you have given me are working!

About this most recent period...I was using the progesterone cream for about 4-5 days because I missed the start time I should have begun taking it(I can't figure out how much I am using, but it is about a half a teaspoon). However, once I got my period I stopped using it. I should start again 14 days from the day I got my most recent period, right?

I do have another question about the selenium. Since selenium assists the thyroid....and I am taking the other thyroid supplements (iodine, L-tyrosine)... should I continue taking the iodine and tyrosine like I have been? Is the selenium and the other thyroid supplements going to provide too much assistance to my thyroid and overwork it or make it go hyperthryoid? Also, when I cut the sugar out as stated in my last post, I forgot to mention that I developed really dark, sunken-in circles under my eyes as well. Since adding the selenium, I have noticed the sleep apnea has gone away but I still have the circles under my eyes, although they are a little less noticable.

As far as the sugar, for some reason cutting out sugar completely messed with my thyroid but I am not sure why. What I am trying out for now is to lower the sugar intake and exercise a little bit more (when I say exercise I mean for only about 15 minutes a day for now....I don't have much energy still but I am hoping to get up to 30 min. a day). I have also stopped taking the Jarrow supplement for now, but will add it back in if needed, and I now just take 2-3 inositol a day. Do you think that is a good plan or have any suggestions/recommendations?

Thanks again,

Anne
Sep 01, 2013
 Thanks so much Wray
by: Wray

Hi Anne You were evidently low in selenium, I would stick with the 200mcg for now. You are having to buy so many vitamins etc, why not just get our PCOS complex, I'm sure you'd find it easier and cheaper too. I still don't know how much progesterone you're using. And I don't know your cycle length so can't advise you when to start it. If you're short of iodine, which most are, and obviously short in selenium, and probably tyrosine, why do you think it will all cause you to become hyperthyroid. Why think about something like that before it even begins. Selenium is a potent antioxidant needed for many more things than the thyroid. The same applies to iodine and tyrosine. Sugar is poison, just remember that. You were only going through a detox from it. And vitamin D, are you taking it and how much? Take care Wray
Sep 01, 2013
 Adrenals dhea/pregnenolone
by: Wray

Hi there I would ask you to read Dr Lam's info, he goes into hormones and adrenal stress in great detail. Something I haven't the time to do. Take care Wray
Sep 06, 2013
 Follow Up
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,

I couldn't find the PCOS vitamins on the site. That is great you offer those. I will check them out. When I finish this bottle of progesterone cream, I will buy the cream from you so perhaps you can help me regulate how much to take. The bottle I have has about two more cycles worth left, I think. It is a large bottle.

I forgot to mention the Vitamin D...I am now taking 10,000 iu a day, per your recommendation. Perhaps when the winter comes, I might need more so if you think I should take more, please let me know what you recommend.

Regarding the sugar, I don't eat that much sugar to begin with...I usually have a handful of strawberries or raspberries at night plus a handful of chocolate chips. That is it as far as major sugar. I might have a dessert after dinner if I eat out but that is rare these days. I am also trying to incorporate more fats per the diet you recommended.

As far as my thyroid, I am worried about pushing it into hyperthyroid because with my Hashimotos, I started out as hyper and lost a lot of weight without trying. I have always eaten normally but people thought I was anorexic, when I wasn't. I eventually gained weight when I went hypo and I felt more comfortable with the weight on because people stopped saying I looked ill and making comments about me. I am very worried about taking too many thyroid support supplements and perhaps in combination with eating foods high in iodine that would push me back to hyper. That is why I am concerned about all the thyroid supplements.
When I was on synthroid, I went into hyper very easily which is one of the reasons I went off that med...besides the fact it just didn't work for me. I have difficulty balancing my thyroid. I think because no doctors were able to help me or understand what was going on with me, that my body just become very messed up metabolically. You have helped me more than all the doctors combined and trust me I have seen the best of the best doctors. One top notch repo endo told me back in 2006 that he felt my body was low on dopamine...but did nothing about it. He also knew my prolactin was high and did nothing about it. All doctors wanted to do was put me on birth control to regulate my menstrual cycle and hormones, but I wanted to address the root causes. He was a nice man but he failed to help me. I didn't know then that I could take control and search for help on my own. All this has been going on since late 1990's so if I am a little too much it is because for 15 of my prime hormone years I was a total mess. My body was a mess and it made my life a mess. I am now trying to get myself together and you have been instrumental in that.

Anne
Sep 10, 2013
 Follow Up
by: Wray

Hi Anne Thanks so much for the kind words. I've just checked the PCOS complex, and see we do have it in stock. It often runs out before we can replenish it. Of course I can help you with the progesterone, I feel you'll need about 200mg/day to start with. I'm delighted you've upped your vitamin D, but please don't forget to have a test done in about 3 months to check your level. In some in goes up quickly, but in others very slowly or not at all. It so much depends on what other problems the body has which need correcting. Don't forget to take about 250mg/day magnesium too, it's the most important co-factor for vitamin D. No you don't eat much sugar, but it does come in fruit too, although low in the two you mentioned above. I can understand your concern about your thyroid now. Swinging from hyper to hypo does not make for good health, or a calm mind! As the selenium made such a difference I would continue with that. If you're worried about the tyrosine, start off very low, about 100mg/day. You'll probably have to split a capsule up to do that though. See how you get on with it, increasing gradually as you see fit. If you still have high Prolactin I feel you will need more tyrosine but far better to increase it slowly. Too much and you will become hyper again. The progesterone should help, as it suppresses excess oestrogen which causes prolactin to rise. And the same for the iodine too, increase that slowly. Please keep in touch. Take care Wray
Sep 10, 2013
 Porgesterone,Testosterone,body odour,
by: Anonymous

While I was on progesterone my testosterone increased, So I Stopped it after stopping it I am left with the high testosterone, and body odour.

Please help explain this
Sep 11, 2013
 Porgesterone,Testosterone,body odour
by: Wray

Hi there I would have to know how much progesterone you used, but it appears to be a very small amount. Each month women make more testosterone than oestrogen, but most of it is converted to oestrogen by the enzyme aromatase. This also occurs in men too, but to a far lesser extent. When first starting progesterone, or using too little it stimulates testosterone production, followed by it's conversion to oestrogen. I tend to leave out the conversion process when answering women, and just say it's stimulates oestrogen, as most of them know about Oestrogen Dominance. But high testosterone also causes severe PMS. If bound to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) testosterone becomes inactive, progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone and severe PMS. You'll notice the high amounts used in the study, 1200mg/day progesterone. It also causes visceral fat to increase, which causes weight gain on the abdomen, see here and here. Plus heart disease and cancer in women too. It would appear your aromatase is not sufficient to convert the testosterone, has anyone checked this? High amounts of progesterone will suppress the testosterone by increasing levels of SHBG. It might be an idea for now to avoid all foods high in carbs, i.e. all grains, legumes, processed milk and sweet starchy fruits and vegetables. Fructose, sucrose and glucose, reduce SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. Thereby allowing testosterone to rise. And to avoid alcohol as it affects hormone levels in women, see here and here. It decreases progesterone levels and increases androgen levels, both the total testosterone and free testosterone become higher. Once your level has come down you should be able to eat and drink these again. The androgen steroids, especially 5-alpha androstenol and 5-alpha androstenone are causing the body odour. These androgens are pheromones found in human sweat glands and urine. I feel once your levels have dropped this should pass. Take care Wray
Sep 15, 2013
 Quick Question
by: Anne

Hi Wray, I have a quick question. Out of all the supplements I am taking for my thyroid (iodine, selenium, and tyrosine), which is most likely to provide the most assistance to my thyroid? Is there any one supplement that works more effectively than the other and should I continue taking all three?

Thank you,

Anne
Sep 18, 2013
 Quick Question
by: Wray

Hi Anne It's not a question of which is more effective, all three are essential for making the two thyroid hormones. If one is missing this simply won't happen. If one is in short supply, it will compromise the conversion. It's best to take all three until such time as you feel it's working. It could be you need to take them always, or you might get enough from your food, once your levels are high. Take care Wray
Oct 04, 2013
 New Issue
by: Anne

Hi Wray,

I have a new issue. I have been taking the progesterone cream the last 14 days of my cycle and for the past 3 months have been getting my period on time (yay!) but I am not getting my period for very long. I got my period two days ago and it lasted for one day (maybe one and a half days). The cycle before I got my period for three days. Am I doing something wrong to get such a short time? Is it something that will take time to adjust? I am concerned because the cycle before I had my period for three days, this time it was one day. If it were the other way around, I wouldn't be as concerned. Thank you.

Anne
Oct 09, 2013
 New Issue
by: Wray

Hi Anne Progesterone does suppress oestrogen. Oestrogen causes the lining of the uterus to build up. If it's suppressed there will be less lining to shed. So I don't think it's of any concern. Take care Wray
Oct 30, 2013
 Fourth Month of Progress
by: Anne

Hi Wray,

I got my period this month on time and it is the fourth month that I have had a normal and on-time period. I am amazed at how my body is normalizing thanks to your suggestions.

I do have some questions. I wanted to see if I would get my period this month without the progesterone supplements and I did, but earlier in the month I had started taking Chlorophyll(1 tablespoon a day) as I was having pain near my liver and read that Chlorophyll is a good thing to take. I don't know if the Chlorophyll would have anything to do with helping me get my period without the aid of the progesterone and I wanted to hear your thoughts on this supplement and if you feel that I should continue the progesterone. Although I got my period without the progesterone, I did notice I was experiencing feelings of adrenal fatigue such as going to bed later and waking up later, feeling more run down and tired. Also, that pesky sleep apnea returned. On the other hand, I noticed a significant decrease of hair growth on my chin. I stopped the Chlorophyll to see if it was causing the sleep apnea and while the sleep apnea has reduced, it has not gone away completely. All other supplements were the same this month except I eliminated the progesterone and added the Chlorophyll.

Otherwise, things seem to be amazingly on track. I can't remember the last time I ever got my period four months in row and on time!!

Thank you.

Anne
Nov 03, 2013
 Fourth Month of Progress
by: Wray

Hi Anne Very pleased things are selling down. Chlorophyl does detox us, but I can’t see how it would influence our hormones, other than aiding the liver to get rid of the oestrogen. I do hope everything continues to keep on track. Take care Wray
Dec 14, 2013
 Revision of Supplements
by: Anne

Hi Wray,

I have had a bit of a setback because I messed with my thyroid supplements. I didn't get my period on my own this last month. I had to add the progesterone again so now I am out and I will be ordering that from you.

I feel I can't get my supplements back on track. I am still taking the 10,000 iu of vitamin D per day, 1 or 2 grams of Vitamin C a day, the chewable multivitamin, 200 mg. of Selenium, and 500 mg. of inositol.

I was taking the Gaia Thyroid supplement but felt it was dependent on too many herbs. I tried taking the Kelp supplement (which has 400 mcg. of iodine, 15 mg. of sodium, and 600mg. of kelp) but still felt very tired and sluggish on that. I started supplementing with my synthroid again (25 mg. a day) but don't know if taking the synthroid and/or the kelp or Gaia supplements would be too much. I was also taking the L-tyrosine (350mg), but when doing some research online found that taking this on top of the iodine/kelp supplements can push towards hyperthyroid. So, I guess my question is what should I take out of the kelp/Gaia/synthroid. Is L-tyrosine necessary to take if I am also taking supplements for my thyroid and/or synthroid?

I have also looked into taking an extra B-complex vitamin on top of all that I am taking because I read that with hashimotos someone can also have a B-12 deficiency. I found a good supplement by Country Life called Coenzyme B-Complex Caps (the B-12 is in form of methylcobalamin). I don't know if this B complex supplement on top of the mulit-vitaimn.

One more thing...I went to get a refill of the inositol and the person at the health food store told me I should try the inositol with choline together. It has 250mg. of each and I am suppose to take this twice a day. Is choline good to take?

I feel I was on a good regimine in late summer early fall - my weight was good, I felt good, but I was just a little too sluggish after a while so that is why I decided to play around with the supplements. Now, I feel I am pushing over to hyperthyroid but I don't know what I am taking too much of or what I really don't need to be taking. Any advice you have would be helpful. Thank you.
Oct 24, 2016
 HELP
by: Anonymous Y

Hi you lovely ladies. It's encouraging to know that am not Alone and lonely.

Been so confused with the hormonal imbalance theory especially that I have suffered both fatigue symptoms and premenopausal symptoms.

I am not privileged to have Drs as specialised as you so most is based on guess work and my own personal study.

The Drs brush off the perimenopause theory and say YOU are not menopausal as my cycle still exist. So I am stuck!!!!!

Memory. foggyhead. Concentration problems. Balancing. Dizzy spells. Joint pains. Procrastination. Headaches. Insomnia. #Just don't feel like. exhaustion and fatigue.

I have not worked for 6 weeks.

Done all the tests including brain scans

Am tempted to self diagnose and try progesterone cream. But how much?

HELP !!!!!
Oct 25, 2016
 Help
by: Joy

Hi Anonymous Y

That’s the beauty of forums such as these, we can all share and compare and take from it what we think will suit us best. Most of us who are on this forum do not have much faith in our medical professions and have decided to take matters into our own hands, myself included.

Advice given to you by doctors about Peri-Menopause/Menopause doesn’t surprise me, just shows you just how little they care. I bet most of those doctors are men, how would they know how a women feels?? All they have to do is a little research, try to find some compassion and then they would be able to help us all greatly, but I guess they prefer to side and support the drug companies and we all know why.

All the symptoms that you are describing are crying out Estrogen Dominance, your hormones need to be balanced and your electrolytes need attention. Personally I have found this Adrenal Fatigue Cocktail brilliant, it certainly worked for me and hundreds of others.

Adrenal Fatigue "Cocktail"

Take the following 1-2 times/day an hour before or after food. Do NOT use this first thing in the morning. This cocktail will nourish the adrenals when needed.

One application:
• 4oz/125ml freshly squeezed Orange Juice – the vitamin C makes sure that the minerals noted below get to the liver to nourish the adrenals
• 1/4 tsp of Cream of Tartar - this is an excellent source of Potassium
• 1/4 tsp of fresh ground Himalayan Sea Salt - this is an excellent source of Sodium and other minerals

Mix the above at the start of the day with enough liquid for two (2) applications i.e. 8oz/125ml of orange juice. Drink it mid-morning, as well as mid-afternoon. In addition, any time that you are feeling particularly anxious it would be advisable to prepare another mixture and take it.

Please note: For those who have blood sugar problems, use lemon juice mixed with a little water, you are looking for the vitamin C.

Progesterone therapy is a no brainer as far as I am concerned, been using it for 14 years every day with no breaks and I will never stop using it. Please consider trying it and I would say nothing less than 200mg per day and see how you get on with that. You may need to use more, it all depends on how much excess estrogen you have. Progesterone needs to become the dominant hormone before you feel its benefits. Right now, estrogen is the dominant hormones making you feel lousy.

What is your Vitamin D3 level? A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone and is connected to every single functioning cell in our body making it vital.

Please read these pages and all the references

How to use Progesterone Cream
Estrogen Dominance
Peri-Menopause
Menopause
Progesterone Cream
Vitamin D3
Magnesium
Jun 26, 2017
 Progesterone Cream Dose and Adrenal Fatigue
by: Anonymously 47!

Thanks to this web site I decided to use progesterone cream roughly 1 year ago. Why? Estrogen dominance symptoms (palpitations, mood swings, irregular periods, heavy bleeding). Gave me my life back.

Started with Pro-Gest (20mg/day) and now using another product by Dr. Platt which is 5% or 2 x 50mg/day. Since starting higher dose I've not had my period in 2 months. Prior was having every 28-35 days with 2 missed cycles last year. Back to Dr. Platt product, while it made me happier than I've ever been, a new "problem" cropped up recently. Extreme fatigue and difficulty waking in the morning or classic low cortisol in the morning, higher in late evening. So, off to the internet...and voila...Dr. Lam! His opinion is that if your adrenals are "brittle" (or weak) progesterone cream especially at higher doses can make matters worse where cortisol is concerned. Can anyone offer perspective here?

47 and peri-menopausal..and afraid of losing my job/income due to fatigue, and now more stressed than ever since reading what Dr. Lam had to say.
Aug 16, 2018
 Thyroid and Hormone imbalance
by: sailaja

TSH =7.6
Have lots of PMS and fibroids. Tried taking adrenal fatigue medications+B vitamins+omega3+vitamin D 5000+Estro clear and oil pulling + progesterone cream, but the progesterone cream gave me lots of breast tenderness and few other symptoms.

I want to clear my fibroids and naturally heal my thyroid and get adrenal fatigue normal.

I do get lots of PMS no matter what I do, it's 10 days before my period they start.
Oct 20, 2018
 Adrenal Fatigue & Progesterone Cream....Is it enough?
by: Anonymous

I'm a 46 year old and am perimenopausal. I am on 200mg a day cream plus dim, vitex, adrenal rebuilder, enzogenol,melatonin, vitd3, micronutrients, cofactors and the NAC you recommend.

I got results from my Dutch Test Complete that my pathways are not functioning at par, my melatonin is low, cortisol is in the low range without much of a peak.

Is there anything else recommended to help this or is what I'm doing enough and will simply take time? I wonder if I'm on the correct route. I've been told to stay away from the adrenal rebuilder by dr wilson because it could make my hormones go haywire and push me into estrogendominance more so due to its building hormones and my body adjusting to the ratios coming in. Is this true? I'm just exhausted so I don't really care in one since and do for another reason especially if all gets prolonged!

Thanks in advance for all you ladies do.

Amy
Oct 22, 2018
 Adrenal Fatigue & Progesterone Cream....Is it enough?
by: Joy

Adrenal Fatigue & Progesterone Cream....Is it enough?

Hi Amy

Wray has given good advice on adrenal fatigue and progesterone on this post. Progesterone therapy does take time. You could try using a little more progesterone to see if that helps. If you are taking DIM to help with your estrogen dominance symptoms rather try calcium d-glucarate, many have found better results by taking it. Unfortunately vitex won't increase progesterone levels, and could increase estrogen as it has estrogenic properties.

I do not know anything about the adrenal re-builder, so can't comment on that.
Apr 29, 2021
 Progesterone protocols for estrogen dominance and adrenal fatigue
by: Anonymous

Hello all,

I'm so happy to have found this site!
I just started using progesterone cream 3 days ago and the difference! Wow!
I have adrenal fatigue and estrogen dominance.

How long should I be taking progesterone and how much?
I've read you should use it from day 12-26 of your cycle if you're still getting cycles and trying to get pregnant. I don't know how that should change if I have adrenal fatigue and estrogen dominance. I am using the progesterone cream morning and night 25 MG and I am having a great response. Should I be using it every day?
I am 37 and wanting to get pregnant. I have created a protocol of supplements and healthy eating/lifestyle that has drastically improved my health. However I just started on the progesterone and it has improved even more.

I have PMS every month. I have insomnia unless I am taking and doing all the right things. I still have anxiety daily but it has dropped since I started progesterone, calcium d glucarate and p5p.
I have severe methylation genetic mutations which is the main cause of my adrenal fatigue and estrogen dominance and that makes me wonder if I should continue the progesterone throughout my cycle as managing these issues is a daily thing for me?

Now that I am writing this out I am thinking I should be taking the progesterone all the time, not just during the latter parts of my cycle but should I adjust how much I take based on my cycle?

Thank you so much!
May 01, 2021
 Progesterone protocols for estrogen dominance and adrenal fatigue
by: Joy

Hi there

I would say WOW right back at you. It is not often, in fact rather unusual for someone to feel the difference after 3 days, that is awesome.

Wray has explained this topic in detail on this post, please take the time to read her comments as well as the references. Progesterone therapy is a life long commitment, the moment you stop, adverse symptoms return. As mentioned, between 100-200mg is needed, more if symptoms are severe. The How to use Progesterone Cream page explains exactly how to use progesterone. If you have a regular cycle, progesterone should be used during your luteal phase. The chart on this page explains when to use depending on what your cycle days are.

If you are TTC then progesterone needs to be used by following your regular cycle (luteal phase). I always suggest that progesterone should be used every day until adverse symptoms clear or improve and one becomes stable again. This can take time while the body adjusts to progesterone therapy. Once stable enough, use the cream by following your cycle. I would suggest that you do this. You might also like to read the Pregnancy page.

Have you dealt with your AF? If not, please consider trying the Adrenal Fatigue Cocktail that I have posted further up on this thread.

Click here to add your own comments

Join in and write your own page! It's easy to do. How? Simply click here to return to Progesterone faq.

Share this page:
Find this page helpful? Please tell others. Here's how...

Would you prefer to share this page with others by linking to it?

  1. Click on the HTML link code below.
  2. Copy and paste it, adding a note of your own, into your blog, a Web page, forums, a blog comment, your Facebook account, or anywhere that someone would find this page valuable.

Search over 8,400 pages on this site...